Citywing
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North Flying don't have a reservation system so whilst Citywing can't stop them flying, someone is needed to sell tickets.
I think you've missed the point runway30 ...
The route doesn't belong to either North Flying nor Citywing, the route belongs to Van Air who appointed Citywing as a mere ticket seller and, just recently, Van Air have been sub-chartering North Flying to operate the route upon behalf of Van Air.
Van Air haven't folded, haven't called in a liquidator, and being banned from UK airspace if they can't afford to continue sub-chartering other operator(s) to operate the route upon their behalf then they, Van Air, are the ones that should be making any announcement, and talking to WAG, not Citywing who are a mere ticket seller.
I wonder how the WAG subsidy works, if Van Air have been paid in advance, I know that if I were WAG I would be studying any contract fine print regarding breach of contract or whatever.
Last edited by Harry Wayfarers; 11th Mar 2017 at 02:14.
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Ding dong the witch is dead.
It adds that Citywing has tried to offer a service while suffering considerable losses but these have proved to be commercially unsustainable. In other words, we are shutting up shop before it gets to expensive. Fear not islanders, ManxWing will be along soon with no debt, liabilities and a clean sheet ready to fly in a few weeks.
It adds that Citywing has tried to offer a service while suffering considerable losses but these have proved to be commercially unsustainable. In other words, we are shutting up shop before it gets to expensive. Fear not islanders, ManxWing will be along soon with no debt, liabilities and a clean sheet ready to fly in a few weeks.
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 11th Mar 2017 at 08:27.
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In other words, we are shutting up shop before it gets to expensive.
For all the disparaging of Citywing on this forum I don't see many others putting their money forward in an effort to 'do it properly'. Starting an airline in the UK is horrifically expensive and for thin routes contracting-out flying may well be the only option.
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Oh dear. I can't believe I wrote 'to' instead of 'too'. Oh the humanity. Mucho embarrassed.
Back to Manx2 2.0, it is true that airlines are very expensive to set up. It has been over two decades without a UK based airline having a passenger fatality on a scheduled service. Not a bad record and long may it continue. The only deaths have occurred have been where those victims bought tickets from this ticket seller. A deadly crash, then once they rose from the dead another one of their contractors gets grounded.
Good riddance to a failed business model and a huge leap forward for passengers safety within the UK and the IOM.
Back to Manx2 2.0, it is true that airlines are very expensive to set up. It has been over two decades without a UK based airline having a passenger fatality on a scheduled service. Not a bad record and long may it continue. The only deaths have occurred have been where those victims bought tickets from this ticket seller. A deadly crash, then once they rose from the dead another one of their contractors gets grounded.
Good riddance to a failed business model and a huge leap forward for passengers safety within the UK and the IOM.
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 11th Mar 2017 at 10:10.
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North Flying don't have a reservation system so whilst Citywing can't stop them flying, someone is needed to sell tickets.
As for all other routes, time to get the swimmies, fins and goggles out.
Trivia: Three UK airports have today lost their sole/last remaining scheduled service: Anglesey, Blackpool and Gloucester.
Last edited by virginblue; 11th Mar 2017 at 10:24.
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Could Eastern extend their NCL-CWL flights and fly a W pattern for the PSO route? Timings won't be great granted but it'll be more cost effective than having an entire aircraft based in CEL just to fly two return trips a day.
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based airline having a passenger fatality on a scheduled service
Well done for totally misquoting me. The fact of the matter is that a ticketed passenger on a scheduled service operated by a UK airline has not suffered a fatality in over two decades.
A Manx based ticket seller killed six. But keep telling us about how safe they are now rhay that have folded since their contracting carrier has been grounded.
Well done for totally misquoting me. The fact of the matter is that a ticketed passenger on a scheduled service operated by a UK airline has not suffered a fatality in over two decades.
A Manx based ticket seller killed six. But keep telling us about how safe they are now rhay that have folded since their contracting carrier has been grounded.
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Well done for totally misquoting me. The fact of the matter is that a ticketed passenger on a scheduled service operated by a UK airline has not suffered a fatality in over two decades.
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Get T3 on the route. PSO CWL-VLY with the existing NCL flights already being flown by the existing schedule. The based aircraft can then fit in a midday NCL to further poach NCL bound passengers from BRS and launch LBA ... Winning ! May have to cap the capacity on the J41 to 19 seats mind.
With people losing their jobs, it's never a great thing to see but this sham of an operation needs to be put to bed now. The CAA seems to have done well with doing just that, and Citywing must have no confidence in Van Air getting their license back from the CAA hence the folding of this sham.
If this were to resurface as Manx2 v3.0 then i'm sure the CAA would be in there once again to sort it out.
Begs the question, why isn't there an airline in the UK doing these services if Van Air and the likes seem to do pretty decently out of it ? Citywing are merely a ticket seller, a concept which the BBC seems to have failed to grasp. I guess T3 are the only small aircraft scheduled operator left in the UK in addition to Loganair.
Anyone fancy setting up an airline and creaming some WG money for CWL-VLY ?
With people losing their jobs, it's never a great thing to see but this sham of an operation needs to be put to bed now. The CAA seems to have done well with doing just that, and Citywing must have no confidence in Van Air getting their license back from the CAA hence the folding of this sham.
If this were to resurface as Manx2 v3.0 then i'm sure the CAA would be in there once again to sort it out.
Begs the question, why isn't there an airline in the UK doing these services if Van Air and the likes seem to do pretty decently out of it ? Citywing are merely a ticket seller, a concept which the BBC seems to have failed to grasp. I guess T3 are the only small aircraft scheduled operator left in the UK in addition to Loganair.
Anyone fancy setting up an airline and creaming some WG money for CWL-VLY ?
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Just been reading about the Manx2 crash. Is outrageous that they "got off with it"; to me it is clear that they crossed the line into operating an airline (the thing that clinches it for me is that the airline didn't know who was flying their plane). IMHO even if that wasn't illegal when they did it, it should have been made so afterwards to stop it happening again.
It also looks like there should be a common European Regulator. Can the Spanish / Czech authorities effectively regulate operations on a small island in the middle of nowhere, nowhere near and virtually inaccessible from their countries? Of course they can't :-(
It also looks like there should be a common European Regulator. Can the Spanish / Czech authorities effectively regulate operations on a small island in the middle of nowhere, nowhere near and virtually inaccessible from their countries? Of course they can't :-(
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Begs the question, why isn't there an airline in the UK doing these services if Van Air and the likes seem to do pretty decently out of it ? Citywing are merely a ticket seller, a concept which the BBC seems to have failed to grasp. I guess T3 are the only small aircraft scheduled operator left in the UK in addition to Loganair.
A Manx based ticket seller killed six. But keep telling us about how safe they are now rhay that have folded since their contracting carrier has been grounded.
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And how many more passengers have properly regulatated UK airlines carried compared to said Manx ticket seller?
Sorry, but if your arguement is on a technicality or if you have to go back 30 years in history then you really don't have much of an arguement do you? Why stop at 30? Why not completely prove me wrong and show me up by showing stats over the last 50 years or 70 years?
Huge advances have been made over the last 30 years and it's been 22 years since KnightAir. That's 22 years without a ticketed passenger death on a UK passenger airline vs. a fatal crash and a grounding by the CAA.
Not the same, not by a long shot. Manx2 and Manx2 the Sequal are gone. Let's hope they don't come back from the dead. This is a tremendous win for passenger safety.
Sorry, but if your arguement is on a technicality or if you have to go back 30 years in history then you really don't have much of an arguement do you? Why stop at 30? Why not completely prove me wrong and show me up by showing stats over the last 50 years or 70 years?
Huge advances have been made over the last 30 years and it's been 22 years since KnightAir. That's 22 years without a ticketed passenger death on a UK passenger airline vs. a fatal crash and a grounding by the CAA.
Not the same, not by a long shot. Manx2 and Manx2 the Sequal are gone. Let's hope they don't come back from the dead. This is a tremendous win for passenger safety.
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 11th Mar 2017 at 13:41.
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The point is that any statistic on the safety of a specific airline is moot because of the overall low number of incidents. Because of that, any new incident turns the previous results pretty much upside down (just think Malaysian Airlines). That is the reason why everybody with some knowledge about statistics is always mildly amused when the annual "airline safety" articles are published.
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The annual airline safety award published by Geoffrey Thomas which always names Qantas as #1 is published to keep him in the Chairman's Lounge and nothing else.
You have a very valid point. Malaysia will likely forever have a reputation as being unsafe as statistically, they probably due to the two crashes, but I'd fly them tomorrow. They're a real airline, they are accountable, if I'm killed my family know whose door to knock on.
This is not the same as a ticket seller masquerading as an airline. It's branding says airline. It's name says airline. It's name is on check in desks. It's name is painted on the side of planes. It's website it like any other airline. They even did the rostering for flight 7100.
It wants to be an airline without the hassle and investment of being an airline and when things go t^ts up they were quick to walk away and say 'we were just the ticket seller', Flightline BCN were the bad guys. They killed your loved on. Oh, and then shut up shop mysterious soon after then appearing with the exact same heavily criticised setup, same management, same airlines operating service (minus Flightline BCN) but with a different name.
I apologise if I seem overly harsh and I'm sorry for anyone who has lost their job, but life is very precious. It cannot be risked by some two bob outfit who runs like an airline but seemingly without the vast amounts of safety systems that a real airline has. If you want to be seen as a real airline, then you need to put the same effort into safety as a real airline. Manx2 and Citywing have had a decade to get things right. They've continued to get it wrong and it is only fair that they be shut down.
You have a very valid point. Malaysia will likely forever have a reputation as being unsafe as statistically, they probably due to the two crashes, but I'd fly them tomorrow. They're a real airline, they are accountable, if I'm killed my family know whose door to knock on.
This is not the same as a ticket seller masquerading as an airline. It's branding says airline. It's name says airline. It's name is on check in desks. It's name is painted on the side of planes. It's website it like any other airline. They even did the rostering for flight 7100.
It wants to be an airline without the hassle and investment of being an airline and when things go t^ts up they were quick to walk away and say 'we were just the ticket seller', Flightline BCN were the bad guys. They killed your loved on. Oh, and then shut up shop mysterious soon after then appearing with the exact same heavily criticised setup, same management, same airlines operating service (minus Flightline BCN) but with a different name.
I apologise if I seem overly harsh and I'm sorry for anyone who has lost their job, but life is very precious. It cannot be risked by some two bob outfit who runs like an airline but seemingly without the vast amounts of safety systems that a real airline has. If you want to be seen as a real airline, then you need to put the same effort into safety as a real airline. Manx2 and Citywing have had a decade to get things right. They've continued to get it wrong and it is only fair that they be shut down.
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The reason for the ticket seller getting an exemption from ATOL regulations is that the passenger at the point of booking gets a ticket on a named airline. If the ticket seller goes out of business the passenger should still be able to turn up for their flight.
However, this ticket seller has gone out of business, the airlines instantly vanish and the passengers don't know where their money is.
This shows how much this was an abuse of the intention of the regulations and how badly the regulations were written to allow this to happen.
However, this ticket seller has gone out of business, the airlines instantly vanish and the passengers don't know where their money is.
This shows how much this was an abuse of the intention of the regulations and how badly the regulations were written to allow this to happen.
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They even did the rostering for flight 7100.
Particularly after the ORK incident I would have expected that they improve themselves, keep their image squeaky clean, to ensure of no repercussion, It's not as if they can say "But we didn't know about Storm Doris"!
If that is true, that Manx2 were doing the crew scheduling, then surely an inspector should have questioned them with some pretty basic Spanish FTL questions which should have dumbfounded them ... unless they were outside the jurisdiction of any airline regulatory authority!
Were I a ticket seller then, admittedly with my background, I would be my own Quality Manager checking that things were being operated legally ... But then I may have fellow workers/management telling me that I could do whatever I liked as long as it didn't impact upon the bank balance.
If just some of what I have been reading is true then good riddance to Manx2, Citywing or whatever they may be calling themselves next week and I'm still curious what the UK CAA were doing in IOM on that fateful day, I wonder if that story may ever be heard!