BIRMINGHAM - 6
Nigel.
I am not going to enter into a slanging match over things that you, quite rightly say, I am not in possession of the full fact on, however:-
I don't KNOW - as someone who has spent many years in business, I merely "feel sure" that there will be penalty clauses in place. Some profess to "know" I am merely conjecting!
Again, I'm no expert, however, without this starting to read like Gardeners Question Time, my soil is still extremely wet - it depends not on what the topsoil is like, but how much water is retained in the subsoil. I don't think the two months of slightly below average rainfall will make up for the December to February deluge!
Did BHX make such an "admission" to airlines? Were you, or was anybody actually at a meeting in which these assertions were made? My information, albeit second hand, is that the new date, in the most recent NOTAMs - 14.5.14, may well be improved upon - but we'll see.
The delay in the commissioning of the the runway extension and associated works is frustrating, I am sure to the contractors, who will want to get paid and move on, to the airport and it's operators - but seemingly, most of all to enthusiasts?! Whatever, BHX has a long way to go to reach the levels of apparent incompetence before it even starts to compete with Berlin!
I am not going to enter into a slanging match over things that you, quite rightly say, I am not in possession of the full fact on, however:-
I feel sure that the airport has robust penalty clauses in place
We had 3 months of heavy rain and floods but also over 2 months of dry weather.
but the day after BHX had to admit to airlines they now have no idea when the runway extension will open
The delay in the commissioning of the the runway extension and associated works is frustrating, I am sure to the contractors, who will want to get paid and move on, to the airport and it's operators - but seemingly, most of all to enthusiasts?! Whatever, BHX has a long way to go to reach the levels of apparent incompetence before it even starts to compete with Berlin!
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It depends on what is scheduled at the time when the weather related event takes place, earthworks will be most impacted in the event of snow or ice.
Rain should normally not make as much of an impact unless it is sustained, tends to be more of a productivity issue. It will definitely slow things down a bit unless flooding has occurred in the vicinity. From contracts I've been involved in it is unusual for more than a couple of weeks to be lost over the course of long term construction contracts (remember good weather can accelerate delivery). Anybody have access to weather station data for the area over the last few months?
All contracts I've ever come across will have 'average' weather related events built into the schedule so, unless its 'extraordinary' (i.e. 1 in 50 events) it should not impact the works schedule.
I'd wager that the delays are probably not weather related, or at least certainly not the overriding issue at play here.
Rain should normally not make as much of an impact unless it is sustained, tends to be more of a productivity issue. It will definitely slow things down a bit unless flooding has occurred in the vicinity. From contracts I've been involved in it is unusual for more than a couple of weeks to be lost over the course of long term construction contracts (remember good weather can accelerate delivery). Anybody have access to weather station data for the area over the last few months?
All contracts I've ever come across will have 'average' weather related events built into the schedule so, unless its 'extraordinary' (i.e. 1 in 50 events) it should not impact the works schedule.
I'd wager that the delays are probably not weather related, or at least certainly not the overriding issue at play here.
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Runway
Notices to Airmen | NOTAMS | Birmingham Intl Airport | Birmingham, United Kingdom | EGBB
More Runway closures in May albeit in the middle of night and for short periods but things are obviously amiss. CAT 1 ILS 15 only now showing to 23 May and same with the 33 restrictions.
I too am sceptical of the weather as the sole factor here but a press release from the airport or Contractor might stop all the speculation but at the end of the day it seems the project failed to deliver on time but as Nigel as said it doesn't seem to have affected the operating airlines adversely.
I arrived back from Florence last Friday (circa 85 pax on the 175!) in what looked like a monsoon and when we were on final approach and no sight of the ground I though whether we would get in due to the restrictions but we did although there were overshoots earlier in the day but nothing diverted I believe.
Note the runway distances are still in force until 14 May and has not been put back further.
Pete
More Runway closures in May albeit in the middle of night and for short periods but things are obviously amiss. CAT 1 ILS 15 only now showing to 23 May and same with the 33 restrictions.
I too am sceptical of the weather as the sole factor here but a press release from the airport or Contractor might stop all the speculation but at the end of the day it seems the project failed to deliver on time but as Nigel as said it doesn't seem to have affected the operating airlines adversely.
I arrived back from Florence last Friday (circa 85 pax on the 175!) in what looked like a monsoon and when we were on final approach and no sight of the ground I though whether we would get in due to the restrictions but we did although there were overshoots earlier in the day but nothing diverted I believe.
Note the runway distances are still in force until 14 May and has not been put back further.
Pete
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Can anyone tell me how many based units MON have at BHX and how many routes they operate from the airport?
Cheers
Cheers
Plus "w" pattern on the Gibraltar run with an A320 based at Luton
Currently the Monarch web site are marketing 36 scheduled and charter routes from Birmingham, however Grenoble is a winter ski route so that's 35 currently and mostly to the usual summer sun prospects.
Highlights include longer sectors such as Hurgharda and Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt whilst city services include Rome, Bordeaux and Venice.
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Runway
So when was the runway extension supposed to have opened?
Do any of you have a feel for when it will now open? - are we
talking weeks or months before it is finished? - going to be
embarrassing if not ready for the first China flight
Elmdon
Do any of you have a feel for when it will now open? - are we
talking weeks or months before it is finished? - going to be
embarrassing if not ready for the first China flight
Elmdon
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Monarch/Runway
EZYA319
Just to add a bit more to what rutankrd has stated, eventually it will be nine based from the end of the month. I believe on the Monarch thread the spit was said to be 7 x A321 and 2 x A320, which could be correct although a couple of days I have checked I found the seat-maps to show 6 x A321 and 3 x A320 but up to the last minute in 2013 it was showing 5 and 4 in favour of the A321 and it ended up 5 A320's.
So whether it is 6 or 7 still an increase in seats.
Early May varies with Monday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday seeing 8 based in the morning and 7 the rest of week.
The number of destinations for ZB in summer are 26 plus 6 Monarch charter (CFU, JSI, RHO, KVA, ZTE, PVK) and there are still two Bordeaux flights left at the end of May before it restarts and ends within a week and of course Grenoble in winter.
Elmdon Heath
Who knows as there hasn't been an official announcement of the delay just NOTAMS indicating 14 May and feedback from BHX workers quoting the same date.
Pete
Just to add a bit more to what rutankrd has stated, eventually it will be nine based from the end of the month. I believe on the Monarch thread the spit was said to be 7 x A321 and 2 x A320, which could be correct although a couple of days I have checked I found the seat-maps to show 6 x A321 and 3 x A320 but up to the last minute in 2013 it was showing 5 and 4 in favour of the A321 and it ended up 5 A320's.
So whether it is 6 or 7 still an increase in seats.
Early May varies with Monday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday seeing 8 based in the morning and 7 the rest of week.
The number of destinations for ZB in summer are 26 plus 6 Monarch charter (CFU, JSI, RHO, KVA, ZTE, PVK) and there are still two Bordeaux flights left at the end of May before it restarts and ends within a week and of course Grenoble in winter.
Elmdon Heath
Who knows as there hasn't been an official announcement of the delay just NOTAMS indicating 14 May and feedback from BHX workers quoting the same date.
Pete
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OltonPete - thanks for that - sounds encouraging - I got the
impression from Nigel's earlier comments that they were weeks
behind with no indication of a completion date and the whole
thing was turning into a major embarrassment
Will the extra night closures have effected the April pax?
Elmdon
impression from Nigel's earlier comments that they were weeks
behind with no indication of a completion date and the whole
thing was turning into a major embarrassment
Will the extra night closures have effected the April pax?
Elmdon
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Elmdon Heath
Don't forget there are two aspects to this with the extension and the resurfacing.
As Nigel has stated the resurfacing is waaaaay behind and there will be winter night closures 2014-15.
With the extension I am not sure and I have only assumed that it is looking good for the 14th due to the lack of press release announcing a further delay and that the NOTAM dated 2 May shows that the current runway distances are in force until 14 May but this still could get pushed back.
As for the April passenger figure, the night closures had little affect as most had re-scheduled and after 5 April the runway only closed after the last Monarch or Thomson flight had landed and that was between midnight and 2am depending on the night. Some flights were lost to weather but nothing too significant.
April should show a big increase as will most UK airports due to Easter falling late this year and subsequently a lot of flights starting earlier than they would normally do.
The only question in my mind is if it will be a record April with the target 716965 (April 2009). I haven't done my "back of a fag packet" estimate for April but if I get time I will try to do one.
Last year was 650154 which I believe will be well beaten by April 2014. In fact April 2013 was actually below 2003 and 700000 has been breached on four occasions since.
Pete
Don't forget there are two aspects to this with the extension and the resurfacing.
As Nigel has stated the resurfacing is waaaaay behind and there will be winter night closures 2014-15.
With the extension I am not sure and I have only assumed that it is looking good for the 14th due to the lack of press release announcing a further delay and that the NOTAM dated 2 May shows that the current runway distances are in force until 14 May but this still could get pushed back.
As for the April passenger figure, the night closures had little affect as most had re-scheduled and after 5 April the runway only closed after the last Monarch or Thomson flight had landed and that was between midnight and 2am depending on the night. Some flights were lost to weather but nothing too significant.
April should show a big increase as will most UK airports due to Easter falling late this year and subsequently a lot of flights starting earlier than they would normally do.
The only question in my mind is if it will be a record April with the target 716965 (April 2009). I haven't done my "back of a fag packet" estimate for April but if I get time I will try to do one.
Last year was 650154 which I believe will be well beaten by April 2014. In fact April 2013 was actually below 2003 and 700000 has been breached on four occasions since.
Pete
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the night closures had little affect as most had re-scheduled and after 5 April the runway only closed after the last Monarch or Thomson flight had landed and that was between midnight and 2am depending on the night.
And there's not a lot you can do in 4-5 hours, bearing in mind that you have to set up the worksite, do the work, ensure that the runway is safe for operation, break down the worksite, sweep and inspect the runway and have it ready.
If they've been waiting for off-schedule movements before starting out, no wonder they are behind.
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Suzeman
Up to 5th April the runway was closed 23.00-06.00 except Sat & Sun and after that I believe it was agreed it would close after the last scheduled flight.
I have checked a local SBS log and it indicates that all the scheduled movements from 6 April until 30 April arrived on time although on the night of the 23rd a Thomson arrived at 03.05.
The early hours of Wednesday and Friday had the Monarch Sharm inbound at 02.10 but most other nights it was 01.00-01.30 and nothing of note was late.
Therefore it seems the contractors got the runway as arranged. Over the winter there were a couple of extensions beyond 23.00 but equally a couple of times the runway was handed back late causing one or two diverts (United & Fed Ex).
Pete
Up to 5th April the runway was closed 23.00-06.00 except Sat & Sun and after that I believe it was agreed it would close after the last scheduled flight.
I have checked a local SBS log and it indicates that all the scheduled movements from 6 April until 30 April arrived on time although on the night of the 23rd a Thomson arrived at 03.05.
The early hours of Wednesday and Friday had the Monarch Sharm inbound at 02.10 but most other nights it was 01.00-01.30 and nothing of note was late.
Therefore it seems the contractors got the runway as arranged. Over the winter there were a couple of extensions beyond 23.00 but equally a couple of times the runway was handed back late causing one or two diverts (United & Fed Ex).
Pete
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Suzeman,
No reason for counter claims from the contractor as the work was supposed to be completed at the end of March in the first place.
Were these closure times based on the scheduled times or the actuals? Not very good if you have to wait for an off schedule movement and have resources hanging around. Good reason for counter claims from the contractor.
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Thanks OltenPete for the figures. Most nights then seem to have been quite short - 4-5 hours. As I said earlier there are lots of preliminaries and clearing up to do however long the period - so not much time to work. But I assume the contractor agreed to all this.
Jenny -If only it was so simple. Have you ever worked on contract claims? Probably employs more people than on the rest of a project put together. 
There will probably be lots of claims on either side, which happens on any of these large infrastructure projects.
Looks like the Contractors were granted an extension to the contract as it ran on beyond March - that is quite possible bearing in mind any unforseen delays eg weather, resources, etc during the life of the contract and there will be clauses covering this. It depends what the terms of the extension were.
Claims sometimes only get resolved some time after the thing is finished - and at great expense as m'learned friends often get involved
No reason for counter claims from the contractor as the work was supposed to be completed at the end of March in the first place.
There will probably be lots of claims on either side, which happens on any of these large infrastructure projects.Looks like the Contractors were granted an extension to the contract as it ran on beyond March - that is quite possible bearing in mind any unforseen delays eg weather, resources, etc during the life of the contract and there will be clauses covering this. It depends what the terms of the extension were.
Claims sometimes only get resolved some time after the thing is finished - and at great expense as m'learned friends often get involved
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Does anybody have any info on the old hangars, H1 & H2? There was a suggestion that these hangars were to be demolished now that Flybe are no longer using them to make more room on the Elmdon apron. If these hangars are demolished, I guess a new hangar would have to be built for the Police ASU who currently use the small hangar on the end attached to the former Flybe hangars
FC
FC
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Runway Extension Edge lighting ?
Just our of curosity: looking at the AIS airfield layout PDF and recent photo's of the extension looking North West up Rwy 33 from the physical end of the concreate by the white edge line (on a Photo log web site)
I have noticed that although the extension segment of runway between Echo and Sierra does have centerline lighting fitted from taxiway S to the extension line up point and centreline lighting as needed for CATII/CAT III Operations, there appears to be no white[Edit: Sorry it can be Orange/Red] runway edge lighting fitted along this segment as yet.
Obviously It might be one of the things to be done before the extension becomes operational or is there an operational reason for this ? - I see that some of the 33 Calvert approach lighting is embedded along this part of runway because of the displaced 33 threshold.
Does this mean that the extension can be used only during promulgated daylight hours and also seperatly during CAT II/III 15 Ops; only exits via taxiway Echo would be allowed ?
CAT III
I have noticed that although the extension segment of runway between Echo and Sierra does have centerline lighting fitted from taxiway S to the extension line up point and centreline lighting as needed for CATII/CAT III Operations, there appears to be no white[Edit: Sorry it can be Orange/Red] runway edge lighting fitted along this segment as yet.
Obviously It might be one of the things to be done before the extension becomes operational or is there an operational reason for this ? - I see that some of the 33 Calvert approach lighting is embedded along this part of runway because of the displaced 33 threshold.
Does this mean that the extension can be used only during promulgated daylight hours and also seperatly during CAT II/III 15 Ops; only exits via taxiway Echo would be allowed ?
CAT III
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Fried Chicken - Hangars 1 & 2 will be due for demolition some time. When exactly who knows , the main problem is they have asbestos and the removal of such is expensive and the land they currently sit on is not needed in the immediate future.
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Friedchicken,
Last I heard from someone who works on the Elmdon side of the airport was that the closest hangar to the old tower is due to be demolished first, but as Getonnit says no date has been mentioned.
The other hangar is slightly newer and some work was done on it by Fly Be so may stay up a bit longer.
Unless they are in a dangerous state of repair doubt they will come down that quickly, unless BHX has a company already lined up that want to use the space left.
This as its very expensive to remove asbestos.
BHX do continue to look for opportunities to make revenue, so perhaps they can pull a rabbit out the hat as they did with the Monarch Hangar.
Nigel
Last I heard from someone who works on the Elmdon side of the airport was that the closest hangar to the old tower is due to be demolished first, but as Getonnit says no date has been mentioned.
The other hangar is slightly newer and some work was done on it by Fly Be so may stay up a bit longer.
Unless they are in a dangerous state of repair doubt they will come down that quickly, unless BHX has a company already lined up that want to use the space left.
This as its very expensive to remove asbestos.
BHX do continue to look for opportunities to make revenue, so perhaps they can pull a rabbit out the hat as they did with the Monarch Hangar.
Nigel
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Elmdonheath,
Re runway closures and runway extension opening, sadly the opening date has been put back yet again until at least the 1st June
Latest NOTAMS below;
TWY SIERRA CLSD. RWY 33 DEPARTURES WILL BE AS PUBLISHED FROM TWY ECHO WITH NO BACKTRACK. 09 MAY 12:14 2014 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2014. CREATED: 09 MAY 12:16 2014
RWY 15 DECLARED DISTANCES REDUCED AS FOLLOWS: ALPHA: TORA 2569M TODA 2672M ASDA 2569M LDA 2279M BRAVO: TORA 2014M TODA 2117M ASDA 2014M LIMA: TORA 1006M TODA 1109M ASDA 1006M GOLF TORA 786M TODA 889M ASDA 786M ALL AIRCRAFT MUST VACATE RWY 15 VIA TWY ECHO. 09 MAY 12:01 2014 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2014. CREATED: 09 MAY 12:04 2014
C2411/14
Luckily theres no airline that needs the extension at present, as long as its open by mid July for the first China Southern charters.
Am also hearing from one of the handling companies that they have been advised the runway resurfacing that restarts in November, is now expected to extend into January 2015 and CAT 3 will not be available during that time.
However I cannot find anything in writing verifying this so treat as rumour at this stage.
Nigel
Re runway closures and runway extension opening, sadly the opening date has been put back yet again until at least the 1st June
Latest NOTAMS below;
TWY SIERRA CLSD. RWY 33 DEPARTURES WILL BE AS PUBLISHED FROM TWY ECHO WITH NO BACKTRACK. 09 MAY 12:14 2014 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2014. CREATED: 09 MAY 12:16 2014
RWY 15 DECLARED DISTANCES REDUCED AS FOLLOWS: ALPHA: TORA 2569M TODA 2672M ASDA 2569M LDA 2279M BRAVO: TORA 2014M TODA 2117M ASDA 2014M LIMA: TORA 1006M TODA 1109M ASDA 1006M GOLF TORA 786M TODA 889M ASDA 786M ALL AIRCRAFT MUST VACATE RWY 15 VIA TWY ECHO. 09 MAY 12:01 2014 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2014. CREATED: 09 MAY 12:04 2014
C2411/14
Luckily theres no airline that needs the extension at present, as long as its open by mid July for the first China Southern charters.
Am also hearing from one of the handling companies that they have been advised the runway resurfacing that restarts in November, is now expected to extend into January 2015 and CAT 3 will not be available during that time.
However I cannot find anything in writing verifying this so treat as rumour at this stage.
Nigel