SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning

[vulcanised]

Does it not occur to LTNman that the train operators might be looking at putting on additional services to serve the early/late flights?

[Captinbirdseye]

LTNman. You raise some good points but they are very generic with every airport. Not just SEN. I think your what your forgetting SEN hasn't really kicked off yet! So public transport links will be minimal at the moment. Another positive point is that SEN offers relatively cheap onsite parking. Best to judge in a year or two when ops are being ramped up fully how the transport infrastructure will csupply the demand!

[Captinbirdseye]

On another note! If I had an early morning charter flight to any airport myself and the other 200 pax would probably choose another method of transport as opposed to the train! So don't fret there wont be loads families at Liverpool street with there Thomson holidays luggage tags all upset that there train don't depart until 5:30!

[Buster the Bear]

Barnaby, I realise all of that, but without seamless CAS and easyJet demanding release directly into the TMA, flying out of Southend without full Class D is spicy! Just ask Air SouthWest (if they were available to speak) how many close calls their weekly service into Oxford had! They pulled the route after one season! Or their insurers did?

A lack of radar hindered their operation whereas Southend will have H24 coverage.

TAG are desperate for CAS around Farnborough and rightly so. The sooner Southend gets permanent CAS the better.

[LN-KGL]

Well, the public transport share to and from UK airports varies a lot. In the 2010 CAA Airport Survey for 12 English airports the public share was as follows:
London City = 52.4%
Stansted = 47.8%
Gatwick = 40.4%
Heathrow = 39.2%
Luton = 32.8%
Birmingham = 24.9%
Liverpool = 17.9%
Manchester = 13.6%
East Midlands = 8.7%
Doncaster = 8.5%
Leeds Bradford = 6.5%
Humberside = 0.5%

The three best in Europe the same year had the following public share:
Oslo, Norway = 67%
Zurich, Switzerland = 59%
Copenhagen, Denmark = 57%
All three of these European airports are sitting on top of a hight speed rail link in to the city centre, and with a travel time of only 11 to 19 minutes.

I've flown to and/or from all the twelve English airport (and Southend too), and it's not without reason that these low public transports shares exists. For example, to give the railway service from Liverpool Street to Stansted the name Stansted Express is an insult - 46 minutes to cover only 37 miles. With at least 9 more minutes to reach Southend Airport and that with only 2 miles more than to Stansted, I don't think the train link will be a winner. I think you may struggle to reach 10% for the railway use at Southend. I hope the onsite parking is large enough.

[johnnychips]

Well, the public transport share

LCY seems remarkable... does 'public transport' include taxis?

[Barnaby the Bear]

The sooner Southend gets permanent CAS the better.

Agreed Buster.. It wont happen over night, but thats not to say the operation wont be successful and safe until that point.

LN-KGL- Sadly to call any rail service in this country 'Express' is an insult. But around 50 mins to the City (less to Stratford) isnt bad..... But more parking being constructed as we speak.

[easyflyer83]

OltonPete - the aircraft is in for a paint job, it's covered in yellow patch repairs on the skin. I don't know if it's coming out all white or back into the easyJet c/s because as it stands the aircraft has no seats installed, making me think it maybe be an end of lease job.

G-EZEZ was sat on the ramp today and flew SEN-LGW, this aircraft came out with a slightly different colour scheme, with the easyJet titles on the side only coming up to the overwing exits, maybe this a/c will also be leaving the fleet, who knows..

Any pics of G-EZEZ? Would be interesting to see whether this is a 'tweak' to the livery.

I know Easy are looking at new seats aswell.

[LN-KGL]

LN-KGL- Sadly to call any rail service in this country 'Express' is an insult.

I've had my share over the years and I started already in 1983. There is one rail service that can be called express on British soil and that is the Eurostar. My only trip with Eurostar was on 17 May 2010 - the last day of the Icelandic ash. I had be back in Norway on the 18th and the only possible routing from Humberside was to drive all the way down to Kent and Ashford to catch Eurostar to Brussels and to continue with SAS BRU-CPH-OSL. Of course it was a different price for this routing compared with the scheduled and cancelled KLM flight home via AMS on the 16th. It might have become more expensive - a powerful Audi A4 and the fine motorways in Kent is dangerous combination, but lucky enough the Police that passed me in the outer lane had a more pressing matter ahead

[Expressflight]

Yes, I believe taxis are included within the definition of 'public transport' in that context.

[NorthSouth]

Buster the Bear:

Just ask Air SouthWest (if they were available to speak) how many close calls their weekly service into Oxford had!

No need. Just look at the Airprox reports. And please don't tell me there are lots that weren't reported as airproxes. If it was unsafe or even potentially unsafe then it's the pilot's (or ATCO's) responsibility to report it.
NS

[NorthSouth]

I've just checked. There were no airproxes involving Air Southwest DHC8s to/from Oxford in the period they were operating the service - 11 Jul - 12 Sep 2009.
NS

[Phileas Fogg]

Apparently not very much occurs to LTNman ...

That SEN has a significantly better weather record than just about any other airport in the LON area, that just because LTN has a 'M' designated highway close to it ... well I'd much prefer to travel the quieter A127 any day/time of the week, oh and, of course, LTN is another of the great British invention of building an airfield on top of a hill ..... need I go on?

And I'm just about as far away as it is possible to get from LTN/SEN so I'm hardly biased, merely factual.

[mikkie4]

flights now available to the u.s.a from SEN £436.00 rtn in june,on the aer lingus web site

[LTNman]

Phileas Foggy

Apparently not very much occurs to LTNman ...

That SEN has a significantly better weather record than just about any other airport in the LON area

It needs to be with only a CAT 1 approach.

Apparently not much occurs to Phileas Foggy.

Luton CAT 3B ILS both ends = RVR 50m
Southend CAT 1 both ends= RVR 550m.

Might be wrong here but was it not the case a few days ago that Aer Arran had to divert due weather with a RVR of 900m as the cloud base was below 200ft which is required for a CAT 1 approach?

[EGPFlyer]

LTNman, just to clarify a few things,

Luton's absolute minima for cat IIIB is 75m, not 50m

Southend's Cat I minima is,at the moment, 750m on one end and 1000m on the other due to incomplete approach lighting

Cloudbase is irrelevant when it comes to Cat I operations. Only RVR counts.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote:
"Well, the public transport share to and from UK airports varies a lot. In the 2010 CAA Airport Survey for 12 English airports the public share was as follows:
London City = 52.4%
Stansted = 47.8%
Gatwick = 40.4%
Heathrow = 39.2%
Luton = 32.8%
Birmingham = 24.9%
Liverpool = 17.9%
Manchester = 13.6%
East Midlands = 8.7%
Doncaster = 8.5%
Leeds Bradford = 6.5%
Humberside = 0.5%

Surprised that the public transport figure for Manchester-Ringway is so low considering that there are so many rail destinations available to/from the airport station.

Ditto for Birmingham-Elmdon considering the main line station is adjacant to the terminal.

Interesting that the 5 "London" airports are top of this list.
Quote:
"The three best in Europe the same year had the following public share:
Oslo, Norway = 67%
Zurich, Switzerland = 59%
Copenhagen, Denmark = 57%
All three of these European airports are sitting on top of a hight speed rail link in to the city centre, and with a travel time of only 11 to 19 minutes."

This is not comparing like with like. Try comparing the big conurbations:
LHR/LGW/LCY/LTN/STN with ORY/CDG, JFK/LGA/EWR, or DME/SVO/VKO.

[LTNman]

Cloudbase is irrelevant when it comes to Cat I operations. Only RVR counts.

This then is what Southend should end up with when the lighting is finished. Info from Wikipedia

Category 1, Decision Height (above threshold) 200ft RVR limit 550 m or 2400 ft (1200 ft is approved at some airports)[3] Visibility 800 m.

I am getting confused with cloudbase and decision hight

[LN-KGL]

Surprised that the public transport figure for Manchester-Ringway is so low considering that there are so many rail destinations available to/from the airport station.

I'm not surprised. Manchester area is the place in the UK that is the most like America. The huge Trafford Centre is almost a blueprint of an American mall and the only way to reach it is by car. The Manchester Airport website isn't like the Southend website, with an easy link to the current train timetable. MAG plc has just released a CSR report, and the only thing mentioned about public transport is that the Metrolink will arrive in 2016. To get enough parking space for cars at MAN, they had to reduce the apron area. The result is a reduced capasity for diversions.

I have traveled regularly to MAN the last 8 years and never has public transport been a viable option for me. I have always been a regular customer at AVIS and in three weeks I'm again at the upper level of the multi storey car parking.

This is not comparing like with like.

I don't aree with you there. All three top performers are among the top 20 European airports (only LHR and LGW are larger than the threesome in UK). To make it even worse for these three, the population density is significantly lower compared with London.
- Greater London population density = 12,773/sq mi
- Greater Manchester population density = 5,220/sq mi
- Oslo metro population density = 420/sq mi
- Canton of Zurich population density = 2,100/sq mi
- Copenhagen metro population density = 1,650/sq mi

The city with the lowest metro population of the three, Canton of Zurich with 1.371 million citizens, has almost an identical population number with Merseyside (1.365 million), but there is a significant difference - Merseyside is over 2.5 times more dense than Zurich. It's all down to urban planning, or more correctly for Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham - the lack of planning.

[pwalhx]

I have to disagree over the train service to Manchester, I use it every time I fly from Manchester which is about once a month at least. The TPE express service is well priced and an excellent service. The time from the airport to Piccadilly station is 10-15 minutes with either no stop or occasionally I have stopped at Heald Green. And for me an hour or less from Huddersfield. Anyway sorry for thread drift.