BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[CaptJ]

Aer Lingus move

Some of you have far too much faith in BBC Journalism.

Most of the articles on air travel are gleaned from this very forum.

Aer Lingus is sadly in big trouble.
BA want their business back and easyjet is in a rare expansionist mood at BFS.
Willy Walsh has made it all very clear. BA want to operate BA metal, not codeshare, and they want connecting passengers to fill their new long-haul services. Which is why BHD-LHR will move to T5 next year.
So if Aer Lingus try to move the LHR flights to BHD, they likely will lose the codeshare, on top of going up against an airline whose product they can't match.

Moving to BHD won't solve Aer Lingus' problems and unfortunately just create another, different set. Potentially they can go up against Flybe, but here is the benefit of that? many Flybe destinations are marginal as it stands. No new routes and esyjet will just fight back from BFS driving yields ever lower.

Crucially, there will be no net benefit to the travelling public.

A Lufthansa link to Germany, now there's a benefit.

CaptJ

[GAZMO]

Would have to agree
Currently seven BA flights to LHR. Certainly the timings are not perfect EI has a 7.15 flight to LHR and BA a7.35. Likewise in the evening there is only 20 mins between late evening flight back to BHD
Currently that's is ten flights per day, far too many in my opinion to LHR especially when ezy announces new early morning flights to their London destinations
It
IF BA are serious about a link up with EI on LHR it would better if BA did four rotations and EI four. I think EI, when they move will regret it as BFS will cover them except LHR

[GAZMO]

Would make more sense if EIR came to BFS to offer some routes that BEE offer.
After baby moved to BHD we heard that there was going to be a robust response from BEE. As we know it was a damp squib response, maybe this time if EIR/EI do go to BHD then BEE will move some aircraft to BFS and offer SOU, CWL, DUN, ABZ and INV and Exter

[Jamie2k9]

People on here realy need to see the bigger pricture as to why EI would consider moving to BHO and the majority of people here don't have a clue about avation and how it works. The majority think its all about the airports and what they offer when thats only a samll part. There is much more to it.

CaptJ
BA have just as much to lose as EI if the codeshare finished....Its not all about Belfast-LHR market.

[stab3.5up]

is the ba bhd lhr two class c y same as frm dub??

[onyxcrowle]

See its clear the whole story about EI moving was false . The announcement next week never happened . Perhaps it's time to move on

[BHD2BFS]

There will be an announcement there is no doubt, but maybe just not from EI at BHD, but if there has been a price war between the 2 airports maybe bfs has won? Maybe a new deal for EI to launch new routes at bfs for a good price?

[dog in park]

Then why is Jamie off to BHD?

[keep_er_lit]

Capt j - please explain why EI are in big trouble??

Yes there is alot of speculation around their future base in NI. However they do quite well on all routes at BFS and have quite a niche market and customer base that return time after time. EI is profitable in BFS and if they do move to BHD it will be a risk but one that may/may not pay off and we just have to wait and see what happens.

As for EI bring in trouble....I don't agree with your statement.

[EI-BUD]

Would make more sense if EIR came to BFS to offer some routes that BEE offer.
After baby moved to BHD we heard that there was going to be a robust response from BEE. As we know it was a damp squib response, maybe this time if EIR/EI do go to BHD then BEE will move some aircraft to BFS and offer SOU, CWL, DUN, ABZ and INV and Exter

Yes GAZMO, suicidal suggestion, Flybe would wipe EIR off the map and it would be a disaster. If I were EIR I would stay well away from getting into markets where they bring no differentiation. i.e. in Dublin EIR can compete on DUB BRS, ABZ(to the deteriment of FR who have withdrawn) as they provide feed into transatlantic. There is sufficient capacity on the domestics already to allow the airlines to make a return, bring more capacity would only drive prices down and in turn to an unsustainable level until 1 of the operators exited the market.

And the mention of bmibaby backs that suggestion, they got in beside a well established carrier on these routes, who has lower costs, frequency and determination to stay in the market.

EI-BUD

[SecondDog]

BA have just as much to lose as EI if the codeshare finished....Its not all about Belfast-LHR market.

Obviously the codeshare is not dependant on Belfast-LHR market

But I would suggest it is the major factor as far as the rumors of EI/EIR starting up at BHD Obviously there is no reason for EI to cut their BFS base and move to the city unless the attraction of the business LHR market is too good to miss out on given that Ambrose will offer the big Zero on fees to bring them in. Given that BA has just announced a commitment to the City route, it seems unlikely that the market will offer them much more than they have at the moment from BFS.

I personally thought that BA would pull out of Northern Ireland altogether after winding up BMI, then letting EI run all flights out of BHD-LHR with the BA codeshare (as mentioned above this is not likely now)

Add in to the mix that the profitable routes from BFS to the canaries are not realistic from the City (not to mention the new routes/frequencies from EZY/JET2) and it would seem that EI's wheeling and dealing to get a better deal might end up badly for them.

[Skipness One Echo]

The majority think its all about the airports and what they offer when thats only a samll part. There is much more to it.

That was the bit where you tell the resy of us eejits what the "rest" is. I see little difference outwith airport charges between BFS and BHD. Can we see a future where Aer Lingus and BA battle on Belfast - London never mind from the same airport? I doubt it, as a lot of the Aer Lingus traffic was connecting on BA and now it makes more sense to fly it themselves. It would be a brave man at BA who cancels Belfast now, seeing as how much it would make Willie Walsh look like a tit if they did.

[EI-A330-300]

What makes people so confident that EI will keep a LHR route if they moved to BHO. Those slots would have good use at DUB and ORK..

BA may be staying for now and this is most lightly because of all the political pressure from NI Government and who say NI economy would be affected by the pull out which is a load of bull...

BA will find better use for these slots in the future and BHO and DUB will be scrapped as soon as it happens but BHO will last longer than DUB.

[mart901]

EI-A330-300

I'm inclined to agree, 4x daily to LHR-DUB doesn't look very long term to me, Willy Walsh refered recently to a great working relationship with EI at DUB. I think they have more to play for out of BHD but again Willy has made it clear it will last as long as its profitable, it could easily be whittled down and then handed over to EI on a code share basis. It will be interesting to see what EI come up with for the Belfast market but I don't think it will ever be a mega base for them.

[frequentflyer2]

Journalists look for stories - it's the nature of their job. However, as a journalist myself, I can tell you there is no way a BBC news editor is going to broadcast anything based purely on the musings of PRRUNE contributors. Yes, if you have special responsibility for articles about aviation, you will keep an eye on forums such as this for possible 'leads'. If you see consistent speculation about something, you start to check it out. Failure to do so would be very unprofessional. But it would be even more unprofessional to write a story you could not stand over 100%, and the information contained within posts on this thread would have to be verified by other sources before it could be considered in any way reliable. This is why I say Jim Fitzpatrick must have received off the record information from a source with good knowledge of Aer Lingus's intentions.
Several years ago I picked up a suggestion on PPRUNE that passengers on a bmi charter from Palma to BFS had panicked and left their seats during the take-off roll when they mistook air conditioning misting for smoke from a fire somewhere on the aircraft. At rotation, they were making their way towards the cockpit door in a desperate attempt to alert the pilot to the perceived danger.
I put this to a bmi press officer who denied the incident had occurred. That could have been the end of the matter. However, I decided to give the CAA press office a try, just on the off chance.... They sent me full details of the incident. The guy at bmi had to concede defeat when I sent him a copy of the CAA statement. However, if I had not obtained independent verification of what happened, the story would not have appeared.

[mart901]

Also the very fact EI confirmed to the press they were in talks with both airports surely must indicate to even the most sceptical they are intending to move.

[GAZMO]

Dear keep er lit

EI will be in trouble for a number of reasons in my opinion
1. LHR via BA will be much stronger and BA have not been promoting their code share since they bought BMI
2. 7 BA flights compared to EL 3
3. canary routes are non starter due to distance and short runway and EZY and JET2 in the wings
4. Starting news routes at end of October 2012 is a very short lead time, some passenger already have their autumn winter flights booked
5. Drift of passengers to BFS as preferred location, don't forget BFS is much easier to get to from NE, NW W and S of provence
6. Unless you are connecting at LHR it's not cheap, BA £108 return, ok free bag, EZY half of this price
7. If they compete wIth BEE then BEE will naturally have to drop price to maintain market share, but remember BEE have been at BHD for over 25 years, just look who has come and gone

EI will find it very tough. Should have stayed at BFS

[mart901]

That to me is a non argument. FR carried some 800,000 pax out of BHD and EZY saw no change when they moved LTN flights to bhd. WW also have seen good numbers booked on sunshine routes. The fact bfs has ezy based their is why its more popular, its all about low cost fares, hence why FR did well. BHD is right for the city that houses 1/3 of the NI population, is a 10min £2 bus ride into the city with a train station opposite and right by the motorway.The argument that BE will wipe the floor with EI is yet to be proven.

[elle may clampit]

Good evening campers!

I think the fact that Ryanair abandoned BHD (because they were loosing money - not because of rwy delays) and that BA got bmibaby out of bhd asap 'in order to stem losses', even tho theyre still flying from ema and birmingham, might have some relevance here?

flybe are the only ones who have successfully maintained a range of flights from bhd over the years.

would have thought that aer lingus only focus at this point might be stopping their shamrocks from turning into harps - the old adage about 3rd time lucky. For sure only a maater of time b4 Ryan's shareholding goes over 50 pc.

[GAZMO]

Your argument has some merit especially regarding population but if you live north or west Belfast it is just as easy to get to BFS
The 800,000 I believe is the number of return journeys quoted after FR left, ie 400,000 return flights. Prior to FR arriving at BHD ezy had three flights to BRS reduced to two, five flights to Stansted reduced to four etc. it's only one cake and the numbers are only being switched from one airport to another. Since FR left ezy have increased their flights again
When EI moves to BHD their numbers will go up and BFS down for a short time.
Again it begs the question do we need three commercial airport for NI?