BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[dpconlan2011]

Ah thanks that would explain it. Wasn't sure why bhd had it on their phone app as 'lufthansa cityline' but obviously an oversight!

[mutleyshriek]

bmibaby at bhd.

If the loads were great then WW would never have pulled out at such an early stage.I know the Alc took 44 out and brought 17 back.That was two weeks ago.Stn and Ams loads are also horrendous.No flight has had more than 90 pax booked and they have been selling at rock bottom prices so no yield either.As I said before WW put themselves out on a limb cause no chance to mix and match fares with other carriers which happens at Bfs.Youre not gonna park you car at Bhd only to find a cheaper fare back from Bfs.Now into a double dip reccesion who does Mr Ambrose think hes kidding.Well he told lies to the Caa and the enquiry along with Katy Best but its came back to bite them firmly on the ass.BA only guarenting the LHr to oct.No new airlines to replace WW and Flybe axing Brs.Ive always maintained that there is no need for two airports in Belfast.

[cuthere]

Mutley, I see your geography is as good as your spelling. There's only one airport "in Belfast". The other one's out past Templepatrick, which is not "in Belfast".

Also, I'd be cautious about calling people liars on a public forum.

[True Blue]

Well this is the second route dropped by Flybe after the exit of Fr, following on from the loss of Liverpool. We have been fed this constant diet of facts re Bhd, it is the airport preferred by business pax, visitors will not come here if they cannot fly to Bhd etc. Yet on just about every route where there are services to both airports, most pax use Bfs. The exceptions, Lhr, Bhx and Man. Look at the numbers carried by Ezy last month to Man, if they keep going up at that rate, they will harm Flybe out of Bhd to Man as well.

We are now told that there might be two new operators to Bhd, covering both domestic and international routes. So who will arrive to operate domestic routes? Apart from Stn, what routes are they going to operate that they would not compete with Flybe? I am leaving out Lhr due slot issues. What would Flybe think of the fact that they were being p****d on a second time?

Who would operate international routes? Monarch has been mentioned. If they do come to Belfast, Turkey would be high on their list to operate to. But their usual pattern is for departures ex UK in the afternoon, arriving back here early am. How would they work that at Bhd where they want to max out the time spent in the air by their aircraft.

We are told that BA are to operate from Bhd. But hardly anything in the press re this decision. Do you not think if Ba has made a major commitment to Bhd, there would have been more in the press regarding this news? I have read nothing re the Ba decision, only a mention on here that it had been covered on UTV.

Seems to me we do not have a large enough population to support all these options, are things starting to give? Are the good days over?

TB

[david1994]

mutleyshriek - you are wrong on so many levels, STN and AMS loads poor? According to what I am looking at on their own reservation system on Checkin mode they are anything but your "horrendous", PMI+ALC are amoung the top highest pax

[redED]

.No flight has had more than 90 pax booked

Simply not true, even from a Baby sceptic such as myself. Comment on yields is probably very true though.

What would Flybe think of the fact that they were being p****d on a second time?

Try a third time.
Flybe would think nothing, sadly they'd roll over and take it.

[AIRPORT66]

airport66

Think what would give Bhd another kick in the teeth is if another new route from Bfs to Ema was to be announced really would be a sore one for them.

[mutleyshriek]

Panpanpanpan,lier is actually spelt Liar.whos the prick.I had the chance to see booked loads yesterday on the WW system and no flight is over 90.Given they might have been busy occasionally but only for selling seats at the rock bottom price.No yield.If they had have been that sucessful from BHD then why are all flights canx in a couple of weeks.As for Mr A.The CAA stated in the press that he did not tell them the truth about noise abatement as published in the Belfast Telegraph and also on Belfast City Airport Watch website,which in turn led to an extension of the public enquiry and the stall on it.You cant get done for speaking the truth.I dont take being called a prick lighly also.You spotters need to do one and **** off.Probably get banned from pprune but dont give two *****.Dont come on much anymore anyhow cause spotters have ruined it.

[mutleyshriek]

Panpanpanpan I have reported you to the moderators.

[EI-BUD]

Ive always maintained that there is no need for two airports in Belfast

I fully agree with this comment, Clearly the 2 airports will forever do tit for tat taking carriers from one to the other, but at the end of the day the leverage or bargaining power is firmly with the airlines. On a commercial basis to offer a stable environment for all parties concerned, the 2 should come together, bypass need for runway extensions etc etc at BHD consolidate all business at BFS and get into a realistic scenario from the point of view of one strong piece of infrastructure, realistic levels of charges to ensure that the airport can continue to invest in the future and also importantly provide a basis for funding some incentives for truly new business, new routes, Candada, Orlando, connections from Europe maybe a few new routes from EI that could assist transatlantic feed, BE could work with new carriers too?

This is my vision for the future, have shared this view both on here and with other contacts on here. Sustainability is what is missing in this whole thing. BFS has great runway and can handle expansion if ever needed without disturbing the locals.

There's only one airport "in Belfast

Absolute nonsense, would you also say there is only 1 airport in London. BFS is the main airport for Belfast as bourne out by the figures on a consistent basis.

If the loads were great then WW would never have pulled out at such an early stage

I would also concur with this, and from the word go I would have said and still maintain that baby was the wrong airline for BHD and a totally bad choice for the host of reasons debated on here. HOWEVER, despite loads or yield some of which we really in the main do not know about, the loads on some routes were much improved this month. STN did over 10k which is one of the better months, thats not awful in terms of attracting numbers and EZY was down on STN BFS though SEN may have been responsible for that.

If BHD want to grow they can do that with FR but clearly this would be at next to no return. The ultimate nugget is EZY. I would suggest that we can rest assured that in all of this wrangling in all of this BHD trying to attract new carriers, EZY Is negotiating down its costs at not only BFS but LTN also. Abertis will be more than aware that especially at BFS to lose EZY would be the making of its arch rival BHD but also catastrophic for the BFS facility, so they will see it as a low low return will be better than none. Hence my support of the idea that the 2 airports should merge their interests into one strong airport.

Finally, re EMA not sure EZY would go back, but I firmly believe that BE has signalled defeat on LPL and BRS, what more assurances do easyJet need to see to understand that they can effectively challenge and win against Flybe? I think EZY will consolidate its Belfast position and need not fear BE....

EI-BUD

[BHD2BFS]

Completely agree E-BUD. We only need the one, it would be good though to get a good road network to BFS it is always a depressing drive, also think but that BFS desperately needs a new terminal, you can only hide the cracks and add on bits here and there for so long, I know a new one will come with time but I think now is the time

[mutleyshriek]

Probably the most accurate and well informed post that has been put on pprune for a long time.Very well put EI-BUD.

[EI-BUD]

Thanks BHD2BFS, I feel it is real world commerce!

I meant to say earlier, I would be delighted to see BA back in the province, very welcome in my view. I fly them quite often ex LHR T5 which I really like as a facility.

Despite what the media reports around BA committments to BHD or Belfast in general, BA's or IAG's approach to domestic flying programme will be watched closely especially over the intergration period.

Hence bring on LBA, which amazed me, give multiple assurances that Belfast, and the Scottish route will continue to be served. BA will at the endof the day make commercial decisions and use the slots as it sees fit. I dont take one thing that the media reports as gospel, so to BHD I would say it is cold comfort. EI still have not finalised winter schedule, there is absolutely no reason for this as it is very small base, they have a small pool of staff, so cant see reasons why at the very least they couldnt even release some of it, for me I definately think that there is wider considerations that include BA and the route to LHR...

Just my view of the world ...

[david1994]

After I edit everything confidential out I shall post a screenshot of WW bookings/loads and adverge flights and let's put it this way some are better then EZY, hopefully this will prove the only liar here is "mutley" no flights over 90 pax I mentioned this to my friend who is a operations manager for bmi and she laughed, also anyone that has access to BMI Intranet can also get the WW information.

As for anyone that wants the "real" reason why they pulled BHD so early they can also find this only through the intranet under "staff announcements"

Anyway can everyone just stop the bullying I remember this was a nice place to visit where as now it just seems to be everyone ganging up on each other.

[cuthere]

EI-BUD, I too regard your posts as often excellent and well balanced. However, Belfast International Airport is no more "in" (as in literally within the city or metropolitan area) Belfast than City of Derry Airport. In answer to your question, there are two airports "in" London. These being Heathrow and City. The others serve London, but are not in the place. Pretty simple really.

What I, and I'm sure many others, object to is people blathering on about facts and figures they likely know nothing about. Knowing commercially sensitive data about WW at BHD, whilst also knowing BA's future plans, whilst ALSO knowing EZY's route development strategy is one of two things- utterly remarkable or rubbish.

I argued some years ago that economics would dictate the future of NI's airports. At the time BFS pax numbers were in free fall. These have stabilised and rebounded. Now BHD's are in decline, and will likely drop further in the coming months unless something miraculous happens. Does this however mean the place should be shut down to allow BFS to develop? Of course not.

Finally, I find it quite unpleasant that some people on here seem to be revelling in the fact that WW are closing, with obvious impacts on their employees.

[EI-BUD]

Cuthere, thanks for the compliment. Can I say that I certainly am not and I realise you are not saying I am revelling in baby's demise. I am on the contrary really sorry to see them go. Your point is well made re BFS was in decline and not it is rebounding and BHD in decline, I would say that this will be a component of the future up and down, hence my argument that there being 2 airports is unsustainable. It is nothing to do with the fact that BHD is on a downer.

I certainly dont blather on about WW facts, I interpret the CAA data as everybody else has access too. I give my view of the situation, I dont work for bmi group and so dont have the inside track and feel strongly that V few on here have a total global view of that. As I have said on many occassions re MY VIEW of BA, This is my view of things not factual, but this being a network of rumours and we are all as a result allowed to share our views and what we feel and what I feel, is based on my experience and my commercial awareness. I suppose it is also fair to say that BABYs stats at this stage are largely irrelvant except for BHD is setting their stall out in attracting new airlines.

I also have no inside track onto EZYs route strategy.. however, we can all speculate as to what they may be, quite reasonably. It will be some points on the current network.

King Regards to one and all on this thread!
EI-BUD

[Facelookbovvered]

BHD Loads

What ever the reason for the early withdrawal or the yields WW were putting bums on seats and a lot more than 90, i think yesterdays AGP was around 120 each way, its true that some other routes have declined, but that is little surprise given the massive negative publicity that WW have endured these past few weeks, the people who will loose most here (after WW employee's and support staff) are the locals, the prices have gone through the roof

[EI-BUD]

if there was only one supplier for the product I needed then I am obliged to pay the rate they choose

You raise a point that is at the heart of this debate panpanpanpan. The fact that there are 2 airports competing for the same airlines this means that the charges are not at a sustainable level and so long as they fight it out for the business, the airports themselves hand a disproportionate amount of the potential profit over to the airlines, and in the long run the question is all about sustainability.....

it would cost millions to upgrade facilities and infrastructure and who is going to pay?

Again this point is a very simplistic view of the world. I.e yes there would be investment costs but also needs to be considered is what synergies exist by merging 2 teams into 1, there is a lot of duplication and then take out the need for extending runways. Add into the fold a realistic return for the future for reinvestment and also to use to incentivise new routes and services. Finally, it is all well and good but purely looking at this from the customers (end user) is fine but again all parts of the chain need to make a realistic return, i.e. the equation has to be sustainable for all parties concerned.

[frequentflyer2]

We arrived back from Faro at BFS just over a fortnight ago. We collected our luggage and made our way out to the bus stop to travel into town. The first words that greeted us were: "I've no change. You'd better have the right money." As luck would have it, we did. We wanted to get off in Donegal Place, but people who did not have the correct amount were brusquely told they would have to stay on to the Europa Bus Station. Some of these people were visiting Northern Ireland for the first time. What a welcome. To me, BHD is a much more attractive place to travel through.

[david1994]

I have reported you to the mod's as you clearly can't have a cinil convo without insulting anyone... As for me I don't work directly or an airline but I can tell you one thing I am paid well above the minium wage (perhaps check out your facts before speaking)