BOURNEMOUTH - 3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern spain
Posts: 1,987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good argument flightfone but one thing I think you have missed is that the other regional airports in the UK have not spent 45 million on a new terminal etc. which very few people want to use and in my personal opinion will never use to justify that sort of outlay. Sorry to be so negative but their is just not enough punters in the catchment area.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capital investment
Compton, the terminal investment is a different debate. This needs to take into account the price paid for the airports, the book values of the asset and so on.
It's a bit like putting a new roof on your house, if you don't fix the roof the value of your house goes down, and correspondingly a new roof improves the value.
The new terminal at BOH was a necessity and improves the value of the airport. It makes sense to build one that has capacity for the life of the building. Which has been done. The decision was taken to build it, the money is spent and the asset value of the airport, at least on the books will have increased. There is no value in telling someone they should not repair their roof after they have done it!
As regards catchment, it undoubtedly exists, but so do about ten other airports going after the same catchment traffic. An airport normally reckons to attract passengers within two hours drive, BOH competes with a good few on that basis.
Key for BOH is its runway capacity. I predict that passenger traffic at the airport will continue to recover at a modest pace.
Time will tell.
FF
It's a bit like putting a new roof on your house, if you don't fix the roof the value of your house goes down, and correspondingly a new roof improves the value.
The new terminal at BOH was a necessity and improves the value of the airport. It makes sense to build one that has capacity for the life of the building. Which has been done. The decision was taken to build it, the money is spent and the asset value of the airport, at least on the books will have increased. There is no value in telling someone they should not repair their roof after they have done it!
As regards catchment, it undoubtedly exists, but so do about ten other airports going after the same catchment traffic. An airport normally reckons to attract passengers within two hours drive, BOH competes with a good few on that basis.
Key for BOH is its runway capacity. I predict that passenger traffic at the airport will continue to recover at a modest pace.
Time will tell.
FF
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK, sometimes USA
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southend has a population of around 173,000 (in 2011) whereas Bournemouth/Poole/Christchurch is over double that. Bournemouth Airport has much better airport facilities all round than Southend. The latter is also located on the coast like Bournemouth and in a relative backwater. Stansted is only 40 miles away which and, even using cross-country roads, can be reached in an hour.
So why has Easyjet signed a 10 year deal with Stobart's to base 3 or 4 aircraft so close to Stansted in what appears on paper to be an unpromising area?
I think the answer lies in the relative skills of both of MAG and Stobart in developing and managing the two businesses.
So why has Easyjet signed a 10 year deal with Stobart's to base 3 or 4 aircraft so close to Stansted in what appears on paper to be an unpromising area?
I think the answer lies in the relative skills of both of MAG and Stobart in developing and managing the two businesses.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southend has a population of around 173,000 (in 2011) whereas
Bournemouth/Poole/Christchurch is over double that
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southend
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southend - Backwater
Unfortunately airmiles figures are way out, this backwater of south essex as he puts it is somewhat more populated as EI-Bud points out.
Southend - 174,000
Rochford (actually where the airport is) - 83,000
Castle Point - 89,000 (8miles)
Basildon - 175,000 (13miles)
Chelmsford - 168,000 (20miles)
Brentwood - 74,000 (20miles)
As you can see somewhat closer to 750,000 within 20 miles, south essex does not have one large city but is a collection of large towns which almost overlap onto each other.
With two rail connects to London both only 50 minutes away the potential is huge and was obviously more appealing to Stobarts then Bournemouth.
Southend - 174,000
Rochford (actually where the airport is) - 83,000
Castle Point - 89,000 (8miles)
Basildon - 175,000 (13miles)
Chelmsford - 168,000 (20miles)
Brentwood - 74,000 (20miles)
As you can see somewhat closer to 750,000 within 20 miles, south essex does not have one large city but is a collection of large towns which almost overlap onto each other.
With two rail connects to London both only 50 minutes away the potential is huge and was obviously more appealing to Stobarts then Bournemouth.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southend is a London airport and as such not a relevant comparison with BOH, although the data is interesting. Exeter would be a better benchmark, as the others listed in post 320.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK, sometimes USA
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I was spot on as I said the population of Southend was 173,000 not the airport's catchment area! If you read my words you'll see I was comparing apples with apples. As a former resident of Colchester I know that people actually live outside of Southend, but didn't have reliable catchment area figures for both airports.
So what is the catchment area for Bournemouth airport to compare against Southend's 750,000? Would you include Southampton as it's about 30 miles and 40/45 minutes away? Wiki says Southampton urban area was 304,000 people in 2010.
Agreed the lack of a rail link at Bournemouth Airport is a problem, especially as the main line isn't actually that far away as the crow flies. Perhaps MAG should be investing more in a rail-air link with a decent frequency?
As for Southend picking up London passengers that could well be true. However, there are many more services available from Stansted, Luton and Gatwick, so why would Southend be so attractive to Londoners?
So what is the catchment area for Bournemouth airport to compare against Southend's 750,000? Would you include Southampton as it's about 30 miles and 40/45 minutes away? Wiki says Southampton urban area was 304,000 people in 2010.
Agreed the lack of a rail link at Bournemouth Airport is a problem, especially as the main line isn't actually that far away as the crow flies. Perhaps MAG should be investing more in a rail-air link with a decent frequency?
As for Southend picking up London passengers that could well be true. However, there are many more services available from Stansted, Luton and Gatwick, so why would Southend be so attractive to Londoners?
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote: "Southend - 174,000
Rochford (actually where the airport is) - 83,000
Castle Point - 89,000 (8miles)
Basildon - 175,000 (13miles)
Chelmsford - 168,000 (20miles)
Brentwood - 74,000 (20miles)
As you can see somewhat closer to 750,000 within 20 miles, south essex does not have one large city but is a collection of large towns which almost overlap onto each other."
Much like the area around LHR and beyond, some laughingly refer to these as the "outer metropolitan area".
On the other hand, BOH has a smaller conurbation along the coast, with a rural hinterland plus the Southampton conurbation beyond the New Forest, all of which is shared with SOU of course.
BTW, pardon my ignorance, the name is not familiar, where is Castle Point?
Rochford (actually where the airport is) - 83,000
Castle Point - 89,000 (8miles)
Basildon - 175,000 (13miles)
Chelmsford - 168,000 (20miles)
Brentwood - 74,000 (20miles)
As you can see somewhat closer to 750,000 within 20 miles, south essex does not have one large city but is a collection of large towns which almost overlap onto each other."
Much like the area around LHR and beyond, some laughingly refer to these as the "outer metropolitan area".
On the other hand, BOH has a smaller conurbation along the coast, with a rural hinterland plus the Southampton conurbation beyond the New Forest, all of which is shared with SOU of course.
BTW, pardon my ignorance, the name is not familiar, where is Castle Point?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 10th Nov 2012 at 17:13.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Poole
Age: 56
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Castlepoint is the out of town shopping centre for Bournemouth.
Castle Point is a borough and local government district in South Essex .
Nice to see this thread jump to life in the last few days even if it is heading off in some interesting tangents.
Castle Point is a borough and local government district in South Essex .
Nice to see this thread jump to life in the last few days even if it is heading off in some interesting tangents.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southend
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apples with apples
So BOH is Bournemouth/Poole/Christchruch and SEN is Southend, sounds like apples, oranges and pears with apples to me!!
Im sorry but SEN is actually in Rochford with is really just part of Southend you would not know you had moved from one area to another, its just an electorial boundary.
As for the rest of the places I quoted none of them have a airport in them unlike SOU, also all the places I quote are closer to SEN than STN before that gets raised.
Look I have nothing against BOH, but when its made out that SEN is some "backwater" I feel the need to respond.
Im sorry but SEN is actually in Rochford with is really just part of Southend you would not know you had moved from one area to another, its just an electorial boundary.
As for the rest of the places I quoted none of them have a airport in them unlike SOU, also all the places I quote are closer to SEN than STN before that gets raised.
Look I have nothing against BOH, but when its made out that SEN is some "backwater" I feel the need to respond.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,855
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so why would Southend be so attractive to Londoners?
Bournemouth’s problem in attracting passengers can’t be helped by it having no proper public transport links. I don’t count the local bus service to Bournemouth as being a suitable way for passengers with luggage to get to the airport. Apart from that there is nothing. The airport might as well be on the moon for Jonney Foreigner who arrives with no one picking him up.
I have been to BOH a few times and I have to say it does have the feel of being an airport in the middle of nowhere.
Last edited by LTNman; 11th Nov 2012 at 05:20.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK, sometimes USA
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So BOH is Bournemouth/Poole/Christchruch and SEN is Southend, sounds like apples, oranges and pears with apples to me!!
Im sorry but SEN is actually in Rochford with is really just part of Southend you would not know you had moved from one area to another, its just an electorial boundary.
Look I have nothing against BOH, but when its made out that SEN is some "backwater" I feel the need to respond.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In response to why BOH can't attract an Easyjet when SEN can - one thing i can offer:
SEN had a direct and very regular train service from the airport into London, that takes around an hour (in just over an hour, around 70-75mins you'd be in BHX by direct train from London). Two hours is far out.
SEN had a direct and very regular train service from the airport into London, that takes around an hour (in just over an hour, around 70-75mins you'd be in BHX by direct train from London). Two hours is far out.
Several factors to consider here. Compare the current movements up the road at SOU. Compare that with BOH. What is the estimated catchment area for the two airports? What facilities has each airport got? Connections to Southern Railway? car park charges? As discussed many people will be p
ed off with the charges at BOH.
It is highly unlikely that any airline will expand at an airport within 20 miles of each other. SOU will always be the winner even with its shorter runway facilities.
ed off with the charges at BOH.It is highly unlikely that any airline will expand at an airport within 20 miles of each other. SOU will always be the winner even with its shorter runway facilities.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fact that BOH has no rail and very poor road connections has been discussed over and over again for longer than I can remember.
Forget the rail connection - it will never happen.
Better road connections and maybe bus connections may happen, but only if the decline in air services from the terminal is reversed.
There are numerous and varied reasons for the decline.....for example the new Arrivals Hall is too small, and cannot accommodate more than one arrival at once.
This is a fact that dissuades Easyjet and others basing aircraft here.
Also the lack of flights means the ground staff are not present when diversions suddenly occur. These diversions (up to 9 at a time in the past) were a real money earner for the airport.....no longer.
However this still doesn't explain why flights which were so popular (winter Sat ski flights and winter sun flights to Malaga and the Canaries and Cruise connection flights just to list a few) have been gradually whittled away to oblivion.
Even the airport staff (those that still exist) are baffled by the lack of interest in anyone providing these services.
Meanwhile the bizjet and service companies are very appreciative of the Cat III facilities.
Forget the rail connection - it will never happen.
Better road connections and maybe bus connections may happen, but only if the decline in air services from the terminal is reversed.
There are numerous and varied reasons for the decline.....for example the new Arrivals Hall is too small, and cannot accommodate more than one arrival at once.
This is a fact that dissuades Easyjet and others basing aircraft here.
Also the lack of flights means the ground staff are not present when diversions suddenly occur. These diversions (up to 9 at a time in the past) were a real money earner for the airport.....no longer.
However this still doesn't explain why flights which were so popular (winter Sat ski flights and winter sun flights to Malaga and the Canaries and Cruise connection flights just to list a few) have been gradually whittled away to oblivion.
Even the airport staff (those that still exist) are baffled by the lack of interest in anyone providing these services.
Meanwhile the bizjet and service companies are very appreciative of the Cat III facilities.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: South East
Age: 56
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As mentioned several times fastest train to London from Bournemouth is 1hr50 which routes via Southampton Parkway, add the Bus transfer and it doesn't make a great alternative to as far as transport links go.
I liked using Bournemouth in the past and hope it is able to find its niche, perhaps with Charter operators using the larger aircraft not possible at Southampton.
I liked using Bournemouth in the past and hope it is able to find its niche, perhaps with Charter operators using the larger aircraft not possible at Southampton.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reality is best
Perhaps some facts to illustrate the reality of airports in the UK. The CAA publish comprehensive statistics on the throughput of all UK airports.
The past peformance and passenger trends are worth looking at.
BOH is a small regional airport, similar in size to Exeter, Durham Tees Valley, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool, Doncaster, and these days not very different to Glasgow Prestwick and Cardiff.
This is where you will find the data:
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
I have prepared a graph (i was bored) of the throughput of these airports, and SOU, using CAA data for 2001, 2006, 2011 and projected for 2012. PM me if you want a copy.
If you take the trouble to look, you will see that BOH is the only one of any of these airports improving over 2011, and most importantly still substantially ahead of 2001 figures. Southampton hasn't done badly either, but is still in decline, although much less than its peers Prestwick and Cardiff.
Cardiff this year is back at 1996 pax levels!
BOH was at 157K pax back then... and SOU at 544k... a very different picture!
Times are hard for all UK regional airports, BOH is performing better than most, and is way ahead where it has been for most of the past 25 years. Well done!
Looking ahead, its pretty obvious that Flybe is struggling near term, and equally clear that Ryanair is booming.
If you want to understand airlines' strategy, take time to read the annual shareholder reports and interim updates, both Ryanair and Easyjet make good reading and tell you all you need to know to figure out what they will do.
Easyjet have no intention of expanding at places like BOH, their focus is business passenger growth, they are going after short haul markets served by Lufthansa, Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, TAP and British Airways.
See here:Results centre - easyJet plc
Ryanair are likely to slowly grow at BOH and other UK bases, perhaps 5 -10% per year. In line with its published plan for growth accross Europe detailed in their investor report published a few days ago, see here:
Investor Relations News
Flybe will almost certainly shrink in UK, which will hurt SOU, and other UK bases, my guess is a 3-5% pax reduction in 2013.
Not a disaster, both SOU and BOH are doing a lot better than most of their UK peers.
FF
The past peformance and passenger trends are worth looking at.
BOH is a small regional airport, similar in size to Exeter, Durham Tees Valley, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool, Doncaster, and these days not very different to Glasgow Prestwick and Cardiff.
This is where you will find the data:
UK Airport Statistics | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA
I have prepared a graph (i was bored) of the throughput of these airports, and SOU, using CAA data for 2001, 2006, 2011 and projected for 2012. PM me if you want a copy.
If you take the trouble to look, you will see that BOH is the only one of any of these airports improving over 2011, and most importantly still substantially ahead of 2001 figures. Southampton hasn't done badly either, but is still in decline, although much less than its peers Prestwick and Cardiff.
Cardiff this year is back at 1996 pax levels!
BOH was at 157K pax back then... and SOU at 544k... a very different picture!
Times are hard for all UK regional airports, BOH is performing better than most, and is way ahead where it has been for most of the past 25 years. Well done!
Looking ahead, its pretty obvious that Flybe is struggling near term, and equally clear that Ryanair is booming.
If you want to understand airlines' strategy, take time to read the annual shareholder reports and interim updates, both Ryanair and Easyjet make good reading and tell you all you need to know to figure out what they will do.
Easyjet have no intention of expanding at places like BOH, their focus is business passenger growth, they are going after short haul markets served by Lufthansa, Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, TAP and British Airways.
See here:Results centre - easyJet plc
Ryanair are likely to slowly grow at BOH and other UK bases, perhaps 5 -10% per year. In line with its published plan for growth accross Europe detailed in their investor report published a few days ago, see here:
Investor Relations News
Flybe will almost certainly shrink in UK, which will hurt SOU, and other UK bases, my guess is a 3-5% pax reduction in 2013.
Not a disaster, both SOU and BOH are doing a lot better than most of their UK peers.
FF