New Thames Airport for London
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I spot a thread hijack. Please do not reply to this fool.
Then FDF and I ended up having a debate about the mayor and the local government system of London
Also you have to note that I am not that hostile to your THA proposal, just that expanding and improving LHR is the better option
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It's not a thread hijack - BALHR is just one of the finest Trolls this Forum has ever seen. he gets even better when you use your IGNORE option. 
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It's not a thread hijack - BALHR is just one of the finest Trolls this Forum has ever seen. he gets even better when you use your IGNORE option.
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"Cornwall is rather different to the rest of England; it has its own language, culture and even its own flag (which is flown all over the country), they are only part of England in name only and there are not too many “locals” who can say they are proud of being “English”"
nonsense - Cornish is not spoken by more than a couple of hundred idiots
most of the population were born outside the county and moved there to retire, go to college or become "artists" (hence its a minimum wage economy)
they don't have a different culture at all -a couple of special events such as the Furry dance do not a culture make I'm afraid. Otherwise they watch the same TV, movies, listen to the same music, read the same papers and drink in identical pubs to the rest of England
they complain about the UK Govt and the EU while taking more cash from both than almost anywhere else
nonsense - Cornish is not spoken by more than a couple of hundred idiots
most of the population were born outside the county and moved there to retire, go to college or become "artists" (hence its a minimum wage economy)
they don't have a different culture at all -a couple of special events such as the Furry dance do not a culture make I'm afraid. Otherwise they watch the same TV, movies, listen to the same music, read the same papers and drink in identical pubs to the rest of England
they complain about the UK Govt and the EU while taking more cash from both than almost anywhere else
Also the “Cornish Nationalists” are not too happy about “moved there to retire, go to college or become "artists”
Admiringly there is much of a “Cornish Culture” today, mainly due to the fact there are not many people who embrace it in Cornwall, but then again for centuries Wales did not exist (formally anyway, since it was incorporated into England in late 13th century) for centuries (it was only established gradually in the 20th century) and Welsh was a dying language, both of which are not the case
Also I think its Northern Ireland that takes more cash from Westminster than any other region…
For more into:
Cornish language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cornish nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for the fact “the same TV, movies, listen to the same music, read the same papers and drink in identical pubs to the rest of England” is it not the case throughout the UK, of course there are regional differences within each area
The question I am asking however is not about Cornwall, but about London + SE, without a doubt there is a large difference between that region and the rest of England (and the UK)
I’m my opinion there are big differences in economic, social and even cultural terms (and several more), plus its more ethnically diverse as well, not that I am saying that ethnic diversity applies only to that region and nowhere else)
I am not advocating that London + SE should become independent, but what I am calling for is autonomy, because London’s needs are different to other regions of the UK, more different than Scotland and Wales needs when compared to the UK
This would also strengthen the union, by ending Westminster’s bias in favour of London + SE (which ironically is not good for the region) which will in turn end the resentment from the rest of the UK (Rest of England, Wales and Scotland)
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he gets even better when you use your IGNORE option.
btw silverstrata, I was in Hong Kong last week and could weep at how it just works (!) I wish I could believe we could manage that here. I did actually start to reconsider my position if I am being honest, although my heart says you're right then my head laughs at the idea. I worry it would make the Berlin fiasco look like an accomplishmed deliverable.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 7th Jan 2013 at 14:27.
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Nothing quango-astic about ILEA, it was like a county council education committee in the first version of Greater London, a directly elected education committee in the second version, and non-existant in the third and fourth.
1933-1948: London Passenger Transport Board (formed by the merger of the Underground Electric Railways Company, the Metropolitan Railways, London Genera Omnibus Companyl, Thomas Tilling London and pretty much all Tram Networks within the Greater London area, but was a joint public body)
1948-1963: London Transport Executive (This became part of the British Transport Commission, which controlled the Railways, local and national bus networks, major road haulage firms and subsidiary business formally part of the “big 4” railways, such are hotels and ferry companies)
1963-1970: London Transport Board (when the British Transport Commission was broken up into separate bodies controlled by the Transport Ministry, the operations of the LTE where transferred to a new body called the LTB, the exception was “Green Line” buses services that where outside Greater London, which where transferred to the National Bus Company, another BTC successor body)
1970-1984: London Transport Executive (when the GLC was formed, one major gap in their limited powers was in transport, so the LTB become a separate body of the GLC and reverted back to the LTE name, however for the same reasons as what caused the demise of the GLC, it was forcibly broken off the GLC and moved back to the DFT)
1984-2000: London Regional Transport (after it was transferred from the GLC to the DFT, it changed its name to LRT, it retained the same powers as before, the only major difference it that it later franchised its bus operations)
2000 onwards: Transport for London (lastly when the GLA was formed, it dropped the London Transport name altogether, changed its name and became a subsidiary board of the GLA, its responsibilities have gradually expanded since then
If my “London Devolution” plan eve goes’ ahead, the only change will be that TFL will now be responsible for all transport within the areas currently not under the control of the GLA, but will become part of the “State of London”
Also all rail services formally part of Network South East will also now come under the control of TFL
Only in the five years of Livingstone. For much of its time the Greater London Council was Conservative controlled, with a majority of 82-18 over Labour in one election. Why do you think the Conservatives created it? Its creation was, originally, a classic exercise in party political gerrymandering (hence the crazy illogical zig-zag boundary!).
Under my “London Devolution” under the current political system it would be mostly Tory
That’s WHY it’s a bad idea: too small to be regional, to large to be provincial (county level). For conurbation government that works reasonably well, they should have gone down the Paris/Ile de France route, i.e the Thames Valley, from Oxfordshire to the coast, and including the "London" airports.
Functions that are “normally done by county councils” should obviously be done by county councils, which is why “Greater London” is a bad idea (it superceded the county councils).
As for New York, the “boroughs” there do nothing, they are constituencies for the election of an official (the borough president) who sits on the NY city council with the other councillors.
As for New York, the “boroughs” there do nothing, they are constituencies for the election of an official (the borough president) who sits on the NY city council with the other councillors.
Be your age! If a Livingstone controlled Greater London Council was able to challenge the government of the day, there is not a cat’s chance in hell of today's version being given the kind of more powers that you advocate!
If Scotland decides to leave the UK, I predict a flood of “independence/autonomy” demand, London + SE should make the most of it
Why?
BTW, Greater London is not a county and can't be a "state" (there are no states in the UK).
Why?
BTW, Greater London is not a county and can't be a "state" (there are no states in the UK).
I did not call this “new” London (I have dropped the “Greater London” name, since it confuses on who is in charge of London…) government a “City” (to prevent confusion with the “City of London”), nor “Kingdom” (since London was not a separate Kingdom at the time of formation of the UK in 1707 unlike England and Scotland, nor “Province” or “Principality” (unlike Wales or Northern Ireland), because it does not reflect the “metropolitan” character of London, hence why I choose “state”
*It’s about time the City of London was abolished, it does not reflect the vast majority of London’s residents (its only has 9,000 residents and covers 1 square mile), it’s out of date and irrelevant and its undemocratic an unaccountable and it should be replaced by the London Borough of Farringdon (its city status and nearly all its powers however are moved to the State of London)
As for other local governments with City status within the “State of London” well they will lose it, in return however the State of London will have City status
Why not “first minister” or “president”?
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He's the only ppruner on mine although frank keeps quoting him back which means I still get to read his ramblings. Nothing anyone says ever gets through.
btw silverstrata, I was in Hong Kong last week and could weep at how it just works (!) I wish I could believe we could manage that here. I did actually start to reconsider my position if I am being honest, although my heart says you're right then my head laughs at the idea. I worry it would make the Berlin fiasco look like an accomplishmed deliverable.
btw silverstrata, I was in Hong Kong last week and could weep at how it just works (!) I wish I could believe we could manage that here. I did actually start to reconsider my position if I am being honest, although my heart says you're right then my head laughs at the idea. I worry it would make the Berlin fiasco look like an accomplishmed deliverable.
Anyway, its not impossible (HKIA has already done it on a smaller scale, with British Taxpayers Money), the question is it is worth the vast cost?
My opinion is that as long as we can allow major improvements to LHR (including major expansion), then no THA is not needed, if that is not possible however, then we should do it as long as its done properly (for once...)
Paxing All Over The World
It seems that BALHR replies after posts that have made a criticism of their words. So I intuit that he (I presume that he is such) is irritated by being so classified.
The reason that I ignore your posts is that you do not show much sense of conversation. You continually assert your views (which is just fine) but when contradicted (even mildly) you do not reply with, "That's interesting" or "Thanks for the different point of view" and so forth.
These forums are about discussion and I don't think that you discuss in a way that I enjoy, simple really. I find the topic very interesting and important and will continue to follow the thread.
The reason that I ignore your posts is that you do not show much sense of conversation. You continually assert your views (which is just fine) but when contradicted (even mildly) you do not reply with, "That's interesting" or "Thanks for the different point of view" and so forth.
These forums are about discussion and I don't think that you discuss in a way that I enjoy, simple really. I find the topic very interesting and important and will continue to follow the thread.
when you use your IGNORE option
Just in time, too - I had been rapidly losing the will to live.
Good point about posting loads, yet being unwilling to engage in debate or acknowledge other points of view.
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It seems that BALHR replies after posts that have made a criticism of their words. So I intuit that he (I presume that he is such) is irritated by being so classified.
The reason that I ignore your posts is that you do not show much sense of conversation. You continually assert your views (which is just fine) but when contradicted (even mildly) you do not reply with, "That's interesting" or "Thanks for the different point of view" and so forth.
These forums are about discussion and I don't think that you discuss in a way that I enjoy, simple really. I find the topic very interesting and important and will continue to follow the thread.
The reason that I ignore your posts is that you do not show much sense of conversation. You continually assert your views (which is just fine) but when contradicted (even mildly) you do not reply with, "That's interesting" or "Thanks for the different point of view" and so forth.
These forums are about discussion and I don't think that you discuss in a way that I enjoy, simple really. I find the topic very interesting and important and will continue to follow the thread.
Also thank you very much for your honesty...
Last edited by BALHR; 8th Jan 2013 at 09:45.
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Grateful thanks for drawing that button to my attention, I hadn't been aware of it until now.
Just in time, too - I had been rapidly losing the will to live.
Good point about posting loads, yet being unwilling to engage in debate or acknowledge other points of view.
Just in time, too - I had been rapidly losing the will to live.
Good point about posting loads, yet being unwilling to engage in debate or acknowledge other points of view.
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Quote: "Then FDF and I ended up having a debate about the mayor and the local government system of London"
Not a debate as such, that turned out not to be possible, so more an attempt to correct innaccuracies. It appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
Quote: "btw silverstrata, I was in Hong Kong last week and could weep at how it just works (!) I wish I could believe we could manage that here. I did actually start to reconsider my position if I am being honest, although my heart says you're right then my head laughs at the idea. I worry it would make the Berlin fiasco look like an accomplishmed deliverable."
Lucky devil! love HKG it's a fabulous place! It does work like a dream.
However, would definitely not equate Chek Lap Kok with any proposed Silver Island scheme.
Not a debate as such, that turned out not to be possible, so more an attempt to correct innaccuracies. It appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
Quote: "btw silverstrata, I was in Hong Kong last week and could weep at how it just works (!) I wish I could believe we could manage that here. I did actually start to reconsider my position if I am being honest, although my heart says you're right then my head laughs at the idea. I worry it would make the Berlin fiasco look like an accomplishmed deliverable."
Lucky devil! love HKG it's a fabulous place! It does work like a dream.
However, would definitely not equate Chek Lap Kok with any proposed Silver Island scheme.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 8th Jan 2013 at 13:43.
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Not a debate as such, that turned out not to be possible, so more an attempt to correct innaccuracies. It appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
On the plus side, I fee we are both on the same wavelength when it comes to what needs to be done (sort of...)
Lucky devil! love HKG it's a fabulous place! It does work like a dream.
However, would definitely not equate Chek Lap Kok with any proposed Silver Island scheme.
However, would definitely not equate Chek Lap Kok with any proposed Silver Island scheme.
Last edited by BALHR; 8th Jan 2013 at 14:16.
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What makes you think that THA would not be successful as HKG, after all the latter was built under British rule and with British taxpayers money...
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I don't think the British taxpayer paid a single dollar to build Chep Lak Kok - it was all raised by the local Govt (who later sold a load of equity to private investors) and on the international bond markets
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Read the previous 51 pages and find out.
I don't think the British taxpayer paid a single dollar to build Chep Lak Kok - it was all raised by the local Govt (who later sold a load of equity to private investors) and on the international bond markets
Otherwise, thanks for the info
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More nonsense! Catalonia did indeed vote for pro-independence parties, whist asking Madrid for a bail out. The Spanish experience shows us exactly why we should not have gone down the route of regional government/devolution. Too late now, that particular genie won’t go back in the bottle.
Also if there was no regional government/devolution, then Spain would have broken up as soon as Franco died, remember since his side won the Spanish Civil War, they repressed the Spanish population and in particular the “Non-Spanish” populations (Catatonia and Basque Country) who mostly sided against him, so by the time his rule came to a end, there was a lot of resentment…
Forget it, it’s obviously never going to happen: as mentioned before, an English Parliament (even without Cornwall!) would be big enough to challenge the Westminster Parliament, so it will never be allowed.
But they have already let the “devolution” cat in the bag; London out of any region in the UK is most needing of devolution out of any part of the UK, the longer they delay this the harder it would be to prevent, after all Scotland is voting either to leave the UK or not (even if they voted no, they will get even more power)
We have currently are in a worst of both world when it comes to London + SE, the rest of the UK resents the fact that Westminster is bias towards London + SE, yet that same region is resentful of the fact they don’t have their best interests at heart (like LHR expansion for example) and the fact 20% of the tax revenue is spent outside the region (at a time when public services and even Blue Plaques are being cut)
This is the main reason why the UK is falling apart in the first place (ultimately)…
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Going back on topic, let’s not spend 4 years wasting time on what to about expansion and decide right here and right now with these following options:
1: A 4-6 runway Heathrow
2: A 6 runway Gatwick, but with Heathrow shut down
3: A 6 runway Stansted, but with Heathrow, Gatwick an Luton shut down
4: A 8 runway New Airport, but with Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, Southend and City shutdown
(Note, I would pick 1)
We have been delaying the decision since WW2, we have devolved other Ex-RAF airports and we have given in to opponents and trying to plaster the problem, but we have reached the end of the line and we are also in a economic mess, we face strong competition from our rivals in Europe and even stronger competition from North America and the Middle East
All those options however will mean major changes for all of London’s Airports however, being that full-service carriers at LGW will move to LHR and maybe Easyjet’s ops at LGW/LTN/STN as well (if they continue to aim more at business passengers and become more of a “hybrid carrier”)
This will mean LGW will be rather empty, which in turn means that traffic (LCC and Charter) will move from Luton/Stansted to Gatwick (due to having a better location…)
We will end up with a busy LHR, a rather less full LGW and a rather empty LTN/STN…
1: A 4-6 runway Heathrow
2: A 6 runway Gatwick, but with Heathrow shut down
3: A 6 runway Stansted, but with Heathrow, Gatwick an Luton shut down
4: A 8 runway New Airport, but with Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, Southend and City shutdown
(Note, I would pick 1)
We have been delaying the decision since WW2, we have devolved other Ex-RAF airports and we have given in to opponents and trying to plaster the problem, but we have reached the end of the line and we are also in a economic mess, we face strong competition from our rivals in Europe and even stronger competition from North America and the Middle East
All those options however will mean major changes for all of London’s Airports however, being that full-service carriers at LGW will move to LHR and maybe Easyjet’s ops at LGW/LTN/STN as well (if they continue to aim more at business passengers and become more of a “hybrid carrier”)
This will mean LGW will be rather empty, which in turn means that traffic (LCC and Charter) will move from Luton/Stansted to Gatwick (due to having a better location…)
We will end up with a busy LHR, a rather less full LGW and a rather empty LTN/STN…
1: A 4-6 runway Heathrow
2: A 6 runway Gatwick, but with Heathrow shut down
3: A 6 runway Stansted, but with Heathrow, Gatwick an Luton shut down
4: A 8 runway New Airport, but with Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, Southend and City shutdown
2: A 6 runway Gatwick, but with Heathrow shut down
3: A 6 runway Stansted, but with Heathrow, Gatwick an Luton shut down
4: A 8 runway New Airport, but with Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, Southend and City shutdown