New Thames Airport for London

[PAXboy]

An interesting item I see on Yahoo, relayed from an agency (credited)

Asia-Pacific home to most millionaires: report - Yahoo! Finance UK

Asia-Pacific has overtaken North America as home to the most millionaires for the first time, boosted by a rise in the number of wealthy in China and Japan, a report released on Wednesday showed.

The pendulum is swinging more strongly away from the West ...

[silverstrata]

Paxy:

An interesting item I see on Yahoo, relayed from an agency (credited)

Asia-Pacific home to most millionaires: report - Yahoo! Finance UK

The pendulum is swinging more strongly away from the West ...

No, you don't say.

I forecast that some 30 years ago, as British industry started to crash around our ears. No production = no income = no wealth.

And the reason for the decline? There are many dinosaurs out there (still) who will not allow UK PLC to modernize and regenerate. So we are stuck with outdated factories, outdated technology and outdated infrastructure.

You would not believe it, but there are some people out there who are against major redevelopment of the UK's infrastructure simply because some dumb-ass worker cannot be bothered to move 30 miles !!

Can you believe it?? Me neither. Incredible, isn't it.



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[Skipness One Echo]

So we are stuck with outdated factories, outdated technology and outdated infrastructure.

What ARE you on about?
Which outdated factories? They've all gone, Thatcher saw to that.
What technology specifically are you grumbling about?
The public infrastructure is way better than many parts of the US, I have travelled extensively and for a first world country, the US is lacking seriously in decent roads and certainly mass transit in the big cities.

You would not believe it, but there are some people out there who are against major redevelopment of the UK's infrastructure simply because some dumb-ass worker cannot be bothered to move 30 miles !!

You know for a much travelled B767 captain whom the majors wouldn't touch, (attitiude?) you whine a lot about others and fail to listen to good advice. Your hobo like lifetstyle is not to most peoples tastes, and because you've had a miserable and unsettled time in your employment does in no way mean that the rest of need to follow in your footsteps.

Now :
Costs of moving the BA Maintenance Base and who pays for it? I've given you a week to think about it. Any numbers yet?

I do not recognise your Mail Online skewed view of my country you are mixing up in LA. Detail strata, details

[jabird]

He is to be congratulated for being efficient, he is to be condemned for being cavalier.

No doubt if this was a Virgin jet in the same situation, Branson would say he was doing it for improved environmental performance, and all would be ok.

Now back to fantasy island - three letters Silver:

P S C

[silverstrata]

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Boris has once again nailed his colors to the mast of the Silver-Boris Thames airport.

Boris Johnson launches extraordinary attack on Cameron's government, claiming it is on course for 'economic catastrophe' | Mail Online

And once again, he has seriously stepped up his pressure on David Cameron. If this is not a threat to run for the premiership, I don't know what is.

However, from all the statements that Boris has made, if he ever did topple Cameron and become prime minister, then he would just have to go ahead with the Silver-Boris airport. He has staked too much on this, to back out now. Indeed, his growing popularity appears to be solely due to his apparent ability to make difficult decisions and promote difficult projects, like Silver-Boris airport. The general public are at last realizing that government is not all about wish-washy middle-of-the-road policies and sound-bite platitudes -- sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns and make an 'unpopular' decision (or in Boris' case, lay down your plough and kick some governmental ass).

Interesting development. We shall see what happens at the Tory conference.



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[Skipness One Echo]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...happen-12.html

Can we merge all this perhaps?

[jabird]

Can we merge all this perhaps?

If that thread should be merged in, should it not be on the Heathrow page?

Remember that one was started as a result of a Lib Dem pledge, and they don't want FBI either. I still haven't worked out exactly where their "evidence based" alternative hub might be, but if they are thinking of Birmingham, then forget it - I couldn't even get a bus for an early flight last Sunday - and that is from Coventry! They think people will come out from London to catch flights from BHX? Get real!

[silverstrata]

Jabird

Remember that one was started as a result of a Lib Dem pledge, and they don't want FBI either. I still haven't worked out exactly where their "evidence based" alternative hub might be, but if they are thinking of Birmingham, then forget it - I couldn't even get a bus for an early flight last Sunday - and that is from Coventry! They think people will come out from London to catch flights from BHX? Get real!

Ha, ha. Always the problem with our half-baked, unplanned, unconnected and underfunded transport system. And if you chose BHX as a hub, you will still end up with the Chinese transit passenger at LHR, whose connection departs from BHX in 50 minutes. BHX is a non-starter all round.

But then the Lib-Dems have always been dreamers, totally disconnected from reality, so what more could we expect? Actually, with the Lib-Dems, deciding governmental policy is rather easy. Whatever they say, do the opposite, and you will not be far wrong.





This is why Silver-Boris Thames airport has to be done correctly, even if this makes it a bit expensive (you will note that Boris has just added £30 billion to the cost for ground transport links).

So if you are listening, Boris, we need to:

Make the Chunnel TGV glide straight into Silver-Boris airport (and not on some half-baked spur-line, which would double journey times on the London-Paris via Silver-Boris route).

The Chunnel TGV and HS2 have to meet up at the same London hub (i.e.: not two hubs with 4 km between them). A super-fast TGV route with a 4km bus journey in the middle, would be the laughing-stock of Europe.

Crossrail has to be extended to terminate in Silver-Boris. Again, having a bus from Abbey Wood to the airport terminal would result in incalculable frustration in London, and great levity across all of Europe.

The new outer M25 and Thames crossing has to meet up with Silver-Boris. Please do not miss the airport by a couple of kilometers, and join the two with a Bailey Bridge.

Silver-Boris has to be orientated NE - SW, to keep flights (and noise) away from central London. (And into the prevailing wind.) Changing the noise nuisance over London from westerly winds to easterly winds is not going to endear you to the burghers of central and east London.

None of this silly 'terminals at the end of the runway' nonsense, if you please. If anyone champions this kind of design, there are plenty of lampposts in east London.

Make sure there is enough room for 5 runways, so we can add a 'commuter runway' if it becomes necessary. Four runways are great, but mixing heavies and lights is always a pain for ATC. Having a dedicated light-medium a/c commuter runway would speed things up tremendously. (Especially if this runway had its own commuter terminal and high-speed link to the international terminal.)

Please make sure the terminals are fully designed for International, Domestic and Schengen separation. Airports that have had to shove last-minute, unplanned security points in stupid places (i.e., most USA airports) are a pain in the ass.

Tell the man with the 'floating airport' concept to go forth and multiply.




Once you have done all that, I wish you well.



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[jabird]

But then the Lib-Dems have always been dreamers

Well Silver, it takes one to know one.

Isn't it time we stopped calling this nonsense Silver Island, and you just stuck with the £80bn Fantasy Island (or FBI) tag the rest of us are using? Or are you still stuck in your LA towers thinking that FBI implies some intelligence in the plans?

I mean - Schengen flights from the UK - come on! Remember, you are the one who keeps on going on about all the immigrants. How do you keep the borders under control if the UK joined Schengen?

[Skipness One Echo]

I keep asking him for numbers. He can't handle detail, indeed I actually suspect he's not a CPL at all. His thinking isn't disciplined.

[jabird]

I keep asking him for numbers. He can't handle detail, indeed I actually suspect he's not a CPL at all. His thinking isn't disciplined.

Now let me guess. You have Silver rumbled! He isn't really in LAX at all. Silver is actually the silver-mop topped Boris, and he knows he is completely clueless about his own airport idea, so he has come here for some advice

[silverstrata]

Jabird

I mean - Schengen flights from the UK - come on! Remember, you are the one who keeps on going on about all the immigrants. How do you keep the borders under control if the UK joined Schengen?

Did I mention the UK joining Schengen? No. What I said is that airports need to be designed from the ground up to separate International, Domestic and Schengen passengers. And in case you don't know, Schengen passengers are not treated the same as International passengers.


And actually, I would not mind the UK joining Schengen, as these nations do not represent the immigration problem that the UK faces.

The only problem with Schengen is the ability for certain nations to pass their immigration problem onto other nations. Witness the French closing the border with Italy, because the Italians were passing their immigrants straight onto France, just to get rid of them. And then the Italians retorted by accusing the French of not allowing them to police their border more ruthlessly (by sinking a few boats). Such are the stresses and strains of nations working in a Federation.

On balance the UK is better out of Schengen, because you can be sure that the perfidious French would pass 5 million North Africans straight onto the UK. One day, Europe will sing from the same hymn-sheet, but not just yet.

Jabird

Now let me guess. You have Silver rumbled! He isn't really in LAX at all. Silver is actually the silver-mop topped Boris, and he knows he is completely clueless about his own airport idea, so he has come here for some advice

Cripes, I've been rumbled. Don't tell the press......



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[jabird]

And in case you don't know, Schengen passengers are not treated the same as International passengers.

Yes they are. When you arrive in the UK (something I did on Thursday, when was your last visit to Blighty?) - there are indeed different arrivals channels, but there is no distinction based on Schengen.

The first separation is "domestic" arrivals, and this includes the UK, IOM, CI and also Ireland. However, arrivals from IOM & CI are subject to customs controls. No passport control is needed for these arrivals.

All other arrivals are bunched into the same area, but then you sometimes get separate channels, based on the passports held by the pax. This distinction is between the European Economic Area (EEA) + Switzerland and others, but it does not correspond directly to Schengen.

Although it includes all of the Schengen area, it also includes UK passport holders, together with passport holders from Ireland (who might not be arriving from the Republic), Bulgaria, Cyprus, Romania and (from 2013) Croatia.

Therefore, although the two are related, it would be quite wrong to mix them into one and have Schengen and "international" gates, as is the case in most continental European airports.

Even if people were making Schengen to Schengen transfers (eg CPH to FBI to BCN), they should not need to go through passport control any more than someone transferring from the USA to the Middle East - providing the terminal was designed to handle this, and everything was kept airside.

However, by the time FBI would ever get built, we might be all using RFID implants, so the concept of nationality will eventually become far less relevant in airport management. The pre-crimes dept will be far more interested in behaviour patterns whilst the commercial forces will want to suck you through whatever buying opportunities they can.

[Fairdealfrank]

Frankly, Boris only has himself to blame on the Government's decision to kick the issue into the long grass. The Government was slowly inching towards a U-turn on its opposition to Heathrow expansion until Boris's intervention scared the life out of them. If he wants a decision out of the government he needs to get behind Heathrow expansion. Of course he has his own agenda, and it has nothing to do with marginal seats under the flightpath, so that won't happen.

Birmingham as a hub, or any other UK airport (existing or future), is a side show, and best kept for the 1st April. If the hub is not at Heathrow it will be at Amsterdam, Paris-De Gaulle, or Frankfurt, it is as simple as that. Forget about the Libdems, they are happy to have no UK hub and oppose Boris Vanity Project White Elephant Island (BVPWEI) as well.

Interesting, isn't it, that BVPWEI is now estimated to cost £80bn including access infrastructure, with £30bn coming from public funds? Never going to happen, trust me. For a tiny fraction of that we could tunnelise/divert the M25 and other roads allowing for extra runway(s) to cross the M25 and be full length, and not need to demolish the Wraybury reservoir and/or Bedfont and Stanwell as proposed in some quarters.

The questions still remain unanswered:
(1) who pays for BVPWEI and why would they?
(2) how do you persuade the airlines and their pax to move there?
(3) how does BVPWEI ever get planning permission?

[beamender99]

Daniel Moylan flies to defence of 'Boris Island' airport

Daniel Moylan flies to defence of 'Boris Island' airport - Telegraph

[Skipness One Echo]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...happen-12.html

Can we merge these threads into a Heathrow Futures thread?

[PAXboy]

What S.O.E. said = 'Like'

[jabird]

(1) who pays for BV-PWEI and why would they?

Well, PWEI were a 90s Indy act from Stourbridge, which makes me think of referring Silver to their Top 41 hit "Wise Up Sucker"!

[jabird]

Broadly, it would involve shrinking Heathrow from today’s 70 million passengers a year to around 20 million, redeveloping part of the airport and compensating BAA and some airlines for relocating the traffic.

Now that's one thing that is a new take we haven't had. Don't close Heathrow, just deflate it a little. how is that going to work? Why would LHR stay at the 20m pax pa mark when all the traffic currently at LGW is going to want to come there, if it can get the slots. So demand would still be reasonably high for that site, which would still be the closest airport with full sized runways to central London.

Now what happens when, 1 year into PWEI's existence, BAA start offering sweeteners to have airlines come back from PWEI to their much lower cost facility?

Which begs that question again Silver:

What will the PSC at PWEI be?

[silverstrata]

Jabird

Now that's one thing that is a new take we haven't had. Don't close Heathrow, just deflate it a little.

Stupid idea.

London is NOT short of airports, it is surrounded by them. Instead, it is woefully short of a world-hub with spare capacity, good ground links and a citizen-freindly noise footprint.

As to the expense, what do you mean we cannot afford it? The UK has spent £350 billion on the banks, which has done absolutely nothing for jobs, infrastructure or national efficiency. Instead, it went towards increasing bonuses for failed fat-cats, who could not run a coffee shop let alone a multinational financial institution.

Had we diverted £100 billion of that into Silver-Boris Thames airport, it could already have been under construction. However, all is not lost. Instead of the BofE contemplating yet more Q.E., to boost bankster bonuses still further, it could print another £100 bn, put it into the 'Silver-Boris' bank account, and we will start construction next week.



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