BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
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The bottom line is that Dublin airport is now very convenient to get to, whether by car or using public transport from Northern Ireland. We all live in a free market where we all have choices to travel from wherever is most convenient/cheapest for us, get used to it.
If Aldergrove think they could ever pose a real threat to Dublin they are in cuckoo land.
People on here seem to have a very clear idea in their minds that things should just continue in a fashion because 'thats just how it has been done for ages' etc
In my opinion, there is no alternative for aviation in Northern Ireland than to merge BFS/BHD services (at Aldergrove) and improve the transport infrastructure to that airport, so that they can stop the pesky stealing of services in their own backyard (only airlines profit from this) and concentrate on focusing on the routes/ services they provide to try to improve their market share against Dublin.
Join Date: Jul 2013
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People go to Dublin because they don't have a choice from Belfast, not because they enjoy sitting on a coach for 2.5 hours without a toilet.
Eg. last year when I went to Hong Kong in March, BA were charging ~£800 from BHD-LHR-HKG while DUB-LHR-HKG was ~£500 and I imagine a lot of people would like to save ~£300!
Join Date: Sep 2011
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The argument has become almost tautological. Leaving City of Derry airport out of the equation, the strategic or competitive advantage of having two airports within a twenty mile radius to serve a population of 1.5+mil is highly questionable. On the one side BHD has blossomed to the detriment of BFS, and that is probably, on the public face at least, because of a lack of strategic direction, imagination and vision by the local management at BFS; whether that was influenced by forces brought to bear by the previous Spanish owners is speculative, but with the change of ownership there now a real opportunity going forward to see what can be achieved.
The proposals announced today to enhance the Belfast-Dublin rail link does little to add to the fortunes of BFS. Two Belfast airports are not sustainable, and the competition argument is equally tenuous. Since NI is so fond of Inquiries, here is an issue that is well worthy of further investigation
The proposals announced today to enhance the Belfast-Dublin rail link does little to add to the fortunes of BFS. Two Belfast airports are not sustainable, and the competition argument is equally tenuous. Since NI is so fond of Inquiries, here is an issue that is well worthy of further investigation
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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Just maybe .
Your point of sustainability is spot on, at the core of the problem, the two airports are not sustainable in the long term. The level of capital investment required over long term is staggering.
The debate is most futile upon reflection. BHD can't be the only Belfast airport as it even with runway extension and increased opening hours cannot facilitate the scale required , cargo etc.
EI BUD
Your point of sustainability is spot on, at the core of the problem, the two airports are not sustainable in the long term. The level of capital investment required over long term is staggering.
The debate is most futile upon reflection. BHD can't be the only Belfast airport as it even with runway extension and increased opening hours cannot facilitate the scale required , cargo etc.
EI BUD
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
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Here we go again! Last time i checked we didn't live in a communist state therefore no-one has the right to close one privately owned business to let another privately run business succeed
It never ceases to amaze me that this concept is beyond rational thinking
Are BHD and BFS both profitable? Apologies for my ignorance but I'm not an Ulsterman. If they are then fair dues, 2 private companies making a profit is not to be sniffed at.
Reading those telegraph articles, what struck me was that 2 profitable (if they are profitable) airports offering European bucket and spade routes and Hubs certainly have a future in Belfast, but will not be able to compete with DUB on long haul.
Reading those telegraph articles, what struck me was that 2 profitable (if they are profitable) airports offering European bucket and spade routes and Hubs certainly have a future in Belfast, but will not be able to compete with DUB on long haul.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Panpanpanpan
I find it ironic how you comments say things like lets not start the debate again, etc. yet on the back of such comments you get you twopence worth in on the subject, so in effect starting the debate again ...
You are a dedicated supporter of BHD, I remember this when I see posts from you. your arguments lack any statraregic thinking, the debate has been about sustainability , I fly from both airports mostly BHD of late and I admit I prefer the airport in most aspects, but the issue is sadly that there might be big investors standing behind both airports but say 10 years from now we will see if the investment each one needs in forthcoming and I fear we will end up with 2 airports like PIK .. An example of an airport that has seen little investment due to declining revenue.
The future is mapped out as both airports are marginally profitable and significant investment has been made, hence not simply a case of closing one of the other.
In the mean time beyond where the public eye can see the airlines will continue to squeeze the airports for the lowest possible costs and the airports agreeing to marginal fees to maintain business. This is also not sustainable and is the cause and effect of having 2 airports serving a city with a small population.
Though Belfast is my home / neighbourhood , I'm not participating in this debate any further.
I find it ironic how you comments say things like lets not start the debate again, etc. yet on the back of such comments you get you twopence worth in on the subject, so in effect starting the debate again ...
You are a dedicated supporter of BHD, I remember this when I see posts from you. your arguments lack any statraregic thinking, the debate has been about sustainability , I fly from both airports mostly BHD of late and I admit I prefer the airport in most aspects, but the issue is sadly that there might be big investors standing behind both airports but say 10 years from now we will see if the investment each one needs in forthcoming and I fear we will end up with 2 airports like PIK .. An example of an airport that has seen little investment due to declining revenue.
The future is mapped out as both airports are marginally profitable and significant investment has been made, hence not simply a case of closing one of the other.
In the mean time beyond where the public eye can see the airlines will continue to squeeze the airports for the lowest possible costs and the airports agreeing to marginal fees to maintain business. This is also not sustainable and is the cause and effect of having 2 airports serving a city with a small population.
Though Belfast is my home / neighbourhood , I'm not participating in this debate any further.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin2
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UDF The BHD owner's accounts show that they're in the can for a couple of hundred mil debt. I believe the airport being the only asset on the books registered a loss last year, so little hope of improving this black situation by trading out. So need to sell for as much dosh as can be mustered.
In the meantime the necessity to string things out until a sale can be achieved has led to desperate and ridiculous deals to get business in (FR, bmib, EI...) to keep the good ship lollipop appearance, all taking from and dragging performance at BFS towards the mire. In this situation it's simply a race to the bottom. Allowing for Dublin focus, support, headstart, awareness level etc etc this nonsense just makes matters even simpler for them. It's not even relevant to talk about competition with Dublin anymore. It should be, but that ship has probably sailed.
Meantime the man in the street looks at things at face value and thinks this desperate 'competition' is great and that everything re flying should naturally be foc.
Those 'responsible' for shaping the base of the economy can't do anything because it's 2 private companies (yawn yawn) which might well be a little short-sighted because when the bottom is reached if there is no viable means of reaching out and drawing in visitors and investors from the big bad world outside it will be mightily challenging to achieve economic targets for real external tourist numbers over the next few years. But hey-ho if that happens, trouble on the streets and London will make up the shortfall.........or maybe not???
In the meantime the necessity to string things out until a sale can be achieved has led to desperate and ridiculous deals to get business in (FR, bmib, EI...) to keep the good ship lollipop appearance, all taking from and dragging performance at BFS towards the mire. In this situation it's simply a race to the bottom. Allowing for Dublin focus, support, headstart, awareness level etc etc this nonsense just makes matters even simpler for them. It's not even relevant to talk about competition with Dublin anymore. It should be, but that ship has probably sailed.
Meantime the man in the street looks at things at face value and thinks this desperate 'competition' is great and that everything re flying should naturally be foc.
Those 'responsible' for shaping the base of the economy can't do anything because it's 2 private companies (yawn yawn) which might well be a little short-sighted because when the bottom is reached if there is no viable means of reaching out and drawing in visitors and investors from the big bad world outside it will be mightily challenging to achieve economic targets for real external tourist numbers over the next few years. But hey-ho if that happens, trouble on the streets and London will make up the shortfall.........or maybe not???
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
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Bud - I am a dedicated supporter of business being left to find its own level without interference from outsiders dictating who should sell what etc. If a business is unprofitable and unsustainable then it will fail, that will then leave a clearer path forward. Until that happens then speculation and pontificating from a moral high ground is pointless.
I am also a dedicated supporter of competition, trying to stifle one market to artificially attempt to revive another is foolhardy at best. In the last few years I have used Harbour, Aldergrove and Dublin because of price, convenience and choice available. Long may this continue.
Larry - I wouldn`t put too much play on a companies financial reports, these companies pay accountants to use as many loopholes and clauses as possible to reduce taxes and fees due, if I recall Harbour had large amounts of "inter company loans" to repay which reduced profits to almost zero.
If Aldergrove has a better product to offer pax/airlines then Harbour will suffer and ultimately fail but I doubt this is imminent. Aldergrove have been reactionary to competition for the last several years, they have objected at every turn to seats for sale at Harbour, objected to runway extension at Harbour and sponsored the "local concerned residents", all in an attempt to undermine a competitor. If only they had applied the same effort to fixing their own problems instead of thinking that they should be some sort of priority case for aviation than things might be different.
I am also a dedicated supporter of competition, trying to stifle one market to artificially attempt to revive another is foolhardy at best. In the last few years I have used Harbour, Aldergrove and Dublin because of price, convenience and choice available. Long may this continue.
Larry - I wouldn`t put too much play on a companies financial reports, these companies pay accountants to use as many loopholes and clauses as possible to reduce taxes and fees due, if I recall Harbour had large amounts of "inter company loans" to repay which reduced profits to almost zero.
If Aldergrove has a better product to offer pax/airlines then Harbour will suffer and ultimately fail but I doubt this is imminent. Aldergrove have been reactionary to competition for the last several years, they have objected at every turn to seats for sale at Harbour, objected to runway extension at Harbour and sponsored the "local concerned residents", all in an attempt to undermine a competitor. If only they had applied the same effort to fixing their own problems instead of thinking that they should be some sort of priority case for aviation than things might be different.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Thank you panpanpanpan,
Firstly I'm not on the moral high ground. If it seems that way I apologise.
I am a supporter of free competition too. The market will adjust and find its place over time.
I agree BFS needs an improved facility but with limited ability to charge rates to its airline that can see adequate investment this shows the impact of this leverage that airlines have in this very competitive environment.
Easyjet it a deterrent to airlines going to BFS, with any competing seeks out a point of difference ie BHD , Jet2 is significantly differentiated to withstand EZY competition ex BFS. Moreover, I can see BFS luring FR through sheer desparation to grow traffic for the new owners ... This could put a whole different spin on things.
Firstly I'm not on the moral high ground. If it seems that way I apologise.
I am a supporter of free competition too. The market will adjust and find its place over time.
I agree BFS needs an improved facility but with limited ability to charge rates to its airline that can see adequate investment this shows the impact of this leverage that airlines have in this very competitive environment.
Easyjet it a deterrent to airlines going to BFS, with any competing seeks out a point of difference ie BHD , Jet2 is significantly differentiated to withstand EZY competition ex BFS. Moreover, I can see BFS luring FR through sheer desparation to grow traffic for the new owners ... This could put a whole different spin on things.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Did anyone see the Air Berlin A330 D-ALPE that diverted into BFS this morning?
Doing Dusseldorf - Fort Myers landed around 10:15 this morning and went around 11:30 to Fort Myers.
Doing Dusseldorf - Fort Myers landed around 10:15 this morning and went around 11:30 to Fort Myers.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Ah is in Canada...no in a word but a little late in the year for anyone to launch as many folks already booked other means of getting to Canada but good luck to Citywings when they start.