BIRMINGHAM - 5
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Madrid, Aer Lingus, flybe
Madrid
I agree with ATNotts although BA will know exactly how many pax originate from the Midlands and they will know the potential O & D and transit market from published data but they would be crazy to think they have a captive market.
BMI Baby proved that there was a market between BHX-MAD pre-recession but unfortunately not a profitable one, although this should not rule it out in the future. The obvious one when more 175's are available is a flybe aircraft with a BA/IB code-share
Cloud1 - The second 175 has only been in service two days and it will be on its 16th sector shortly!!!!! Should start Stuttgart and Hamburg tomorrow for a week.
Aer Lingus
Winter changes - the Thursday and Friday 4th Dublin of the day has gone but Saturday is now three flights up one and Sunday four up one.
I agree with ATNotts although BA will know exactly how many pax originate from the Midlands and they will know the potential O & D and transit market from published data but they would be crazy to think they have a captive market.
BMI Baby proved that there was a market between BHX-MAD pre-recession but unfortunately not a profitable one, although this should not rule it out in the future. The obvious one when more 175's are available is a flybe aircraft with a BA/IB code-share
Cloud1 - The second 175 has only been in service two days and it will be on its 16th sector shortly!!!!! Should start Stuttgart and Hamburg tomorrow for a week.
Aer Lingus
Winter changes - the Thursday and Friday 4th Dublin of the day has gone but Saturday is now three flights up one and Sunday four up one.
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Birmingham airport plans to move terminal buildings
Paste the title at the top into Google for a link to the article.
Birmingham airport’s boss last week unveiled plans to relocate its terminal buildings to strengthen connections with the planned High Speed 2 (HS2) rail network.
Speaking at NCE’s Airport Design and Engineering conference in London, operator Birmingham Airport’s chief executive Paul Kehoe said he wanted to embark on a consultation about moving the passenger terminals, though not the runway, closer to the Birmingham International station.
“This could result in moving the airport 1km eastwards,” Kehoe told delegates. “It may sound daft but it has to happen.”
He explained that the runway and airside operations would remain where they are today while airport passenger handling operations - such as check-in, baggage handling and security - would move.
This would have the benefit of freeing up space so more passengers and flights could be handled said Kehoe.
Current plans
Current plans for High Speed 2 (HS2), confirmed by transport secretary Justine Greening in January, involve building a new Birmingham Interchange station that would connect HS2 passengers to the airport and the National Exhibition Centre via a people mover (NCE 26 January).
These plans reveal that scheme promoter High Speed Two Ltd (HS2 Ltd) considered moving the new station closer to the airport but ruled it out because of the “very significant knock-on effects” it would have to the local community.
Kehoe subsequently told NCE that proposals to move the terminal closer to the station would be less contentious although environmental impact assessments would be carried out for the new station and new terminus, he said.
“This is an opportunity we want to exploit,” added Kehoe. “We’re keen to talk to consultants about how we would plan the move.”
The airport’s existing facilities have recently undergone a major upgrade, including construction of a new £45M pier to handle international traffic that was completed in 2009 (NCE 10 September 2009).
Plans could also include creating an enterprise zone around the airport and station said Kehoe. Any development around the new station would be led by Solihull Council, not HS2 Ltd, according to an HS2 Ltd spokesman.
The operator has also begun a £33M runway extension project - due for completion in 2014. This, with the new pier will allow it to handle larger aircraft .
Speaking at NCE’s Airport Design and Engineering conference in London, operator Birmingham Airport’s chief executive Paul Kehoe said he wanted to embark on a consultation about moving the passenger terminals, though not the runway, closer to the Birmingham International station.
“This could result in moving the airport 1km eastwards,” Kehoe told delegates. “It may sound daft but it has to happen.”
He explained that the runway and airside operations would remain where they are today while airport passenger handling operations - such as check-in, baggage handling and security - would move.
This would have the benefit of freeing up space so more passengers and flights could be handled said Kehoe.
Current plans
Current plans for High Speed 2 (HS2), confirmed by transport secretary Justine Greening in January, involve building a new Birmingham Interchange station that would connect HS2 passengers to the airport and the National Exhibition Centre via a people mover (NCE 26 January).
These plans reveal that scheme promoter High Speed Two Ltd (HS2 Ltd) considered moving the new station closer to the airport but ruled it out because of the “very significant knock-on effects” it would have to the local community.
Kehoe subsequently told NCE that proposals to move the terminal closer to the station would be less contentious although environmental impact assessments would be carried out for the new station and new terminus, he said.
“This is an opportunity we want to exploit,” added Kehoe. “We’re keen to talk to consultants about how we would plan the move.”
The airport’s existing facilities have recently undergone a major upgrade, including construction of a new £45M pier to handle international traffic that was completed in 2009 (NCE 10 September 2009).
Plans could also include creating an enterprise zone around the airport and station said Kehoe. Any development around the new station would be led by Solihull Council, not HS2 Ltd, according to an HS2 Ltd spokesman.
The operator has also begun a £33M runway extension project - due for completion in 2014. This, with the new pier will allow it to handle larger aircraft .
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AMM 626
I think what he means is that their will be facilities by the new railway station to check in and process your luggage for people arriving by train or bus there..Not that drastic, doesn't this happen similarly at a number of rail stations in London already for Heathrow ?
It could be a pipe dream anyway the HS2 could be scrapped after recent independent studies set up by the Govt said it wasnt financially viable,we shall see.
I think what he means is that their will be facilities by the new railway station to check in and process your luggage for people arriving by train or bus there..Not that drastic, doesn't this happen similarly at a number of rail stations in London already for Heathrow ?
It could be a pipe dream anyway the HS2 could be scrapped after recent independent studies set up by the Govt said it wasnt financially viable,we shall see.
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The Elmdon managers may need to time this one very carefully...as Nigel says the HST could be scrapped. It could be another twenty-year on-off vital transport infrastructure saga that allegedly upsets different groups of voters at different times.
Ring any bells?
They shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to move the BHX terminal. HST1 started off from a huge terminal at London-Waterloo, with trains departing in a southwestly direction for a destination to the south east of London.
So millions was spent on a flyover for a chord linking the south west mainline to the existing London-Victoria mainline. A Eurostar terminal at Victoria would have been easier. That infrastructure now lies empty and unused.
Then the Eurostar moved to London-St Pancras, with trains departing in a northerly direction for a destination to the south east of London, so a new track had to be built via Stratford.
An excellent location for an HST interchange one might think, and so it should be, but the numpties built "Stratford International" a mile away from the existing Stratford regional interchange station.
And so it will be with the HS2 on existing plans. Rather than using the main Birmingham-New street station, one of the countries biggest interchanges, the HST will terminate at Curzon Street. The BHX HS2 station will also be separate from the existing BHX station. It's Stratford all over again.
So the headline gain of the HST saving 15 minutes on a trip to London is more than lost because of the extra time taken to access the HST from existing railway hubs. Crazy nonsense, isn't it! It's a serious lack of "joined-up" thinking.
Will anyone see the stupidity of this, and change the routing? Shouldn't the new railway come past the already existing airport terminal? Will it ever get built? if so will we still be alive?
The rest of the article was quite illuminating. It would be fantastic if BHX could follow the MAN example (once the runway extension is complete) and attract more long haul routes. The larger UK airports (apart from LHR and LGW) have great potential for development and have plenty of capacity.
Regretably, over the years, policy-makers have allowed KL and EK to syphon off traffic via their hubs and other carriers appear not to be able to make money on direct flights as a result.
Ring any bells?
They shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to move the BHX terminal. HST1 started off from a huge terminal at London-Waterloo, with trains departing in a southwestly direction for a destination to the south east of London.
So millions was spent on a flyover for a chord linking the south west mainline to the existing London-Victoria mainline. A Eurostar terminal at Victoria would have been easier. That infrastructure now lies empty and unused.
Then the Eurostar moved to London-St Pancras, with trains departing in a northerly direction for a destination to the south east of London, so a new track had to be built via Stratford.
An excellent location for an HST interchange one might think, and so it should be, but the numpties built "Stratford International" a mile away from the existing Stratford regional interchange station.
And so it will be with the HS2 on existing plans. Rather than using the main Birmingham-New street station, one of the countries biggest interchanges, the HST will terminate at Curzon Street. The BHX HS2 station will also be separate from the existing BHX station. It's Stratford all over again.
So the headline gain of the HST saving 15 minutes on a trip to London is more than lost because of the extra time taken to access the HST from existing railway hubs. Crazy nonsense, isn't it! It's a serious lack of "joined-up" thinking.
Will anyone see the stupidity of this, and change the routing? Shouldn't the new railway come past the already existing airport terminal? Will it ever get built? if so will we still be alive?
The rest of the article was quite illuminating. It would be fantastic if BHX could follow the MAN example (once the runway extension is complete) and attract more long haul routes. The larger UK airports (apart from LHR and LGW) have great potential for development and have plenty of capacity.
Regretably, over the years, policy-makers have allowed KL and EK to syphon off traffic via their hubs and other carriers appear not to be able to make money on direct flights as a result.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 1st Jun 2012 at 15:59.
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Stockholm
SAS Stockholm now bookable daily except Saturday.
Monday-Friaday SK2553/4 in at 12.50 out 13.30
Sunday SK2553/4 in 13.00 out 13.40
Aircraft 737 series - first flight showing 29/10 as a 738 but 73W's
and 736's are showing as well on various dates.
Great news although I suppose we should wait for the press release
as things have disappeared from timetables before the official announcement
has seen the light of day.
Monday-Friaday SK2553/4 in at 12.50 out 13.30
Sunday SK2553/4 in 13.00 out 13.40
Aircraft 737 series - first flight showing 29/10 as a 738 but 73W's
and 736's are showing as well on various dates.
Great news although I suppose we should wait for the press release
as things have disappeared from timetables before the official announcement
has seen the light of day.
the HST will terminate at Curzon Street
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Quote: "What you may not realise is that Curzon Street used to be the mainline station linking Euston with Birmingham, and the extremely grand facade remains in existence. It really wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith (or money) to link the Birmingham terminus of HS2 to the heart of the city, and much as the Olympics has done for East London, would also do much to regenerate a tired area close to the City centre."
Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?
It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....
Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?
It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 2nd Jun 2012 at 13:29.
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Curzon Street.
Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other.
But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.
An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre.
But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.
An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre.
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Quote: "Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other.
But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.
An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre."
OK, admit defeat on Curzon Street, and certainly would want to see it used as a station, but still have to question the whole viability of HS2 as it is presently constituted.
That said, still believe that the bosses at Elmdon should not be too much of a hurry to shift the terminal. However, it is good to see long term planning and some thinking "outside the box" on their part!
But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.
An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre."
OK, admit defeat on Curzon Street, and certainly would want to see it used as a station, but still have to question the whole viability of HS2 as it is presently constituted.
That said, still believe that the bosses at Elmdon should not be too much of a hurry to shift the terminal. However, it is good to see long term planning and some thinking "outside the box" on their part!
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Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank:7222885
Quote: "What you may not realise is that Curzon Street used to be the mainline station linking Euston with Birmingham, and the extremely grand facade remains in existence. It really wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith (or money) to link the Birmingham terminus of HS2 to the heart of the city, and much as the Olympics has done for East London, would also do much to regenerate a tired area close to the City centre."
Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?
It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....
Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?
It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....
If you are going to build a new train line a long distance it may as well be fast.
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Don't forget HS2 was adopted as a sop to the LibDems to help secure a working majority coalition government. Chinese whispers abound regarding the third Heathrow runway being back on the cards despite all of the bluster from Boris. Regarding Curzon Street being a terminus for the initial stage of HS2 any approach from the south or south east would have to be tunneled or elevated as would any onward extension. I can not think of a worse suggestion for a Birmingham terminus with the exception of New St. New St is hampered by being too central and has restricted access to the station consisting of two tunnels at both ends. Capacity has been reached for years and delays are a way of life.
If, and it is a big if, HS2 goes ahead then another terminus site will have to be found and a mass transit system put into place to connect BHX and New St. East of the city centre has the best locations and motorway access from all directions and would be closer to BHX. The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.
If, and it is a big if, HS2 goes ahead then another terminus site will have to be found and a mass transit system put into place to connect BHX and New St. East of the city centre has the best locations and motorway access from all directions and would be closer to BHX. The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.
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Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto.
The Brum outskirts station will be at BHX and by the motorway, and no one seriously does not think that there will soon - 2026 being the estimate - be need for additional track capacity on the WCML. The opponents of HS2 don't argue the extra capacity will not be required rather that quieter stops should lose their services.
Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.
The Brum outskirts station will be at BHX and by the motorway, and no one seriously does not think that there will soon - 2026 being the estimate - be need for additional track capacity on the WCML. The opponents of HS2 don't argue the extra capacity will not be required rather that quieter stops should lose their services.
Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.
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Quote: "Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other."
Even if Curzon Street is as close as a 5 minute walk, would pax (possibly carrying baggage) connecting from other places in the conurbation via New Street be bothered to do it, and have to pay the HS2 supplement for the priveledge)? With a 5 minute walk, the 15 minute time saving becomes 10 minutes, is it really worth it? People want convenience and lack of hassle.
Quote: "But HS2 is not about shaving time of train journeys, it is about adding additional capacity that will be required on the WCML before the end of the 2020s."
Yes it is! that's exactly what it's about.
Quote: "Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto."
Whether it's a Conservative or a Libdem vanity project is a moot point. It's also got the fingerprints of Labour's Andrew Adonis all over it. They're all too keen to waste public money while cutting vital services and attacking public servants.
There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (as is being done at Reading at present), etc..
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
Even if Curzon Street is as close as a 5 minute walk, would pax (possibly carrying baggage) connecting from other places in the conurbation via New Street be bothered to do it, and have to pay the HS2 supplement for the priveledge)? With a 5 minute walk, the 15 minute time saving becomes 10 minutes, is it really worth it? People want convenience and lack of hassle.
Quote: "But HS2 is not about shaving time of train journeys, it is about adding additional capacity that will be required on the WCML before the end of the 2020s."
Yes it is! that's exactly what it's about.
Quote: "Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto."
Whether it's a Conservative or a Libdem vanity project is a moot point. It's also got the fingerprints of Labour's Andrew Adonis all over it. They're all too keen to waste public money while cutting vital services and attacking public servants.
There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (as is being done at Reading at present), etc..
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 3rd Jun 2012 at 12:19.
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Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.
There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (it's being done at Reading at present), etc..
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.
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Fairdealfrank.
The most recent drawings in the Birmingham Mail show a large covered walkway all the way from Curzon Street linking up with either the Bull Ring or New Street Station,and supposedly moving walkways.
Not sure how it would fit having a quick look at the angles between etc, but Im no architect so what do I know ?
The cost too !
Nigel
The most recent drawings in the Birmingham Mail show a large covered walkway all the way from Curzon Street linking up with either the Bull Ring or New Street Station,and supposedly moving walkways.
Not sure how it would fit having a quick look at the angles between etc, but Im no architect so what do I know ?
The cost too !
Nigel
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Fairdealfrank - show me the HS2 or DfT documents that big up the time savings as the reason for the project.
You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.
For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.
Reports have been done by Network Rail, a shed loads of consultants, the DfT, HS2 and all come back showing the most effective way to resolve those capacity issues is new tracks.
So, if you build new tracks do you build them at high or low speed if the price is very similar.
Anyway, I await with interest these reports from the DfT or HS2 showing that this is all about speed and not capacity, I may have quite some wait though.
Edit - the DfT economic case for HS2...
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publication...sal-update.pdf
Almost all of what is based on extra capacity to avoid the problems that are coming down the line in the next 20 odd years if nothing is done.
You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.
For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.
Reports have been done by Network Rail, a shed loads of consultants, the DfT, HS2 and all come back showing the most effective way to resolve those capacity issues is new tracks.
So, if you build new tracks do you build them at high or low speed if the price is very similar.
Anyway, I await with interest these reports from the DfT or HS2 showing that this is all about speed and not capacity, I may have quite some wait though.
Edit - the DfT economic case for HS2...
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publication...sal-update.pdf
Almost all of what is based on extra capacity to avoid the problems that are coming down the line in the next 20 odd years if nothing is done.
Last edited by Manchester Kurt; 3rd Jun 2012 at 14:43.
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Re Rail capsacity.
I think that the extra capacity issue is just as important if not more so than the extra speed.
Our current rail lines are reaching capacity and seems the only way to increase that is to take high speed trains off the current ones and put local trains on them. At least the HS2 lines would allow that.
Anyway we are all getting way off aviation, so I won't comment further.
Nigel
I think that the extra capacity issue is just as important if not more so than the extra speed.
Our current rail lines are reaching capacity and seems the only way to increase that is to take high speed trains off the current ones and put local trains on them. At least the HS2 lines would allow that.
Anyway we are all getting way off aviation, so I won't comment further.
Nigel