BIRMINGHAM - 5

[radar707]

BHX is approved as a diversion alternate for Emirates only due to taxiway restrictions. Their crews practice diverting in the Sims. No othether A380 operator is approved for diversions to Brumm

[ATNotts]

Can BHX handle the 380?

This urban myth (that BHX cannot handle the 380) seems to have taken over from the urban myth of the latter half of the last century (that you couldn't go transatlantic non stop from BHX) which persisted long after 757s were ploughing their way across the pond!

Silly questions from today's spotters do the airport no great service, as all sorts of equally dim journalists also trawl these forums and believe almost everything they read!

[Planeaddict]

I do not see what the problem with an A380 is.

The only problem I personally see is, simply, the runway length. Do you think with a near full load, or even full load, it could manage to take off? Don't see the harm with having to use almost the entire runway.

Where did you read this? AFAIK the 764 only subbed for a tech 757.

That's what I meant. But still, could you see them operating with a 767 in the future, or at least a larger aircraft if the demand supports it?

No othether A380 operator is approved for diversions to Brumm

No other A380 operator is likely to divert to BHX anyway, if we're talking about the likes of Singapore which operate to LHR. They are likely to divert to LGW or MAN.

[chinapattern]

That's what I meant. But still, could you see them operating with a 767 in the future, or at least a larger aircraft if the demand supports it?

Doubt it, the 767's are way to premium heavy for BHX's market and United are replacing them with the 787's anyway. BHX will probably be one the last 757's destinations and when they're gone, who knows.

[OltonPete]

United

planespotters.net is currently showing: -

764 - C35 Y200 or C20 Y236

763 -F36 Y210 plus others with FCY

788 - C36 Y183

I couldn't see a 767 with CY other than the 762 but I thought they were introducing this on the 763 for transatlantics.

As you can see nothing really fits the BHX flight although C20 on the 764 would be useful but 236Y is a lot of seats to fill.

As Chinapattern has stated the 757's are staying for a few years yet although some are 18 years plus and might disappear soon. However some are only 12/13 years old, giving United plenty of time to change the transatlantic config on the 763/788 to suit BHX, EDI, GLA, BFS, SNN, DUB, MAN etc.

Pete

[rutankrd]

The two class 763 aircraft were former Hawaii/West Coast vacation fleet.

A sub fleet of 14 aircraft and not those that have been plying the atlantic for many years.

The dusting includes with 30 lie-flat BusinessFirst seats, 49 Economy Plus and 135 regular economy seats.

And they are staying for some time.

They are being deployed on routes replacing the now removed business heavy and former Continental B762 models to such places as Zurich/Milan/Amsterdam/Madrid.

They are not planned 75W replacements.

Manchester may see them for the boost in box uplift, however it's going to be some time before Birmingham is in line.

[adfly]

Wikipedia (salt pinched) says one of their 764 configurations is 236Y/20J so not a huge jump in premium capacity verses the current 752, although there's quite a few extra Y seats to fill. But assuming that layout is still around in a few years time I don't see why United couldn't send it to BHX even if it were only for the summer.

[OltonPete]

United

rutankrd

Thank you for that, I had heard it would be 30 plus for BF and as you say BHX will be way down the list (if ever) with that kind of config.

I would love to know what is the BF take-up on full fares as the seat map regular shows it full from BHX & MAN but I realise over the year there are probably loads of FF upgrades but I wonder if eventually (assuming all the post 757 services continue) that they will be tempted to change the BF config to 20-24.

Pete

[justplanecrazy84]

Spitfire crash landing closes East Midlands Airport runway - Telegraph

[hillwalker2004]

Quite a few interesting mentions of BHX from Willie Walsh at the Transport select committee from a few weeks ago. I know some of this has already been touched upon but thought I'd cut and paste a few specific bits.

Q248 Iain Stewart: You did have a regional hub at Birmingham for some time and then you discontinued that. Can you segregate the transfer market into long-haul intercontinental against European transfers? If so, could you then restart a secondary hub at Birmingham or some other airport?
Willie Walsh: I have looked at some of the figures. Manchester airport is probably the best example. I know Birmingham has ambition and has expanded its runway, but from memory-I can probably check the figures and I have them here somewhere-the passenger traffic at Birmingham has been in decline for the last few years. I don’t think an extended runway is going to make a big difference there, to be honest with you.

Re: WW support for HS2.
Q256 Karen Lumley: But don’t you see any aspect for Birmingham Airport, for example, where people would come out of the north of London and it would be easier to get to Birmingham to use that than to go to Heathrow?
Willie Walsh: Yes, if you have the flights from Birmingham. But, if you want to fly to China, you are not going to have flights from Birmingham. If you want to fly to thousands of destinations, you are not going to have those flights from Birmingham, which is primarily a short-haul leisure market. That is the nature of it if you look at the passenger profile flying from Birmingham. Is that going to change? It might change a little but it is not going to change an awful lot.


Q257 Karen Lumley: There is no way you see yourself going back to Birmingham.
Willie Walsh: No, I don’t. Certainly I don’t see any business case or business justification for us to operate long-haul flights from Birmingham. It may attract a couple of other foreign airlines to operate into Birmingham, but not on a scale that will make any difference and certainly not on a scale that would justify the investment in HS2. If the business case for HS2 is to connect to Birmingham airport, I would really worry. If there is a business case to connect to Birmingham airport, there must be a business case that is 20, 30, 50 or 100 times more robust to connect to Heathrow. So I just don’t see it.

[Daza]

hillwalker2004 wrote

Q257 Karen Lumley: There is no way you see yourself going back to Birmingham.
Willie Walsh: No, I don’t. Certainly I don’t see any business case or business justification for us to operate long-haul flights from Birmingham. It may attract a couple of other foreign airlines to operate into Birmingham, but not on a scale that will make any difference and certainly not on a scale that would justify the investment in HS2. If the business case for HS2 is to connect to Birmingham airport, I would really worry. If there is a business case to connect to Birmingham airport, there must be a business case that is 20, 30, 50 or 100 times more robust to connect to Heathrow. So I just don’t see it.

Did anyone really expect BA to return to the UK regions? Future prosperity and growth of Birmingham Airport will have nothing to do with BA. Willie Walsh desperately needs Heathrow to be expanded as his airline is almost wholly dependent upon it, he doesn't want anything else.

Daza

[Evanelpus]

Q257 Karen Lumley: There is no way you see yourself going back to Birmingham.
Willie Walsh: No, I don’t.

Well, there's no room for misunderstanding of his answer. I tend to agree with Daza, LHR is where it's at for BA for the forseeable future.

[nigel osborne]

Chinapattern,

Thanks for confirming the A380 markings on stand 54C. and agree entirely with you and Olton Pete, 764 has too many business seats for BHX markets.

In general folks

Without 2nd deck loaders Im told by a handler it would take an extra 45 mins to carry all catering etc from the main deck to upper .

However I can't see BHX handlers buying these ultra high loaders unless they get a confirmed regular A380 flight from Emirates, must be very expensive.

Does BHX have an A380 tow bar..think they are very expensive too

I can see British Airways nominating BHX as a diversion airport when they get their A380s soon..not that it means they will divert here as their 747/777s have ignored BHX for nearly 2 yrs for some reason ?

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

Future prosperity and growth of Birmingham Airport will have nothing to do with BA

Totally agree with you Daza, it's such a shame that for a long time BHX managers DID think BA was the future for prosperity and growth and that it was not in those pesky loco start ups, ahh hindsight is such a wonderful thing although BHX has come a long way since BA's departure

I have heard however from a trusty source that BA will be doing some A380 flight training runs through BHX so at least they think BHX is good for something!

[simoncorbett]

Nigel
I do seem to remember I read that all of the EK 380,s carry a tow bar on board...just in case
Also I can't see Bhx needing all the equipment at the moment, but I am sure if EK have told Bhx they will use a380,s on regular flights that they would get all the equipment needed
I do think that we have now 'enough ' equipment and suitable taxiways etc to handle diversions of EK only 380 aircraft


Simon

[crewmeal]

As the runway is being extended why don't they do something with the taxiways as well? It seems logical that they need widening especially at the Sheldon end of 33.

BBC News - Emirates jet stuck in grass at Birmingham Airport

Here is an example of why they should be widened.

[LAX_LHR]

I have heard however from a trusty source that BA will be doing some A380 flight training runs through BHX so at least they think BHX is good for something!

I can categorically state that BA are NOT sending the A380 to BHX, neither for training or diversions.

The designated diversion points for BA and the A380 fleet will be LGW/MAN/PIK only. STN may be used if at a push or for a particular type of diversion that STN has been designated for.

[Planeaddict]

their 747/777s have ignored BHX for nearly 2 yrs for some reason ?

Probably because it hasn't snowed as badly as 2010?

I'm pretty sure they will modify the taxiways, but I think that'll only be more beneficial for the A380 and possibly 747.

I take it Air Algerie isn't going ahead, as someone mentioned they had only booked slots?

[ATNotts]

I'm pretty sure they will modify the taxiways, but I think that'll only be more beneficial for the A380 and possibly 747.

If I recall correctly, the 773 has a longer wheelbase (sorry for that extremely untechnical term!!) than either the 747 or 380, so there would be a greater issue with manoeuverability of the former than either of the "Jumbos".

747s have been regular visitors to BHX for nearly 3 decades, the dearth of the type in recent years has more to do with the economics of operating big twins than an unwillingness of operators to put them through BHX.

Diversions are now also rare occurences because of Cat IIIB operations at most major airports.

Were a carrier to decide to opperate regular services with the A380 I feel confident that the handling agents would ensure the appropriate equipment would be available, but exactly who is going invest in such equipment "just in case"? Certainly not commercial operations that expect / require to turn a profit.

[Planeaddict]

747s have been regular visitors to BHX for nearly 3 decades, the dearth of the type in recent years has more to do with the economics of operating big twins than an unwillingness of operators to put them through BHX.

My only theory is the runway. When PIA began, the 747 proved quite popular but it couldn't fly direct (I doubt it would have been able to do so with half the load) so they had to fly via Copenhagen. Hellenic managed fine due to the fact they were only flying to Athens but load factors were poor. Maybe at some point they'll manage a regular 747 service.