Ryanair - 8
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"Like that red football team in the city, Manchester Airport thinks it's god's gift to airports but I'm not honoured to be flying with them."
MICHAEL O'LEARY, RYANAIR
(INSIDER NEWS, 11 May 2011)
Interesting. Make what you will of that!
These comments were made in Yorkshire and aimed at a Yorkshire audience, MOL is well known for tailoring his comments to endear himself to the locals. It is highly possible he could make totally contradictory statements at a similar function in Greater Manchester.
MICHAEL O'LEARY, RYANAIR
(INSIDER NEWS, 11 May 2011)
Interesting. Make what you will of that!
These comments were made in Yorkshire and aimed at a Yorkshire audience, MOL is well known for tailoring his comments to endear himself to the locals. It is highly possible he could make totally contradictory statements at a similar function in Greater Manchester.
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Kerry Airport are in talks with a number of carriers to take over the KIR - DUB PSO route. The Gov will cover 2 daily return flights. Aer Arann and Flybe are two of the airlines. It will be interesting to so what FR will do if one of them takes on the route.
ASFKAP - I would very much doubt you'll be seeing sales for 1 cent / 1 penny, except on the most abysmally performing routes in the lowest of seasons.
There's too many people out there with a prepaid Mastercard who when they see a 1 cent sale, will just buy up seats on lots of dates, on the expectation that they will fly very few of them indeed. If you buy up a seat on 1,000 different flights, the total price is 10 euros - the only real cost is the time reentering your details on the website. If you don't expect to use a flight,you are most unlikelyto book a hotel or bus transfer through FR's website.
If you don't take the flight, FR thus end up with zero ancillary revenue. If you do show up, FR still have to pay airport fees and any kind of Govt tax - unlikely to be covered by the profits on selling a sandwich + coffee on the flight.
IMHO, the only benefit to Ryanair of a 1 cent sale would be as a marketing tool (bait and switch) to drum up demand at the very lowest of seasons, e.g. mid November
Selling seats for at least 5 euros means that even with a prepaid Mastercard, it becomes much less likely that a single person will buy up dozens of tickets without expecting to use them. I suspect also that if someone genuinely wants a ticket for a flight, 5 euros will be low enough to grab their interest
There's too many people out there with a prepaid Mastercard who when they see a 1 cent sale, will just buy up seats on lots of dates, on the expectation that they will fly very few of them indeed. If you buy up a seat on 1,000 different flights, the total price is 10 euros - the only real cost is the time reentering your details on the website. If you don't expect to use a flight,you are most unlikelyto book a hotel or bus transfer through FR's website.
If you don't take the flight, FR thus end up with zero ancillary revenue. If you do show up, FR still have to pay airport fees and any kind of Govt tax - unlikely to be covered by the profits on selling a sandwich + coffee on the flight.
IMHO, the only benefit to Ryanair of a 1 cent sale would be as a marketing tool (bait and switch) to drum up demand at the very lowest of seasons, e.g. mid November
Selling seats for at least 5 euros means that even with a prepaid Mastercard, it becomes much less likely that a single person will buy up dozens of tickets without expecting to use them. I suspect also that if someone genuinely wants a ticket for a flight, 5 euros will be low enough to grab their interest
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^^^ what davidjohnson6 said.
Until last year I used FR regularly on a relatively thin domestic route; i.e. one that was always included in the promotion on FR's homepage. While it lasted, I hoovered up as many £0.01 and £1 fares as I thought I might night and used maybe 10 - 15% of them. However from 2009/10 onwards, then £0.01, £1, £3 etc sales started to dry up. While there are still some single digit sales from time to time, it seems revenue management are pushing even the cheapest promotional fares up.
Until last year I used FR regularly on a relatively thin domestic route; i.e. one that was always included in the promotion on FR's homepage. While it lasted, I hoovered up as many £0.01 and £1 fares as I thought I might night and used maybe 10 - 15% of them. However from 2009/10 onwards, then £0.01, £1, £3 etc sales started to dry up. While there are still some single digit sales from time to time, it seems revenue management are pushing even the cheapest promotional fares up.
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Until last year I used FR regularly on a relatively thin domestic route; i.e. one that was always included in the promotion on FR's homepage. While it lasted, I hoovered up as many £0.01 and £1 fares as I thought I might night and used maybe 10 - 15% of them. However from 2009/10 onwards, then £0.01, £1, £3 etc sales started to dry up. While there are still some single digit sales from time to time, it seems revenue management are pushing even the cheapest promotional fares up.
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I loved the days of the £0.01 flights but dont think they will be back ever, But who cares I still get Stansted-Lanzarote rtn all in for £35 rtn No other Airline can or would sell seats at this price.
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What nonsense. Nothing to stop you doing the same. Seems perfectly sensible to me. It does call in to question the actual numbers of seats sold versus seats used .....and as for yield
Not surprising really with people like you spoiling it for people who actually intended to travel. I hope you feel proud.
What nonsense. Nothing to stop you doing the same. Seems perfectly sensible to me. It does call in to question the actual numbers of seats sold versus seats used .....and as for yield
ASFKAP - while in theory it would be beneficial to Aer Lingus to take such an action, if an Aer Lingus employee ever admitted to doing this or FR were able to show that Aer Lingus were taking such an action (e.g. via tracing the IP address of the purchaser), it is likely that the ensuing press storm, along with all the noise and bluster coming from MOL would do a lot of damage to EI. Does Irish or EU law perhaps have a concept of unfair competition, and would such a practice count as unfair ?
If a private individual were to buy up seats for 1 cent, 2 questions might arise:
1) - Can I possibly see myself wanting to spend money on getting to the airport and take this flight even if the flight is free ? If not, why am I wasting my time entering my address and credit card details on this website ? It takes a minimum of a minute to go through the booking process - 100 bookings means over 90 mins of your time possibly wasted.
As an analogy, many farmers with livestock have plenty of free "organic fertiliser" available on a farm - doesn't mean anyone wants to take it home with them !
2) - If I buy up over a thousand flights, do I trust FR enough not to try to take revenge in some way (e.g. being banned from FR flights for some trumped up reason) ?
If a private individual were to buy up seats for 1 cent, 2 questions might arise:
1) - Can I possibly see myself wanting to spend money on getting to the airport and take this flight even if the flight is free ? If not, why am I wasting my time entering my address and credit card details on this website ? It takes a minimum of a minute to go through the booking process - 100 bookings means over 90 mins of your time possibly wasted.
As an analogy, many farmers with livestock have plenty of free "organic fertiliser" available on a farm - doesn't mean anyone wants to take it home with them !
2) - If I buy up over a thousand flights, do I trust FR enough not to try to take revenge in some way (e.g. being banned from FR flights for some trumped up reason) ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 14th Jun 2011 at 16:25.
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Kerry Airport are in talks with a number of carriers to take over the KIR - DUB PSO route. The Gov will cover 2 daily return flights. Aer Arann and Flybe are two of the airlines. It will be interesting to so what FR will do if one of them takes on the route.
What Kerry MIGHT be doing is encouraging airlines to apply for the tender.....
MD
Given CAA have upheld FR's complaint against Gatwick Airport I reckon FR will be seeking a return of fees charged dating back 5 years plus interest.
Could be a fairly big sum involved.
Could be a fairly big sum involved.
racedo - for those of us with less than perfect memories, would you care to give a brief summary of FR's complaint against Gatwick, and the CAA's rationale for accepting the complaint ? Does the claim fall against BAA, or the current operator ?
DJ
Based on the press release, which is all I have to go on;
Gatwick Airport were charging all passengers of FR (likely other airlines as well) for use of check in desks even when majority of passengers were printing boarding passes at home and not using check in desks.
As whole purpose for removal of check in desk was to reduce costs and fares, Gatwick were charging everybody and also benefitting by selling desk space FR would have used if old system was still in place.
In effect a no lose situation for them, irrespective of what Airlines do, they will charge you.
CAA correct I believe in its decision as like saying to company A you can hire 20 parking spaces for a year and a year later Company A says we will bus people in but use 1 space and gets charged for 20 parking spaces while Company B who owns the spaces then rents 19 out to Company C.
I reckon U2 and others (especially U2 given its size at LGW) will be raising a glass to FR this evening as Gatwick will likely be making refunds or coming to other arrangements.
I don't know when the complaint originated as that will be key.
If the date of original complaint occurred when Gatwick was part of BAA (whether Ferrovial or not) then likely that existing owners will be able to recover part of the costs from them, disputes will have been highlighted in takeover documents even though no idea of outcome, Focus DIY which collapsed last month was able to push back costs onto Halfords from an agreement made in 1988 on leases when they were part of same company.
If complaint only made when Gatwick had been bought by its new owners then
new owners responsible.
Best guess is that BAA were aware of it and it gets sorted out that way with a payment between BAA and New Owners if hasn't already been taken account of.
An example would be if when due diligence was taking place they figured that there was a 80% chance that FR would be succesful and it would cost £2 million then sale price might be reduced by £1.6 million or nothing at all with BAA agreeing to underwrite the risk or combinations of this.
All of the above is speculation as have no inside info.
Based on the press release, which is all I have to go on;
Gatwick Airport were charging all passengers of FR (likely other airlines as well) for use of check in desks even when majority of passengers were printing boarding passes at home and not using check in desks.
As whole purpose for removal of check in desk was to reduce costs and fares, Gatwick were charging everybody and also benefitting by selling desk space FR would have used if old system was still in place.
In effect a no lose situation for them, irrespective of what Airlines do, they will charge you.
CAA correct I believe in its decision as like saying to company A you can hire 20 parking spaces for a year and a year later Company A says we will bus people in but use 1 space and gets charged for 20 parking spaces while Company B who owns the spaces then rents 19 out to Company C.
I reckon U2 and others (especially U2 given its size at LGW) will be raising a glass to FR this evening as Gatwick will likely be making refunds or coming to other arrangements.
I don't know when the complaint originated as that will be key.
If the date of original complaint occurred when Gatwick was part of BAA (whether Ferrovial or not) then likely that existing owners will be able to recover part of the costs from them, disputes will have been highlighted in takeover documents even though no idea of outcome, Focus DIY which collapsed last month was able to push back costs onto Halfords from an agreement made in 1988 on leases when they were part of same company.
If complaint only made when Gatwick had been bought by its new owners then
new owners responsible.
Best guess is that BAA were aware of it and it gets sorted out that way with a payment between BAA and New Owners if hasn't already been taken account of.
An example would be if when due diligence was taking place they figured that there was a 80% chance that FR would be succesful and it would cost £2 million then sale price might be reduced by £1.6 million or nothing at all with BAA agreeing to underwrite the risk or combinations of this.
All of the above is speculation as have no inside info.
racedo - many thanks
Presumably this now strongly encourages Easyjet, and maybe also Flybe, to start charging for airport check-in, and also pushes airports even more towards the replacement of desks with retail units in check-in halls
Presumably this now strongly encourages Easyjet, and maybe also Flybe, to start charging for airport check-in, and also pushes airports even more towards the replacement of desks with retail units in check-in halls
Presumably this now strongly encourages Easyjet, and maybe also Flybe, to start charging for airport check-in, and also pushes airports even more towards the replacement of desks with retail units in check-in halls
I think in less than 2 years there will be generic check in desks for airlines at airports anyway, maybe not LGW but a couple of desks taking care of wherever you are flying, airlines happy as reduces cost and airports happy as reduces space required for desks.
The concept of retail units pre airside has gone away as LGW have moved against it as was impacting on overall service for departing passengers with less security areas and people hogging car parks to shop. T5 did away with this completely aside from coffee shop, newsagent and little else.
I am not sure how far airports have gone in seeking other income areas now that less checkin area required, retail has been hammered so where now.
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Presumably, if this practice has been going on at airports besides Gatwick then FR could clean up elsewhere. I wonder is there a similar situation at Dublin? Does FR have to pay the same fees for Pier D as EI/Delta/AA, etc, that use check-in desks and T2 with airbridges?
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Dublin Airport Charges
Pier B, C & E - Contact Stands
Pier A & D - Remote Stands
Airlines who use Pier A & D pay around half the amount that airlines who use Pier B, C & E before any air bridge charges are added to the carriers who use Per B, C & E.
(Pier C not in use at the monement)
DAA have a set charge per departing passenger depending on weather it is remote of contact stand. Ryanair would have no case.
Pier A & D - Remote Stands
Airlines who use Pier A & D pay around half the amount that airlines who use Pier B, C & E before any air bridge charges are added to the carriers who use Per B, C & E.
(Pier C not in use at the monement)
DAA have a set charge per departing passenger depending on weather it is remote of contact stand. Ryanair would have no case.
DAA have a set charge per departing passenger depending on weather it is remote of contact stand. Ryanair would have no case.
Ryanair had a dispute with DAA who wished to charge for desks and space around them and then when Ryanair had check in Kiosks a number of years ago also to charge for the kiosks even though the space was already paid for.
Mind you DAA not the brightest in the world given their development of checkin areas when airlines are going preprinted tickets.