MANCHESTER - 8

[Ernest Lanc's]

EuroWings

Think about it, he's an eleven year old and it's the start of the school holidays so Terminal 1 is packed out with families and groups. Kids often aren't trusted to keep hold of their own boarding passes and passport, which is entirely sensible. The lad mingles with different families from airside to the plane and they think he's just ahead of/behind his own family, or something like that.

This is IMO and with respect a cop out..An 11 year old is not a kid..Even if a child was not trusted to hold a boarding card, then when the parents hand over the collective passes, there should be a headcount per pass..My daughter has always shown her own documents, and why are kids allowed to mingle before being properly processed?.

As I mentioned before, Manchester Airport no longer has dedicated staff checking boarding passes at the entrance to security, it's done by busy screeners who aren't necessarily in a position to thoroughly check each child in a large group (they might not be able to see them even).

If that is true and I am not doubting your word - Then if busy screeners are not able to do their job and check each child, that in certain circumstances could be dangerous IMO.
Also without the need to wait for the outcome of an enquiry, there should be dedicated staff checking boarding passes at security at an airport the size of MAN.

Jet2's policy was that no headcount was needed, if the aircraft had been boarded via an airbridge directly from the terminal. All UK and Ireland based airlines the cabin crew have to check boarding passes, but headcounts are not compulsory. However, many countries don't have that requirement either.

I can accept that..What I can't accept is a child/person being able to board an aircraft without a boarding card..

I know there are going to be enquiries that will get to the bottom of this matter..But what gets me is the double whammy of a child getting though both airport and airline security.

It's not terrible uncommon for passengers to end up boarding the wrong flight and only noticing when the destination/flight number is mentioned!

It's not the same though - is it?..for that to occur would just mean a boarding card had not been scrutinised as it should have been, at least there would have been a boarding card.
Airport security would not have been at fault, as genuine traveler would have a boarding pass, so would be screened and allowed through.

[750XL]

If only people knew how common this sort of event was

I personally don't see what the huge fuss is all about

[pwalhx]

Given your obvious concern over this incident Ernest I would suggest to be 100% safe do not fly again. We live in a world were mistakes are made, in the greater scheme of things I am sure all of us who have worked or do work at airports can point to similar incidents that never make the papers. The security in the U.K. is not infalable, but I tell you what it is a damn sight better than some places I have been.

[EuroWings]

This is IMO and with respect a cop out..An 11 year old is not a kid..Even if a child was not trusted to hold a boarding card, then when the parents hand over the collective passes, there should be a headcount per pass..My daughter has always shown her own documents, and why are kids allowed to mingle before being properly processed?.

Well, yes an 11 year old is not really a small child, so without trying to blame anyone here, how come this alleged family didn't notice him tagging along? While yes lessons will have to be learned by staff, that aspect of this story actually concerns me just as much....

Aside from that, you obviously keep good control of your family heading through an airport, sadly some parents/guardians don't. I've seen children running ahead or darting about when they should be sticking close to the person holding the documents. Staff are under pressure at busy gate areas and don't have eyes in the back of their head to see a child slipping through.

The security in the U.K. is not infalable, but I tell you what it is a damn sight better than some places I have been.

Manchester actually goes above and beyond the requirements for passenger security screening, with the compulsory use of the (often considered controversial) backscatter X-ray machines if the metal detector picks up anything.

If Gatwick can have automated access gates to security where boarding passes are scanned and a photo taken, I cannot see why Manchester can't have them. It's not like Gatwick doesn't cater for infrequent travellers and large families.

[Ernest Lanc's]

pwalhx

Given your obvious concern over this incident Ernest I would suggest to be 100% safe do not fly again. We live in a world were mistakes are made,

Not just a personal concern as you probably well know..

Had it just been Jet2 making a mistake, I would not even bothered posing the matter.
had it just be a lapse by overworked security staff..the same, you can put them down to one offs.

It was a combination of jet2 and MAN security that I can't understand.

I am sure all of us who have worked or do work at airports can point to similar incidents that never make the papers

Maybe had earlier incidents been reported, then maybe an 11 year old may not have been able to be on his way to Rome, unchallenged.

I am flying from MAN on monday with Jet2, and am probably better off with this matter coming to light..

but I tell you what it is a damn sight better than some places I have been.

No..Please compare us with the best, not saying we are better than less than good.

[Ernest Lanc's]

If Gatwick can have automated access gates to security where boarding passes are scanned and a photo taken, I cannot see why Manchester can't have them. It's not like Gatwick doesn't cater for infrequent travellers and large families.

I agree, and airport as large as MAN should have the best...I also don't think that security staff should be working under pressure, if more manpower is needed - Then a small tariff on such a large pax, should not break us..
I pay an ADF at BLK without quibble, I would pay a small sum at MAN to help man security more effectively.

[Skipness One Echo]

Photos are only taken at LGW and LHR for domestic passengers to prevent people in the common use departure lounge connecting within the UK and getting off without passing through customs.

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious. This kid is a little ****. Eleven year old me would have known this was 1) wrong, 2) risky, 3) been living in fear of the consequences.

This kid is unlikely to be that dumb, eleven is not an infant.
Given the lack of boarding card check before security, the "local" rule at MAN where the clearing security officer checks may have meant that a kind soul thinking he was helping a harrased family through by not checking each kid's paperwork rigorously. At most big UK airports I use, I doubt the kid would have gotten that far. Again the little brat claims he mingled with a family, sounds like he was quite aware.
I see no excuse at the gate though. It's not rocket science alas.

[Ernest Lanc's]

He had left home..he probably had this planned for days.

Given the lack of boarding card check before security, the "local" rule at MAN where the clearing security officer checks may have meant that a kind soul thinking he was helping a harrased family through by not checking each kid's paperwork rigorously.

I have never come across a kind soul at MAN or BLK for that matter,,But if this is right, this kid spotted a chink in security others, not just a little **** might have also.

EuroWings says kids are not always under their parents control, I have not seen that, but I don't doubt EuroWings for one minute.

On the back of that, it must be a rule that parents keep control of their children, or they go to the back of the queue, to be processed at the end..

The only real answer is a dedicated boarding pass checker, they cost money, but is there an alternative?.

[pwalhx]

Ernest, having done the courses I do compare us with the best and the rest do come to us for advice.

I am sorry but you are making one massive mountain out of a molehill.

[Ernest Lanc's]

pwalhx
It can never be a mountain out of a molehill were security is concerned IMO.

There are security breaches, but they need to be minimised..If you knew of similar incidents like this that did not get reported..Then this is not an isolated incident.

All airports and airlines can learn from this..A very clever 11 years old could have been al qaeda.

The UK are militarily involved in sensitive places, and as such are and will remain a target for the foreseeable future..

Not that long ago Glasgow airport was targeted by terrorist..After which armed police with semi automatic machine guns sealed of the terminal.

There was no direct attack on Blackpool, Glasgow was rammed by a burning car, and the police thwarted two attempts in London.

Terrorist attacks when they come, are out of the blue...We had this recent incident and if we can improve security as a result, then that mountain was well made from that molehill.

pwalhx - I am not saying security in MAN or the UK is poor..maybe people do come and ask for advice..Lets make sure we have the best possible advice to give them.

[pwalhx]

Security was not breached he went through the security checks, what did not happen was the paperwork was not checked. He obviously had no bags so no securty issue there. he went through the scanner so obviously no issue there.

Were his actions malicious or mischievous, I think the latter.

I should add I never said previous events at different airports havent been reported, they have and dealt with outside the glare of publicity.

It would frighten you if you knew the number of securitywarnings Manchester and other airports get in a year, despite that people in their 10's of millions fly from british airports quite safely.

[750XL]

It can never be a mountain out of a molehill were security is concerned IMO.

Where exactly is 'security concerned' in this case? Please tell me what harm this 11 year old young chap could've caused?

[Mr Mac]

I use two NW airports (Man & LPL) and have noted that out of the 2 Manchester has had issues with security in the past 12 months on a number of occasions. They are I believ under watch having let 3 a/c from european destinations off load with out clearing immigration within last 12 months. There have been other issues as well. Liverpool does not seem to suffer to the same degree after they changed there security supplier. I do not want to get into the debate re Liverpool or Manchester as I am from Yorkshire and realy I am not that bothered with the tribal differances between these 2 cities. However having said that I have noticed a decline in the Manchester offering recently, and an up swing in that offered by Liverpool.

My main gripes with Machester are parking fees (luckly EK drop me off and pick me up on most trips). Baggage delv times - record for me 1hr 30min - world record holder in my travels and has been that way since it was known as Ringway, and has never improved. Some of the structures are becoming very tired T2 quite shabby, and T3 going same way. T2 ok currently but a bit shopping mall like. Also noticed toilets missing seats on a number of occassions - where do they go even in T2 lounges !!. As a premier gate way they need to raise the bar.

Liverpool security were misrable and jobs worths but have improved. Terminal ok but again tired - why do Brits never clean buildings externaly or very well internaly. Immigration has been ok for me, but it is quite small ,and must get very crowded when football charters are in with larger a/c. But over all for a LOCO center, for that is what it is, it is not bad.

[750XL]

They are I believ under watch having let 3 a/c from european destinations off load with out clearing immigration within last 12 months.

That has nothing to do with the airport itself or security, that's down to handling agent staff (dispatchers). Security have now taken over control of all domestic arrivals doors, and there hasn't been a single mistake since, so security have actually fixed the problem

My main gripes with Machester are parking fees

Use the train, bus, taxi, coach etc instead?

Baggage delv times - record for me 1hr 30min - world record holder in my travels and has been that way since it was known as Ringway, and has never improved

Nothing to do with the airport once again, it's the handling agents.

T2 ok currently but a bit shopping mall like

That's the way all airports are going, they need to make their money somehow.

Also noticed toilets missing seats on a number of occassions

Never once seen a toilet seat missing at MAN, they even won best airport toilets of the year (BBC News - Manchester Airport's toilets win top award)

[EZY7117LPL]

I hope this 11 year old boy faces some serious consequences for his actions. Everyone is quick to blame the staff but their job is very hard - I know what its like to be handed one big pile of passes and everyone is moving around plus you are aware that people are waiting and it needs to be completed as quick as possible.
After all this boy is over 10 years of age and is therfore responsible for his own actions - it is the boy at fault here, and I hope there are some consequences - what he did was wrong.
I would never have even dreamed of doing something like that when I was 11, I cant believe he had the nerve to decieve so many staff and passengers like this.
In this case the media have gone after the easy pickings - ie the airport, airline and staff. There would have been an up roar if they accused the child of doing anything wrong.

Plus I have never been through an airport that doesnt have dedicated staff members checking the boarding cards! It wouldnt take much, just one person with their mind focused on this alone could do it quick enough.

[Richard Taylor]

I'll bet he'll be portrayed as an 11yr old 'character' who is much misunderstood & wouldn't hurt a fly reeeaaallllllyyyyyy...

[Ernest Lanc's]

Originally Posted by pwalhx

I should add I never said previous events at different airports havent been reported, they have and dealt with outside the glare of publicity.

OK..don't we have a right to know then?..Not un-reported. just covered up.

Originally Posted by pwalhx

It would frighten you if you knew the number of
security warnings Manchester and other airports get in a year, despite that people in their 10's of millions fly from british airports quite safel

pwalhx - How many of these security warnings are hoaxes?...Look when I flying I never think a plane will come down, i never think of terrorism..I bet the pax at 9/11 never thought so either.
I agree millions fly every year unharmed, of course you are right..And that probably remain the case.

Originally Posted by 750XL

Where exactly is 'security concerned' in this case? Please tell me what harm this 11 year old young chap could've caused?

I don't believe this..He could well have been 12/13 or 14..He might have had a plastic knife that would have caused panic, who knows?..I don't.

Hey: Had an adult done what this lad had done, they would have been in the chockey, quick time.

In this case the media have gone after the easy pickings - ie the airport, airline and staff. There would have been an up roar if they accused the child of doing anything wrong.

You can't blame the press, you can blame the 11 year old boy though, and so can the police.

[pwalhx]

Covered up, I am sorry do you really think it is in the public interest to advertise this sort of thing, I dont.

Quite frankly I find your comments more frightening and dangerous than anything this young man did.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Covered up, I am sorry do you really think it is in the public interest to advertise this sort of thing, I dont.

You have a right to know, we don't..That's OK then.

Quite frankly I find your comments more frightening and dangerous than anything this young man did.

What I said was on a forum in response to an 11 year old that managed to dupe all and get on an aircraft unauthorised. That is frightening.
That's it from me ..Sick of going round in circles..Last word..If you are 750XL want to make light of this incident..and say how innocuous this lad was, and how he was no security risk..Then I reckon i am way out of touch - with reality.

[750XL]

I don't believe this..He could well have been 12/13 or 14..He might have had a plastic knife that would have caused panic, who knows?..I don't.

Hey: Had an adult done what this lad had done, they would have been in the chockey, quick time.

Right... That still doesn't explain why him boarding the flight was a security risk?

Any one of the passengers on board, or crew for that matter, could of had a 'plastic knife' with them. Him boarding the flight wasn't a security risk