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MANCHESTER - 8

Old 26th Jul 2012, 14:41
  #3801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
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pwalhx

Given your obvious concern over this incident Ernest I would suggest to be 100% safe do not fly again. We live in a world were mistakes are made,
Not just a personal concern as you probably well know..

Had it just been Jet2 making a mistake, I would not even bothered posing the matter.
had it just be a lapse by overworked security staff..the same, you can put them down to one offs.

It was a combination of jet2 and MAN security that I can't understand.
I am sure all of us who have worked or do work at airports can point to similar incidents that never make the papers
Maybe had earlier incidents been reported, then maybe an 11 year old may not have been able to be on his way to Rome, unchallenged.

I am flying from MAN on monday with Jet2, and am probably better off with this matter coming to light..
but I tell you what it is a damn sight better than some places I have been.
No..Please compare us with the best, not saying we are better than less than good.

Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 26th Jul 2012 at 14:49.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 14:47
  #3802 (permalink)  
 
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If Gatwick can have automated access gates to security where boarding passes are scanned and a photo taken, I cannot see why Manchester can't have them. It's not like Gatwick doesn't cater for infrequent travellers and large families.
I agree, and airport as large as MAN should have the best...I also don't think that security staff should be working under pressure, if more manpower is needed - Then a small tariff on such a large pax, should not break us..
I pay an ADF at BLK without quibble, I would pay a small sum at MAN to help man security more effectively.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 14:49
  #3803 (permalink)  
 
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Photos are only taken at LGW and LHR for domestic passengers to prevent people in the common use departure lounge connecting within the UK and getting off without passing through customs.

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious. This kid is a little shit. Eleven year old me would have known this was 1) wrong, 2) risky, 3) been living in fear of the consequences.

This kid is unlikely to be that dumb, eleven is not an infant.
Given the lack of boarding card check before security, the "local" rule at MAN where the clearing security officer checks may have meant that a kind soul thinking he was helping a harrased family through by not checking each kid's paperwork rigorously. At most big UK airports I use, I doubt the kid would have gotten that far. Again the little brat claims he mingled with a family, sounds like he was quite aware.
I see no excuse at the gate though. It's not rocket science alas.

Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 26th Jul 2012 at 17:11.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 15:11
  #3804 (permalink)  
 
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He had left home..he probably had this planned for days.

Given the lack of boarding card check before security, the "local" rule at MAN where the clearing security officer checks may have meant that a kind soul thinking he was helping a harrased family through by not checking each kid's paperwork rigorously.
I have never come across a kind soul at MAN or BLK for that matter,,But if this is right, this kid spotted a chink in security others, not just a little shit might have also.

EuroWings says kids are not always under their parents control, I have not seen that, but I don't doubt EuroWings for one minute.

On the back of that, it must be a rule that parents keep control of their children, or they go to the back of the queue, to be processed at the end..

The only real answer is a dedicated boarding pass checker, they cost money, but is there an alternative?.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 15:39
  #3805 (permalink)  
 
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Ernest, having done the courses I do compare us with the best and the rest do come to us for advice.

I am sorry but you are making one massive mountain out of a molehill.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 16:58
  #3806 (permalink)  
 
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pwalhx
It can never be a mountain out of a molehill were security is concerned IMO.

There are security breaches, but they need to be minimised..If you knew of similar incidents like this that did not get reported..Then this is not an isolated incident.

All airports and airlines can learn from this..A very clever 11 years old could have been al qaeda.

The UK are militarily involved in sensitive places, and as such are and will remain a target for the foreseeable future..

Not that long ago Glasgow airport was targeted by terrorist..After which armed police with semi automatic machine guns sealed of the terminal.

There was no direct attack on Blackpool, Glasgow was rammed by a burning car, and the police thwarted two attempts in London.

Terrorist attacks when they come, are out of the blue...We had this recent incident and if we can improve security as a result, then that mountain was well made from that molehill.

pwalhx - I am not saying security in MAN or the UK is poor..maybe people do come and ask for advice..Lets make sure we have the best possible advice to give them.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 17:24
  #3807 (permalink)  
 
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Security was not breached he went through the security checks, what did not happen was the paperwork was not checked. He obviously had no bags so no securty issue there. he went through the scanner so obviously no issue there.

Were his actions malicious or mischievous, I think the latter.

I should add I never said previous events at different airports havent been reported, they have and dealt with outside the glare of publicity.

It would frighten you if you knew the number of securitywarnings Manchester and other airports get in a year, despite that people in their 10's of millions fly from british airports quite safely.

Last edited by pwalhx; 26th Jul 2012 at 17:50.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 17:37
  #3808 (permalink)  
 
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It can never be a mountain out of a molehill were security is concerned IMO.
Where exactly is 'security concerned' in this case? Please tell me what harm this 11 year old young chap could've caused?
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 17:47
  #3809 (permalink)  
 
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I use two NW airports (Man & LPL) and have noted that out of the 2 Manchester has had issues with security in the past 12 months on a number of occasions. They are I believ under watch having let 3 a/c from european destinations off load with out clearing immigration within last 12 months. There have been other issues as well. Liverpool does not seem to suffer to the same degree after they changed there security supplier. I do not want to get into the debate re Liverpool or Manchester as I am from Yorkshire and realy I am not that bothered with the tribal differances between these 2 cities. However having said that I have noticed a decline in the Manchester offering recently, and an up swing in that offered by Liverpool.

My main gripes with Machester are parking fees (luckly EK drop me off and pick me up on most trips). Baggage delv times - record for me 1hr 30min - world record holder in my travels and has been that way since it was known as Ringway, and has never improved. Some of the structures are becoming very tired T2 quite shabby, and T3 going same way. T2 ok currently but a bit shopping mall like. Also noticed toilets missing seats on a number of occassions - where do they go even in T2 lounges !!. As a premier gate way they need to raise the bar.

Liverpool security were misrable and jobs worths but have improved. Terminal ok but again tired - why do Brits never clean buildings externaly or very well internaly. Immigration has been ok for me, but it is quite small ,and must get very crowded when football charters are in with larger a/c. But over all for a LOCO center, for that is what it is, it is not bad.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 17:54
  #3810 (permalink)  
 
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They are I believ under watch having let 3 a/c from european destinations off load with out clearing immigration within last 12 months.
That has nothing to do with the airport itself or security, that's down to handling agent staff (dispatchers). Security have now taken over control of all domestic arrivals doors, and there hasn't been a single mistake since, so security have actually fixed the problem

My main gripes with Machester are parking fees
Use the train, bus, taxi, coach etc instead?

Baggage delv times - record for me 1hr 30min - world record holder in my travels and has been that way since it was known as Ringway, and has never improved
Nothing to do with the airport once again, it's the handling agents.

T2 ok currently but a bit shopping mall like
That's the way all airports are going, they need to make their money somehow.

Also noticed toilets missing seats on a number of occassions
Never once seen a toilet seat missing at MAN, they even won best airport toilets of the year (BBC News - Manchester Airport's toilets win top award)
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:05
  #3811 (permalink)  
 
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I hope this 11 year old boy faces some serious consequences for his actions. Everyone is quick to blame the staff but their job is very hard - I know what its like to be handed one big pile of passes and everyone is moving around plus you are aware that people are waiting and it needs to be completed as quick as possible.
After all this boy is over 10 years of age and is therfore responsible for his own actions - it is the boy at fault here, and I hope there are some consequences - what he did was wrong.
I would never have even dreamed of doing something like that when I was 11, I cant believe he had the nerve to decieve so many staff and passengers like this.
In this case the media have gone after the easy pickings - ie the airport, airline and staff. There would have been an up roar if they accused the child of doing anything wrong.

Plus I have never been through an airport that doesnt have dedicated staff members checking the boarding cards! It wouldnt take much, just one person with their mind focused on this alone could do it quick enough.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:08
  #3812 (permalink)  
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I'll bet he'll be portrayed as an 11yr old 'character' who is much misunderstood & wouldn't hurt a fly reeeaaallllllyyyyyy...
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:31
  #3813 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pwalhx
I should add I never said previous events at different airports havent been reported, they have and dealt with outside the glare of publicity.
OK..don't we have a right to know then?..Not un-reported. just covered up.
Originally Posted by pwalhx
It would frighten you if you knew the number of
security warnings Manchester and other airports get in a year, despite that people in their 10's of millions fly from british airports quite safel
pwalhx - How many of these security warnings are hoaxes?...Look when I flying I never think a plane will come down, i never think of terrorism..I bet the pax at 9/11 never thought so either.
I agree millions fly every year unharmed, of course you are right..And that probably remain the case.
Originally Posted by 750XL
Where exactly is 'security concerned' in this case? Please tell me what harm this 11 year old young chap could've caused?
I don't believe this..He could well have been 12/13 or 14..He might have had a plastic knife that would have caused panic, who knows?..I don't.

Hey: Had an adult done what this lad had done, they would have been in the chockey, quick time.

In this case the media have gone after the easy pickings - ie the airport, airline and staff. There would have been an up roar if they accused the child of doing anything wrong.
You can't blame the press, you can blame the 11 year old boy though, and so can the police.

Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 26th Jul 2012 at 18:35.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:37
  #3814 (permalink)  
 
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Covered up, I am sorry do you really think it is in the public interest to advertise this sort of thing, I dont.

Quite frankly I find your comments more frightening and dangerous than anything this young man did.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:48
  #3815 (permalink)  
 
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Covered up, I am sorry do you really think it is in the public interest to advertise this sort of thing, I dont.
You have a right to know, we don't..That's OK then.
Quite frankly I find your comments more frightening and dangerous than anything this young man did.
What I said was on a forum in response to an 11 year old that managed to dupe all and get on an aircraft unauthorised. That is frightening.
That's it from me ..Sick of going round in circles..Last word..If you are 750XL want to make light of this incident..and say how innocuous this lad was, and how he was no security risk..Then I reckon i am way out of touch - with reality.

Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 26th Jul 2012 at 18:51.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:50
  #3816 (permalink)  
 
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I don't believe this..He could well have been 12/13 or 14..He might have had a plastic knife that would have caused panic, who knows?..I don't.

Hey: Had an adult done what this lad had done, they would have been in the chockey, quick time.
Right... That still doesn't explain why him boarding the flight was a security risk?

Any one of the passengers on board, or crew for that matter, could of had a 'plastic knife' with them. Him boarding the flight wasn't a security risk
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 18:56
  #3817 (permalink)  
 
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Ernest we agree on something time for the last word and agree we should agree to disagree.

I have never made light of the issue, there are concerns that need to be dealt with and will be.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 19:32
  #3818 (permalink)  
 
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My main gripes with Machester are parking fees
I've been using Manchester for over 20 years now and this has never been an issue. If you're willing to book at least a few days in advance, Manchester has some of the cheapest on-site and off-site parking in the country, especially the latter. It's peanuts compared to the London airports or even Liverpool. Last month, I paid 25 for 8 days parking at Jetparks, which is airport owned and takes less then 10 minutes from car park to terminal. That would have been easily double and probably more at Heathrow.

If you turn up on the day and go in the multi-storey, it'll be a very different story of course.

Last edited by EuroWings; 26th Jul 2012 at 19:36.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 19:50
  #3819 (permalink)  
 
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Liverpool has some of the cheapest car parking in the country and is definetly cheaper than Manchester if booked in advance plus it is 2 mins to the terminal from long stay and a max of 5-7 mins from the furthest point of the pricebuster. Liverpool is recognised for cheap car parking.
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 19:54
  #3820 (permalink)  
 
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Liverpool has some of the cheapest car parking in the country
I have to join this..Parking at BLK, costs Nothing for up to I think 15 days.

Yes there is a small ADF, but hey that's seperate.
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