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MANCHESTER - 8

Old 25th Jul 2012, 06:21
  #3761 (permalink)  
 
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Not brilliant that this happened at all, but so many people are coming out of the wood work and using terms like "passport control" and "security breach" etc.

The BBC talking head said something like "think of how many times you show a passport at an airport these days". The answer is either once or twice. Once at the check in desk and once at the gate. Or, if you check in online, just once, at the gate. That's not excessive, it's perfectly sensible (which makes me wonder why people never have it ready at the gate). There are no immigration checks on exit from the UK any more, the people at the gate are checking you can enter the next country. Security just want to see a boarding pass, they don't care who you are, they just need to know you're on a flight that day and don't have anything malicious in your hand baggage. Many people have their passport out thinking it will be checked, but it never is, yet they still think that is "passport control" and for some reason refer to it as such.

There were 3 failures at MAN, of course, the first was him getting through security without a boarding pass, however, the boy still went airside after going through the required level of checks, so he was not a threat in the way that the news will make him out to have been. The second failure was at the gate where he slipped through and the third was on board, where a simple head count would have sorted this out in about 10 minutes.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 06:59
  #3762 (permalink)  
 
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Not all airlines do head counts though.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 14:56
  #3763 (permalink)  
 
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Security just want to see a boarding pass, they don't care who you are, they just need to know you're on a flight that day and don't have anything malicious in your hand baggage. Many people have their passport out thinking it will be checked, but it never is, yet they still think that is "passport control" and for some reason refer to it as such.
Indeed, security checkpoints at airports in the UK and much of Europe are only interested in seeing boarding passes. The same is not true in America, however, where ID/passport checks are mandatory at security.

Traditionally, boarding passes were checked by dedicated staff at desks and they still are at numerous airports (including Liverpool down the road). However, Manchester seems to have introduced a new procedure in the last year or so, where the actual security screeners check boarding passes as you are putting your belongings in a tray to be scanned. Gatwick has "railway style" automated barriers to check boarding passes and I seem to remember that these disappeared from Manchester.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 15:47
  #3764 (permalink)  
 
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Gatwick has "railway style" automated barriers to check boarding passes and I seem to remember that these disappeared from Manchester.
Don't remember Manchester ever having automated barriers.

Sky News this morning showed an animation of the route taken through the airport by the 11 year old boy. It clearly showed the first check point as 'Passport Control'.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 15:53
  #3765 (permalink)  
 
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The Manchester procedure is annoying as people who fly often expect things done logically. MAN feels very geared for the once a year flyer like LGW used to be. The logic jars at MAN IMHO.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 16:09
  #3766 (permalink)  
 
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Gatwick has "railway style" automated barriers to check boarding passes and I seem to remember that these disappeared from Manchester.
I remember these in T1 (not sure if they were put in the other terminals) but they got removed because apparently it was damaging the borading cards. Thats what one of the security staff told me anyway.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 16:19
  #3767 (permalink)  
 
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Jet2 have just confirmed that head counts will now to become mandatory after boarding off all flights, this is following the incident at Manchester yesterday.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 17:31
  #3768 (permalink)  
 
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I thought they already were for all airlines? Otherwise what's to stop someone checking in a malicious bag and then not turning up?

Can't remember a flight I've been on when a headcount wasn't carried out.

If J2 weren't ( as your post seems to suggest) then they need a serious kick up the backside.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 17:40
  #3769 (permalink)  
 
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The little bastard that run away from his mother needs the boot up the arse.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 17:40
  #3770 (permalink)  
 
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The gate staff will be the ones doing a passenger count, if all the boarding cards have been scanned or counted at the gate, many see this is enough, i only ever done a head count if there was a discrepancy at the gate.
Not alot of airlines do head counts although i presume this will now be re-introduced.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 18:08
  #3771 (permalink)  
 
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flybe Brussels

Anybody know what is happening with the flybe Brussels?

Last flight bookable on the flybe site 9/9/12 same as the BHX-HAM.

Is this aircraft required for the new EDI or GLA to EMA which start the day after?

One GDS system shows it still bookable for winter but the flybe website does not. The combined FR/SN/BE passenger figures in June were amazing but I assume FR CRL are affecting yields on the BRU flights?

Pete
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 18:24
  #3772 (permalink)  
 
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Not alot of airlines do head counts although i presume this will now be re-introduced.
I am sure JET2 do headcounts...I know EZY or FR did at Easter when I flew from Liverpool.
Yes..I am 99.99% that jet2 also do headcounts.

I am flying from MAN on Monday with LS, can't say this incident gives me confidence in either.In particular Jet2...Could have been anyone.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 18:45
  #3773 (permalink)  

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I cannot envisage a terrorist attaching him/ herself to a family travelling on holiday! So although the checks were inadequate, one has to think of the profile of an unarmed terrorist. And it is not that of a young child.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 19:20
  #3774 (permalink)  
 
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It hadn't been mandatory to do head counts on aircraft parked on an airbridge stands as ground staff have accounted for all passengers going through the gate. Only flights that have been parked on remote stands were passengers have had to walk on or been bussed to the aircraft have been head counted up until now.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 19:43
  #3775 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot envisage a terrorist attaching him/ herself to a family travelling on holiday! So although the checks were inadequate, one has to think of the profile of an unarmed terrorist. And it is not that of a young child.

You wouldn't like to put your money on that would you.
It was carried out a number of years ago in Afghanistan although it was a coach.
The young bomber killed fifteen Ruskies he was nine years old and traveling with a supposed family .
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 20:41
  #3776 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot envisage a terrorist attaching him/ herself to a family travelling on holiday! So although the checks were inadequate, one has to think of the profile of an unarmed terrorist. And it is not that of a young child.


Think again about what you say .. i was in afghan last year and there was two bombings carried out .. one was a 11 year old boy and the other was a 9 year old girl ... made my heart skip a beat when i heard the news of the 11 year old at manchester
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 20:47
  #3777 (permalink)  
 
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Chaps - your point is not valid - the child did pass through the security check - so if he had a bag it was scanned and he passed through the arch.....
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 21:53
  #3778 (permalink)  
 
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It hadn't been mandatory to do head counts on aircraft parked on an airbridge stands as ground staff have accounted for all passengers going through the gate.
FR did a head count when we came back from Easter...They noted a passenger was missing, but other pax explained he/she was not coming on board.

Again - I am sure Jet2 do head counts, no matter the mode of boarding..

Originally Posted by 2Planks
Chaps - your point is not valid - the child did pass through the security check - so if he had a bag it was scanned and he passed through the arch.....
Just because he went through a check, that does not mean the kid could NOT be a threat.

we don't need to talk explosives, we only need to talk small that could cause panic on an a/c.

Anyway -- Can we trust any mode of security that lets a child unchallenged board and aircraft with no passport or boarding card..

That is not foolproof security..Also jet2 don't allow children to fly alone..The mind boggles and I am flying from MAN with Jet2 on Monday.

The security at the airport must have been flawed. and how did he get on the aircraft with no boarding card?. safer to walk, methinks.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 22:14
  #3779 (permalink)  
 
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FR did a head count when we came back from Easter...They noted a passenger was missing, but other pax explained he/she was not coming on board.

Again - I am sure Jet2 do head counts, no matter the mode of boarding..
You can be sure all you like, but until today Jet2's policy was to only do head counts when boarding via steps. When boarding via an Airbridge, it was accepted that the checks through the gate were suitable enough. Thomson operate a similar policy.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 22:41
  #3780 (permalink)  
 
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You can be sure all you like, but until today Jet2's policy was to only do head counts when boarding via steps. When boarding via an Airbridge, it was accepted that the checks through the gate were suitable enough. Thomson operate a similar policy.
Well I have been headcounted by Jet2 and FR for that matter, with FR this year.
I will not argue the point about the Airbridge as I am not 100% sure.

Makes no difference anyway..This kid should have been head counted at the gate, so what's the difference?.

If there was a discrepancy at the gate, which there should have been..There would have been a secondary headcount on the aircraft.

Also how did this child get though security?.. You drop your bag of, you go to security where adults and children show their documents..Then off to the departure lounge..have a pint and go to gate when ready.


You show your passport at gate, your boarding pass is ripped in half..You go to aircraft..You show your boarding pass with open passport..

The child had no documents whatsoever, yet is able to deceive MAN security and Jet2 gate and aircraft staff.

This kinda proves my point.
Five airline staff suspended after youngster was able to board Jet2.com flight without boarding pass or passport
Rome alone: 11-year-old boy flies from Manchester to Italy without ticket | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Have airport security staff been suspended also I wonder?.

Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 25th Jul 2012 at 22:42.
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