MANCHESTER - 8

[The96er]

btw why has Stand 03 turned (back?) into Stand 01? I am already confused enough without Northern-type stand planners adding to it....

Stand one has been re-aligned to allow a slightly larger a/c to use it such as an A319/737-300. Possibly to do with creating more stand space for Easyjet moving terminals maybe !.

[wanna_be_there]

Whilst I know BA will never ever open a hub at MAN again, I think the main concensus is that a lot people just dont want to go down to Heathrow to catch their flight anymore.

At the end of the day, to those of us who have even the slightest bit of aviation knowledge, yes, BA is doing the same as everybody else by sending all MAN pax via their hub like everyone else. But, to the general British public, they will always question why BA do not offer long haul flights out of MAN, or GLA/EDI/NCL for that matter.
They will see that VS, the other UK long haul carrier does operate such flights out of MAN. Again, we know they operate on a different business rationale than LHR, but, the General public doesnt.

After reading another post on another forum this morning, I do think BA could make MAN a small holiday hub with Kuoni/BA holidays, similar to VS at MAN, but thats a different business model and arguement completely

[easyflyer83]

After reading another post on another forum this morning, I do think BA could make MAN a small holiday hub with Kuoni/BA holidays, similar to VS at MAN, but thats a different business model and arguement completely

Absolutely, you almost answered your own question. Business model. Nobody asks of TCX to operate scheduled NYC......because we recognise and accept that thats not part of it's strategy.

I do understand what you say however regarding peoples perceptions but does a business lose money in order to put those wrong perceptions right? Hopefully most people travelling to, for example, HKG will realise that whether they fly EK or BA, there is still a stopover/connection to be made. Many, admittedly, would prefer to get a huge chunk of the journey straight away ex MAN and therefore like EK whilst others prefer to get the long haul flight done in one long stretch.

LHR, as we know, isn't the most efficient of airports but connecting there isn't all that bad (especially T5) and whilst it's not as seamless as my experience of DXB, i wouldn't hesitate using LHR in the future.

Even if BA had long haul flights ex MAN, for most destinations there would still be a requirement to connect via LHR as even the most hardened protestor here would admit that BA long haul destinations would be quite select.

[wanna_be_there]

Nobody asks of TCX to operate scheduled NYC......because we recognise and accept that thats not part of it's strategy

Exactly. People just see the words British Airways, get all misty eyed and protest at them not serving long haul from MAN. You dont get people asking why TCX doesnt serve LHR, because they know it wouldnt last.

for most destinations there would still be a requirement to connect via LHR

Exactly! Even if BA did open a MAN hub, they still wouldnt be serving the 'right' routes and people would still complain.

In terms of the BA holiday hub, the other forum had an idea of:

-Cutting the LGW shuttles (as it will save money for BA, especially with the new higher charges at LGW, making domestics more expensive to run)
-Bringing 1/2x 3 class B772 to MAN to operate MCO and a few carribean routes.
-The stored B744's could replace the B772 routes

BA holidays and Kuoni, as well as a few online sales could support the route. VS has been very successful in this, and if the BA following in the Northwest is as wanted so badly as on here, we should be able to support the route.

[Skipness One Echo]

-Cutting the LGW shuttles (as it will save money for BA, especially with the new higher charges at LGW, making domestics more expensive to run)
-Bringing 1/2x 3 class B772 to MAN to operate MCO and a few carribean routes.
-The stored B744's could replace the B772 routes

It wouldn't impact too much on the MAN-LGW as that's not their purpose. Only the first Southbound has any use as a feeder, the rest is to link to business centres. De-coupling MAN feed with a dedicated aircraft would impact on the LGW operation but VS seem to manage this quite well but this based on a fleet charging a LOT on a daily B744 to see Mickey Mouse.

Or why not build a stand alone specialist and focussed leisure company closely working with BA Holidays and call it, oh I don't know......something to make use of BA heavies on leisure routes..... *ponders* EUREKA! I have it, it shall be known as "British Airtours" What a crazy, mad idea I just had!

[wanna_be_there]

VS seem to manage this quite well but this based on a fleet charging a LOT on a daily B744 to see Mickey Mouse

I dont see your point? If VS can charge a LOT to see mickey mouse, surely BA holidays/Kuoni could do the same?

Or why not build a stand alone company and call it, oh I don't know......something to make use of BA heavies on leisure routes. EUREKA! I have it, it shall be known as "British Airtours" What a crazy, mad idea I just had

Is it a bad day at the office or something, as again I dont see your point? Isnt this exactly what the 'BA heavies on leisure routes' are doing at LGW? Or is that a 'mad' idea too?

[Skipness One Echo]

I dont see your point? If VS can charge a LOT to see mickey mouse, surely BA holidays/Kuoni could do the same?

BA used to fly MAN-MCO, apparently not. They have the reverese Midas-touch as soon as they get beyond Hounslow.

As for "my" crazy British Airtours idea, well I'll leave that to someone older than I.

[mickyman]

Who are the people wanting BA back at Manchester -
perhaps Ryanair are leading the way......

MM

[wanna_be_there]

As for "my" crazy British Airtours idea, well I'll leave that to someone older than I

Why be so patronising?

Once again a simple question that could have an interesting debate blasted down purely because Sir Skipness says so.

[Skipness One Echo]

Why be so patronising?

I'm not, I'm pointing out BA couldn't make money in the regions if the fate of creation itself depended upon it. They used to have a set up pretty much as you were describing, called British Airtours. We're in that part of the cycle where BA have rediscovered that leisure can make money and it's not all about Club and First, if done properly. Soon someone might have the "new" idea to launch a new leisure division soon to grow market share in markets outta London. I think my point is there are few new ideas alas.

[wanna_be_there]

Fair enough, I see where you are comming from now.

The point Im trying to make is, Whilst its not in the regions, such a set up still exsists at LGW, as all of LGW's long haul routes are leisure orientated and rely quite a lot on BA holidays.

At a time when they are about to create 'mixed fleet', maybe the time is now?

They have a crew base at MAN, the B772 could be rotated at MCO (like VS does), and with BA holiday/Kuoni, the venture wouldnt be soley relient on feed or point to point airfare only sales.

BA could, even utilise their BE codeshares to feed MAN from those points served by BE with the BA codeshare. There is also still the terraces lounge to be put to good use. Basically, the infrastructure is there, it just needs the commitment now.

And with that, I dont think its a mad idea. Im also not stating 20-30 aircraft should be based at MAN, just 1 or 2. BA could easily replicate at MAN what VS do, and if its just the morning MAN-LGW shuttle that feeds the LGW long hauls, it sounds like it wouldnt impact on LGW ops too much.

Then again, the above will always just be a dream

[Skipness One Echo]

I think it's a rather good idea, my feeling having dealt with BA is that they got their fingers so badly burned with anything with the word "regions" anywhere near it that it will be years before they try again.

They even used to fly MAN-YYZ on the TriStar, I used to cry at the noisy RB211s when they stopped off at PIK.

[The96er]

They have a crew base at MAN

BA have not had a crews base in MAN now for many years.

There is also still the terraces lounge to be put to good use.

With only the shuttles and the AA flights, the lounge is a shadow of it's former size.

[roverman]

Skipness,

The 13 might include Cathay Pacific and China Airlines, freight only but still a 'long-haul scheduled' if you're spinning.

[easyflyer83]

BA have not had a crews base in MAN now for many years

To be fair BA had crew based in MAN until relatively recently.

BA Mainline 2006
BA Connect/BAR 2007
GB Airways 2008

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Skipness,

Don't forget Air Blue [ED] to Islamabad. Also, Thomas Cook's services to Canada last summer were also officially "scheduled", although I'm not sure if they will be back on Canada routes this season with Air Transat resuming most of the programme in their place. Regards, SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Thomas Cook's services to Canada last summer were also officially "scheduled", although I'm not sure if they will be back on Canada routes this season

They are back this year. They are running A330's to Calgary and Vancouver, with Air Transat running A330's to Toronto.

[Mr A Tis]

With three TCX A330s returning to the lessors at the end of Summer 2011. This is the last year for TCX on Vancouver / Calagary for Canadian Affair.
Toronto this summer are a mix of Transat A330s & A310s.(instead of the previous TCX B757s)

[TURIN]

wanna be there

Have you any idea how many BA staff are currently 'based' at MAN?

[easyflyer83]

Of course it could be but I think we can safely say it is unlikely. Neither OPO or VCE are bases and, comparatively speaking, W patterns aren't operated on a wholesale basis across the network. Plus, it is now getting close to the Summer season.

I could well be eating my own words above as three new Easyjet routes from the Northwest are to be announced shortly. I guess these could be Winter routes but if not it will be interesting for any potential MAN routes considering the 6 based aircraft are fully utilised this Summer.