Ryanair - 7
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With so few aircraft manufacturers out there it may be difficult to go elsewhere, however I find it peculiar that other Boeing customers seem to simply sit back and say nothing about Boeing giving their competition an advantage by selling 737's to MOL at way below what they can buy them at themselves.
Somehow I don't see the major domestic US carriers accepting MOL is going to consistently buy at significantly less than they can.
Something doesn't add up. At best MOL got a one off deal due exceptional circumstances. Boeing simply cannot sell him aircraft at way below prices charged to other customers and have them effectively subsidise Ryanair.
Somehow I don't see the major domestic US carriers accepting MOL is going to consistently buy at significantly less than they can.
Something doesn't add up. At best MOL got a one off deal due exceptional circumstances. Boeing simply cannot sell him aircraft at way below prices charged to other customers and have them effectively subsidise Ryanair.
if Boeing agree to sell aircraft to anybody for whatever price they are HAPPY TO DO SO if they weren't then the deal wouldn't go through
being good negotiators is one of the reasons FR are so successful
being good negotiators is one of the reasons FR are so successful
Long time since I heard that one. Do you hail from anywhere near egbw per chance?
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Am I the only one woh thinks that the flight live information on RYR's website is inacurrate?
this is the post from skavsta intl(?) airport
FR4136 from Frankfurt Hahn scheduled at 1540 arr is expected at 1635
this is the info from RYR's live flight info
DUE 1540 flight 4136 Hahn-Skavsta ON TIME
???
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
this is the post from skavsta intl(?) airport
FR4136 from Frankfurt Hahn scheduled at 1540 arr is expected at 1635
this is the info from RYR's live flight info
DUE 1540 flight 4136 Hahn-Skavsta ON TIME
???
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
15:40FR4136Frankfurt HahnExpected 16:35Ryanair
Join Date: Jan 2008
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EZY Deal
A few comments to previous posts:
There was a major shock in the industry when EZY switched from Boeing to Airbus - the learned opinion at the time was that the B737 is the LLC aircraft of choice so Airbus made them a deal they could not refuse. EZY continue to buck traditional LCC thinking by continuing to operate a mixed fleet as the B737s have still not left the fleet.
RYN, and any other Airline for that matter, can squeeze major discounts out of (any) supliers due to the numbers involved - in commercial parlance its called a volume discount - any airline with a potential order of 200 magnitude would be criticized for not obtaining such a discount.
C-Checks occur around 3000 - 4000 Flight Hours or around every 18 months depending on each airline's approved maintenance programme which is based on their operational profile. So RYN are not selling their a/c before a C-Check - more likely before a 6C which I believe is the first biggy in the programme.
bizdev
There was a major shock in the industry when EZY switched from Boeing to Airbus - the learned opinion at the time was that the B737 is the LLC aircraft of choice so Airbus made them a deal they could not refuse. EZY continue to buck traditional LCC thinking by continuing to operate a mixed fleet as the B737s have still not left the fleet.
RYN, and any other Airline for that matter, can squeeze major discounts out of (any) supliers due to the numbers involved - in commercial parlance its called a volume discount - any airline with a potential order of 200 magnitude would be criticized for not obtaining such a discount.
C-Checks occur around 3000 - 4000 Flight Hours or around every 18 months depending on each airline's approved maintenance programme which is based on their operational profile. So RYN are not selling their a/c before a C-Check - more likely before a 6C which I believe is the first biggy in the programme.
bizdev
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I really do not think that MOL is any different than any other customer when it comes down to negotiating prices.
Boeing is only interested in beating Airbus. Short term and long term.
Boeing is only interested in beating Airbus. Short term and long term.
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Both Boeing and RYR need this order. They will be back doing a deal within 6 months. Remember the aircraft are still on option. There is still plenty of time to firm up an order. Just negotiating, tough but it will still be effective.
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You can read between the lines if you wish. Cash flow way down. Can't dump the older slugs to unsuspecting buyers. Aircraft being cleaned every other evening with cabin crew cleaning the aircraft on the other evenings without additional pay.
At the end of the day if you can't fill 210 airplanes now with passengers how are you going to fill 320 airplanes with passengers?
Oh well...
At the end of the day if you can't fill 210 airplanes now with passengers how are you going to fill 320 airplanes with passengers?
Oh well...
In the absence Airbus jumping into the ring, I wonder if there are any Russian banks running the rule over their options on making a call to FR and putting together a financing deal for some TU204-500's (TU could do with the order and the Russian banks could do with the $'s or €'s).
Or is that just too low cost even for Mr. O'Leary's tastes.
JAS
Or is that just too low cost even for Mr. O'Leary's tastes.
JAS
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Maybe I read this thread too quickly but I didn't see any mention of the fact that while Ryanair are not proceeding with the 'negotiations' for an additional 200 aircraft, they will be taking delivery of 112 737NG's between now and 2015. (Source BB1 one today). For those people who love to think Ryanair is on its last legs, think again.
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If you can stomach it, there's lots of O'Leary in Saturday's Financial Times. An interview with the great man and a piece about the failed Boeing deal. Funniest line: 'Ryanair ... delivers a terrific customer service'. FT.com / Columnists / Lunch with the FT - Lunch with the FT: Michael O?Leary
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"What - no comment ."
You see I don't think Leo is Leo but is someone employed by Leo to act as Leo. I came to this conclusion last year when I found he couldn't spell St. Stephen's day. I mean what Irish man couldn't spell St. Stephen's day? Surely only an outsider would spell it 'Steven's day' so that's why I don't think Leo is Leo.
I liked the FT interview especially the allergy to Blackberries, e mails and PCs.
You see I don't think Leo is Leo but is someone employed by Leo to act as Leo. I came to this conclusion last year when I found he couldn't spell St. Stephen's day. I mean what Irish man couldn't spell St. Stephen's day? Surely only an outsider would spell it 'Steven's day' so that's why I don't think Leo is Leo.
I liked the FT interview especially the allergy to Blackberries, e mails and PCs.
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The independent.ie writes today:
The evidence of overcapacity is growing. And other problems emerging as well.
The less Ryanair are willing to pay the airports they use, the more likely emerge problems with their maintenance and development. Like in Germany, where the carrier could soon lose a couple of its destinations (Lubeck, Altenburg), no-one wants to pay to keep the places open for them.
The more marketing support FR demand for its routes, the more prone they are to reactions like that in France:
As an example, the article mentions the Poitiers and Angouleme airports. The latter one has signed a 5-year contract with FR to operate between 2008 and 2012 and the agreement stipulated that the airline would receive €400.000 in 2008, 300.000 in 2009 and 225 000 in 2010. Now Ryanair wants 175.000 more, the economic crisis as a pretext. So far the Charente Departament's Chamber of Commerce didn't agree. Last days of Ryanair in Angouleme, presumably?
Not only in France, similar problems emerge for example in Poland. Bydgoszcz has been promised a few new routes to be announced very soon. However, the marketing support has not been granted by the City Council. Regardless of other routes' profitability, FR threatens to withdraw completely from the entire BZG, unless ongoing negotiations bring a solution to this dispute.
While Ryanair naturally blamed Boeing, accusing it of failing to meet unspecified delivery conditions, for the rupture, no one seems to be asking the obvious question. How on earth was Ryanair going to fill another 200 aircraft?
Ryanair has grown passenger numbers by 20 per cent a year for almost a decade. In the year to March 2010, Ryanair will carry 70 million passengers. In terms of passenger numbers carried, Michael O'Leary's outfit is now the largest airline in Europe.
Now that it is operating off such a high base it becomes more and more difficult for Ryanair to maintain these growth rates. Even before the recession decimated the demand for cheap, discretionary travel it was clear that Ryanair's growth rates would have to slow. Otherwise it would be carrying something like 175 million passengers by 2015 and 435 million by 2020.
Quite clearly that's not going to happen. Otherwise everyone in Europe would end up spending every waking hour either airborne or at the airport -- a truly terrifying thought.
Ryanair has grown passenger numbers by 20 per cent a year for almost a decade. In the year to March 2010, Ryanair will carry 70 million passengers. In terms of passenger numbers carried, Michael O'Leary's outfit is now the largest airline in Europe.
Now that it is operating off such a high base it becomes more and more difficult for Ryanair to maintain these growth rates. Even before the recession decimated the demand for cheap, discretionary travel it was clear that Ryanair's growth rates would have to slow. Otherwise it would be carrying something like 175 million passengers by 2015 and 435 million by 2020.
Quite clearly that's not going to happen. Otherwise everyone in Europe would end up spending every waking hour either airborne or at the airport -- a truly terrifying thought.
The less Ryanair are willing to pay the airports they use, the more likely emerge problems with their maintenance and development. Like in Germany, where the carrier could soon lose a couple of its destinations (Lubeck, Altenburg), no-one wants to pay to keep the places open for them.
The more marketing support FR demand for its routes, the more prone they are to reactions like that in France:
Ryanair fait du chantage avec les aéroports français.
Le chantage aux subventions et aux baisses des taxes aéroportuaires est devenu une pratique courante de la compagnie aérienne à bas prix Ryanair. La compagnie aérienne irlandaise s'installe dans des aéroports secondaires moyennant certains avantages financiers puis menace ensuite de se retirer si ceux-ci n'acceptent pas les nouvelles conditions imposées par Ryanair.
Ryanair is blackmailing French airports.
Blackmailing to get subsidies and tax cuts at airports has become a common practice for Ryanair. After being granted certain financial benefits the Irish airline installs itself into secondary airports and then threatens to withdraw if some new conditions imposed by Ryanair are not accepted.
Le chantage aux subventions et aux baisses des taxes aéroportuaires est devenu une pratique courante de la compagnie aérienne à bas prix Ryanair. La compagnie aérienne irlandaise s'installe dans des aéroports secondaires moyennant certains avantages financiers puis menace ensuite de se retirer si ceux-ci n'acceptent pas les nouvelles conditions imposées par Ryanair.
Ryanair is blackmailing French airports.
Blackmailing to get subsidies and tax cuts at airports has become a common practice for Ryanair. After being granted certain financial benefits the Irish airline installs itself into secondary airports and then threatens to withdraw if some new conditions imposed by Ryanair are not accepted.
Not only in France, similar problems emerge for example in Poland. Bydgoszcz has been promised a few new routes to be announced very soon. However, the marketing support has not been granted by the City Council. Regardless of other routes' profitability, FR threatens to withdraw completely from the entire BZG, unless ongoing negotiations bring a solution to this dispute.
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Just noticed that the Bournemouth to Edinburgh route is no longer bookable after the 27 March
Is this the final end to there attempt of offering a domestic link from Bournemouth and to concentrate on the Med routes with there 2 based aircraft
Would be a shame as Prestwick was good loads for years until the 2nd service was introduced then cancelled and Edinburgh offered up but with the worst time s of departure !
Is this the final end to there attempt of offering a domestic link from Bournemouth and to concentrate on the Med routes with there 2 based aircraft
Would be a shame as Prestwick was good loads for years until the 2nd service was introduced then cancelled and Edinburgh offered up but with the worst time s of departure !