DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[NorthSouth]

I've said it before I'll say it again, if there wasn't demand for three airports so close together how come it's managed to last nearly 50 years?????

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Public subsidy. In the last 50 years we've steadily moved away from seeing airports as a necessary part of the national/regional/local infrastructure, at least partly owned and funded from the public purse. Now, like everything else, we've thrown airports into the private sector where there are no guarantees that any infrastructure will be left at the end of the process. DTVA's only clinging on because of a substantial bung from the taxpayer in the form of Cobham's contract from the MoD.
NS

[DTVAirport]

NorthSouth, I still feel my previous post still applies.

[Northbound A1]

Cobham and BMI money

I did hear a rumour last year about Cobham going to Leeming but thought it may be just talk.

With all the smoke and mirror share deals going on I did wonder if Peel have only bought the DTV shares back because it might have affected the BMI appeal court case if the airport had actually closed?

From the other BMI posts on this thread, I gather that the millions which will be paid in compensation will only go to the Peel Empire and no other share holders.
Could that be why VAS suddenly decided DTV didnt meet their needs? And of course lets not forget the Peel free land grab on the south side

Anyone know when the BMI court case is set to meet re an appeal? I feel that may be the time Peel decide they will try and pull the plug again.

[VentureGo]

Interesting from NorthSouth on Derry thread

Copied from Derrry Airport thread submitted by NorthSouth and answers previous posts re. attracting Low Cost Operators like Ryanair to DTV - :
[ Quote:]
City of Derry Airport costs ratepayers £3.6m
[The reality of the "Ryanair miracle". Here we have one of the fastest growing airports in the UK, where costs have been slashed, but it can't operate without massive public subsidy. Why? Because Ryanair pays f*** all. It's Michael O'Leary's not-very-secret key to success - offload the costs on to someone else. And if that someone else is the ratepayer or the taxpayer, even better, because then you can rant about free enterprise while hauling the sacks of public money all the way to your Monaco bank account.]

NorthSouth makes valid point, and hopefully New routes can be attracted to DTV on a commercially sound basis.

[NorthSouth]

hopefully New routes can be attracted to DTV on a commercially sound basis

Can't follow your logic I'm afraid. I would draw the opposite conclusion - unless you can see the local authorities suddenly finding squillions in their slashed budgets, which they will then rush to stuff in Peel's trousers.
NS

[VentureGo]

You've misread my post - I actually agree with you! Taxpayers should not be providing subsidy to Ryanair, for services that otherwise can not prove a commercial success under normal trading terms. DTV will only secure a long term future with popular routes making a profit for both airlines and airport. Local Authority support is OK to kickstart services and promote business etc..., but eventually the business must be sound for the long term. With Newcastle 50 mins up the road and Leeds not much further in opposite direction, does the need exist for an airport half way between these major Airports. Airlines have pulled out of DTV over the last few years, which can only be due to the commercials not being right for success.

[ConstantFlyer]

If there are no passengers to be had, what about freight? Could DTV become a cargo hub?

[davidjohnson6]

Provisional stats out from the CAA for January

Passengers in Jan 2012 = 12,654, down 23.3% compared to Jan 2011
Passengers from 1 Feb 2011 to 31 Jan 2012 = 186,435, down 18.9% year-on-year

The Amsterdam route had 7,040 passengers in Jan 2012, down 12% compared to Jan 2011

[TSR2]

Provisional stats out from the CAA for January

Dire I'm afraid.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

KLM dropping quickly

Could be the reason why peel (who said they no longer wanted the airport - because it was loosing so much money) have sold the airport to peel (who look forward to investing). So that passengers would keep booking flights on KLM before they dropped to rediculously low levels. Just letting the average passenger know that everything was hunky dory. Just a thought.

[skyman771]

Airport pax statistics
It would appear difficult to maintain commercial services at DTV if pax figures at these levels are looked at in depth.
What you have is Jannuary daily average of some 114 pax each way on the KL AMS service who make up over 55% of the total pax traffic through the airport.
Now consider the necessary overheads to maintain services, then consider as to whether what if any concessions could be viable / sustainable.
On these figures it is difficult how they can even afford cleaners.
As for essential investment in the infrastructure / maintenance, then zero contribution from pax services, where is money to come from ?
Further evidence that the local population do not even make full use of those services that are available, haven't tansit through DTV for some time, but surely it now must not be a too pleasant experience........

[NorthSouth]

Then again the CAA Jan stats appear to be deeply flawed. No flights at all from Gatwick to USA/Canada? No KLM Norwich or Humberside to Amsterdam? No flights from East Mids to anywhere in Spain? All flights from Humberside, Norwich and Shetland to the oil rigs cancelled?
Some papers left in a drawer at the Belgrano perhaps?
NS

[pug]

HUY figures are often out a bit later than the rest, could be the same for NWI.

[davidjohnson6]

East Midlands, Gatwick, Humberside, Norwich and Scatsta are all excluded from the CAA provisional stats for Jan 2012 at the moment on the grounds that the data is not yet available. Give it a week or two, and Jan 2012 numbers for these airports should become available on the CAA website

[apaul]

Yet more unrealistic political lobbying by the airport. Owner of airport seeks help from MPs (From The Northern Echo)

[SWBKCB]

Yes, but in 6, 12, 18, 36 months time they will point to all the things they've done and hold their hands up and say we tried our best but nobody supported us...

[mmegh]

SWBKCB spot on! Just going to be another excuse to use! "we asked the government for help (money) but they were not interested, so there was nothing we could do! We had to close!"

[Northbound A1]

I agree, its all a PR excercise now with Peel, and the "put up or shut up" will be the next step with the councils. The london link will never happen.

If Peel do close it, whats the betting the local councils then change their tune and agree to let Peel build anything they want on the empty land

[skyman771]

NorthSouthThen again the CAA Jan stats appear to be deeply flawed. No flights at all from Gatwick to USA/Canada? No KLM Norwich or Humberside to Amsterdam? No flights from East Mids to anywhere in Spain? All flights from Humberside, Norwich and Shetland to the oil rigs cancelled?
Some papers left in a drawer at the Belgrano perhaps?

Lost as to your point as it has has zero relevance to DTV, whilst appreciating that you are of course not suggesting that DTV's "flights from Gatwick to USA/Canada" are missing!!!, however smokescreens are NOT what are needed in this mess !
Everyone is looking for excuses, which even if presented are now HISTORY, and all that matters is the present & going forwards. Without cash support & I don't see as to why Peel, which in any of its many entities are company's whose main purpose of existence is to try to make a profit for their shareholders, should be treated as a preferential case then the future looks bleak!

[NorthSouth]

skyman:

Lost as to your point as it has has zero relevance to DTV

Point was: the stats are provisional. Maybe conclusions should wait until they're confirmed. But I agree with your thrust that the detail of the stats doesn't matter. For DTVA they won't be anything but dismal.
NS