DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
Which begs the question as to what they are going to do that they haven't been doing already?
The customer base has eroded (i.e. KLM have said that they view MME as needing to consolidate and NCL as a place for expansion) and NCL and LBA have moved ahead in terms of developing their facilities - see this story in the Journal
£3.2m Newcastle International Airport extension is on schedule - Today's News - News - JournalLive
The losses at MME have previously been described as unsustainable and if they are to look to 'push hard' to improve the passenger side they will only get worse i.e a price war with LBA and NCL and improving the present facilities.
I also don't see the end game as being either airport or development - there is plenty of scope for development around the a viable airport facility. As I've stated previously, if the airport closes the site loses its USP.
The customer base has eroded (i.e. KLM have said that they view MME as needing to consolidate and NCL as a place for expansion) and NCL and LBA have moved ahead in terms of developing their facilities - see this story in the Journal
£3.2m Newcastle International Airport extension is on schedule - Today's News - News - JournalLive
The losses at MME have previously been described as unsustainable and if they are to look to 'push hard' to improve the passenger side they will only get worse i.e a price war with LBA and NCL and improving the present facilities.
I also don't see the end game as being either airport or development - there is plenty of scope for development around the a viable airport facility. As I've stated previously, if the airport closes the site loses its USP.
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SWBKCB...
RYR don't seem too scared of competition. Using your logical they would have a base at HUY rather than LBA, BLK rather than LPL/MAN, CDF rather than BRS
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Peel Plc and a question that needs asking.
Peel will never give it 3 years at the losses that they publicly stated that DTV is currently suffering from.
They only have themselves to blame running the place down.
Last month they stated that airports dont fit into their plans.
The latest Peel Investment company has taken over the original shares they say, BUT will the Peel Plc parent company hand the south side cargo area land back to the airport and the council shareholders?
Its all been shoved under the carpet with no mention of the councils enquiring into who authorised the land to be given away to Peel Plc before VAS appeared on the horizon?
Is it legal? If it is can I have a couple of acres at DTV for nothing??
Someone amongst the 6 councils must have rubber stamped the secret deal with Peel Plc, or can Peel just take land without telling the councils and tax payers?
As it currently stands the land on the south side of R23 doesnt belong to anyone but Peel Plc from what I have been told.
Maybe the press or councils can ask some questions on behalf of the tax payers? I wonder if Peel Plc would like to publicly clarify the DTV land issue
They only have themselves to blame running the place down.
Last month they stated that airports dont fit into their plans.
The latest Peel Investment company has taken over the original shares they say, BUT will the Peel Plc parent company hand the south side cargo area land back to the airport and the council shareholders?
Its all been shoved under the carpet with no mention of the councils enquiring into who authorised the land to be given away to Peel Plc before VAS appeared on the horizon?
Is it legal? If it is can I have a couple of acres at DTV for nothing??
Someone amongst the 6 councils must have rubber stamped the secret deal with Peel Plc, or can Peel just take land without telling the councils and tax payers?
As it currently stands the land on the south side of R23 doesnt belong to anyone but Peel Plc from what I have been told.
Maybe the press or councils can ask some questions on behalf of the tax payers? I wonder if Peel Plc would like to publicly clarify the DTV land issue
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My take on Peel 'Investments' is exactly that... they will have bought DTVA from Peel Airports on the cheap.... they will invest in my opinion, somewhere between £2-£5m in the airport, then they will look to make a return by selling it properly in 3-5 years time. That is an Investment. It will look good on the Peel Group balance sheet also because they will have bought it.. off Peel Airports for cheap and will likely make a return (as far as the balance sheet is concerned).
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No-one's mentioned Vancouver/Vantage. Presumably since it's Peel Airports they own 65% of, they now own none of DTVA? And was this the main reason for the way the sale was done - VAS wanted out, and quick, and the only way for this to happen was for Peel to buy back their share (albeit with a slightly different title on the deeds)?
NS
NS
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Have already written a great deal on this topic & from what I can see then on the surface nothing has changed ! Airport in a mess, hemorrhaging cash nothing on the horizon that suggests any change, coupled with Shaun Woods the Airport Manager, "flapping around" in front of camera's adding absolutely nothing further to what has already been said in earlier statements.
Elsewhere Councillor Jim Beall, deputy leader of Stockton Borough Council, makes comments in the press as to Peels conduct, but perhaps it is he that should have the answers, or worked them out!!, as presumably he has held a position on the board of DTVA !!,
I think that the following comment on the Northern Echo site sums it up from a corporate view :-
Thus in summary all that has happened is an internal move within Peel, who have gone as far as to say that "Peel Airports Ltd" are to act in an advisory capacity (presumably for a large fee
). As to whether this exercise is merely a tax saving exercise (very likely), then who knows but otherwise how has the situation improved, other than to presumably reassure the existing operators i.e. KLM that there actually is a licensed airport in existence to which they can make forward plans.
A complete mess !!
Elsewhere Councillor Jim Beall, deputy leader of Stockton Borough Council, makes comments in the press as to Peels conduct, but perhaps it is he that should have the answers, or worked them out!!, as presumably he has held a position on the board of DTVA !!,
I think that the following comment on the Northern Echo site sums it up from a corporate view :-
Inspector Cluseau :-So the DTV shares have gone from Peel Plc to Peel Airports who sold 65% of the whole Peel Airport Group to VAS. Peel Airports and VAS have now sold the DTV shares to another new Peel company called Peel Investments! BUT while this clever share moving has been taking place, Peel Plc the parent company have given themselves the airport land to the south which was supposed to be a cargo centre. DTV Airport no longer own this land and neither do the councils from what I can make out?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for Peel didn't they make a statement recently saying the airport industry doesn’t fit in with their parent company? Could the latest Peel Investment company just be waiting to claim the rest of the council shares and claim all the DTV land?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for Peel didn't they make a statement recently saying the airport industry doesn’t fit in with their parent company? Could the latest Peel Investment company just be waiting to claim the rest of the council shares and claim all the DTV land?
). As to whether this exercise is merely a tax saving exercise (very likely), then who knows but otherwise how has the situation improved, other than to presumably reassure the existing operators i.e. KLM that there actually is a licensed airport in existence to which they can make forward plans.A complete mess !!
confused of teesside
well who knows..lots of valid points made by all..but will we ever know the truth/facts?
Peels reputation over this has taken a massive hit and i suspect really they wished they could have got out earlier and avoided this bad press.
by their own admission they are loosing 10000K per day..how will that be found?
its too late for this summer season,winter is a no go and i'm sure most 2013 brochures are ready for print...plans for which have been formalised and probably discounted dtv again because of this mess? that takes us to winter 2013..you get my drift..we are now into summer 2014 before i suspect any route development of any note..will Peel continue to cough up these massive daily loses with a smile on their face? i think not.
Peels reputation over this has taken a massive hit and i suspect really they wished they could have got out earlier and avoided this bad press.
by their own admission they are loosing 10000K per day..how will that be found?
its too late for this summer season,winter is a no go and i'm sure most 2013 brochures are ready for print...plans for which have been formalised and probably discounted dtv again because of this mess? that takes us to winter 2013..you get my drift..we are now into summer 2014 before i suspect any route development of any note..will Peel continue to cough up these massive daily loses with a smile on their face? i think not.
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NorthSouth No-one's mentioned Vancouver/Vantage. Presumably since it's Peel Airports they own 65% of, they now own none of DTVA? And was this the main reason for the way the sale was done - VAS wanted out, and quick, and the only way for this to happen was for Peel to buy back their share (albeit with a slightly different title on the deeds)?
The permutations as to events in the absence of full information, which one is unlikely to obtain are endless. I am now one who has the view that whatever has occoured then the Peel group have unwittingly promoted themselves into the public eye and that "the hatches will now be well battened down" to limit any further unneccessary disclosures.
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All very interesting, but who gives a toss! about ownership?
DTVA is/was a great little airport, but with LBA/NCL larger more prosperous catchment area next door it was always going to get squeezed, there was a brief period when bmibaby/bmi were there that it looked like it would have future, but LHR was never going to last post ICI and the Blair Government and baby called it wrong when they had the choice of going to either LBA or MME, they must of assumed that they could hike the yields from MME because no one else was there? but people went up or down the road!
Post crash it will not likely come back in time to save DTVA from closure, the numbers don't add up!
A decade ago fueled on cheap credit and Northern Rocks crazy 125% L2V mortgages, topping up your home loan to fund a holiday or a holiday home seemed to easy to be true, but that's what people did, coupled with oil <$40 dpb flying was dirt cheap, now its $116 dpb plus APD so you need a minimum £40 to cover taxes & surcharges before you add in any revenue for the airline, at a rough guess anything less than £60-£70 before bags is costing the airline and thats one way, so round trip minimum of £450-£500 for four people before holiday costs and thats before you convert your cash to Euro drinking vouchers.
Sooner or later it will close and become another Carisle,put simply there is no need for or demand for 3 airports in 80 miles between Leeds & Newcastle and the locals will be better off with a couple of thousand jobs on an industrial estate, that way at least they will be able to afford an holiday
Post crash it will not likely come back in time to save DTVA from closure, the numbers don't add up!
A decade ago fueled on cheap credit and Northern Rocks crazy 125% L2V mortgages, topping up your home loan to fund a holiday or a holiday home seemed to easy to be true, but that's what people did, coupled with oil <$40 dpb flying was dirt cheap, now its $116 dpb plus APD so you need a minimum £40 to cover taxes & surcharges before you add in any revenue for the airline, at a rough guess anything less than £60-£70 before bags is costing the airline and thats one way, so round trip minimum of £450-£500 for four people before holiday costs and thats before you convert your cash to Euro drinking vouchers.
Sooner or later it will close and become another Carisle,put simply there is no need for or demand for 3 airports in 80 miles between Leeds & Newcastle and the locals will be better off with a couple of thousand jobs on an industrial estate, that way at least they will be able to afford an holiday
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Facelookbovvered
Well put & totally agree with virtually all that you have said.
Indeed to add even more rationale to your argument, actually what percentage of the UK population are served by three airports within c.50 miles? Yes given that "down south" they may be bigger, but I would guess not too many people have or indeed need such a luxury !
As the commercial conclusions are a "no brainer", with then without the more sinister side of all this one may as well simply close this thread as there is no activity on the ground & little else !
Well put & totally agree with virtually all that you have said.
Indeed to add even more rationale to your argument, actually what percentage of the UK population are served by three airports within c.50 miles? Yes given that "down south" they may be bigger, but I would guess not too many people have or indeed need such a luxury !
As the commercial conclusions are a "no brainer", with then without the more sinister side of all this one may as well simply close this thread as there is no activity on the ground & little else !
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I've said it before I'll say it again, if there wasn't demand for three airports so close together how come it's managed to last nearly 50 years?????
With a little bit of effort by certain individuals DTVA could justify it's existance with great ease.
With a little bit of effort by certain individuals DTVA could justify it's existance with great ease.
lets hope there are another 50 years without Peel