DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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The DTV pax suggests that virtually no NCL pax migrate to DTV even when availability at NCL tight. Particular case in point very difficult to get last minute PMI flights ex NCL in June, whereas the asumumption is that DTV pax down on same no. of flights as 2012? thus spare capacity ?
If so then DTV has certainly lost the plot in its ability to attract floating pax, & perhaps "Get me some traffic's" observation as to PFF says it all.
It seems pretty obvious that no one is going to pay more for an inferior product.
It would be extremely interesting & indeed relevant if they were able to run a survey as to how far away departing pax travel to get to DTV. One suspects that it may that it is not very far at all and that the practical current catchment area is in reality now one of the lowest in the country.
If so then DTV has certainly lost the plot in its ability to attract floating pax, & perhaps "Get me some traffic's" observation as to PFF says it all.
It seems pretty obvious that no one is going to pay more for an inferior product.
It would be extremely interesting & indeed relevant if they were able to run a survey as to how far away departing pax travel to get to DTV. One suspects that it may that it is not very far at all and that the practical current catchment area is in reality now one of the lowest in the country.
Passenger figs.
Superb precis as usual from DJ6. It really illustrates what a mess the airport is in..terminal decline.
I cant see KLM pulling out though as they do have a core of passengers they can rely on.However they must be thinking it wouldn't do them any harm to pull the DTV operation as they would still pick up the lucrative passengers as they would just switch to Newcastle--as shown>
Peel as usual..remarkably quiet.I wonder if they run their other business like this onE !!
I cant see KLM pulling out though as they do have a core of passengers they can rely on.However they must be thinking it wouldn't do them any harm to pull the DTV operation as they would still pick up the lucrative passengers as they would just switch to Newcastle--as shown>
Peel as usual..remarkably quiet.I wonder if they run their other business like this onE !!
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Confession Time
I feel almost guilty saying this, but I'm a regular KLM flyer on business and this year, for the first time, I've done more KLM flights from Newcastle than I have MME. The reasons are varied but at the time of booking up:
1) Newcastle had better connections (less waiting time in AMS) as they have added frequency to NCL. I get longer at home on the way out or if arriving early back into AMS, I can leave to come home at 8ish on the morning (which is the first departure to NCL) rather than wait until 10 for the MME flight. I know there isn't much in it when you take the A1 into consideration, but after flying for 14 hours...all you want to do is get home and another two hour wait in AMS isn't appealing.
2) Cheaper prices. I will always compare the prices of the two, add in the pain/cost of the western bypass and make a call. Newcastle has come out cheaper on a few times this year.
3) Winter. Some of the flights earlier in the year were over the long winter months and I felt more comfortable booking them from Newcastle as I felt the airport had a greater chance of being open.
I've supported this airport for years, and will despite the decline, continue to give it my money BUT only when it is economic and practical to do so. I know travelling through it isn't the best experience but I don't go to an airport for an experience, I want to pass through it as quickly and painlessly as possible and despite the negatives so far this year, DTV is still quick and painless to travel through (grumpy security and border control excepted).
And on the subject of grumpy border control, I've now started leaving my passport in my wallet just to get shouted at for a bit of personal entertainment. I find it funny that with no passengers queuing and no more international arrivals for hours, someone will pass back my passport to me to ask me to take it out of my wallet.....heaven forbid they should take it out of the wallet themselves.
1) Newcastle had better connections (less waiting time in AMS) as they have added frequency to NCL. I get longer at home on the way out or if arriving early back into AMS, I can leave to come home at 8ish on the morning (which is the first departure to NCL) rather than wait until 10 for the MME flight. I know there isn't much in it when you take the A1 into consideration, but after flying for 14 hours...all you want to do is get home and another two hour wait in AMS isn't appealing.
2) Cheaper prices. I will always compare the prices of the two, add in the pain/cost of the western bypass and make a call. Newcastle has come out cheaper on a few times this year.
3) Winter. Some of the flights earlier in the year were over the long winter months and I felt more comfortable booking them from Newcastle as I felt the airport had a greater chance of being open.
I've supported this airport for years, and will despite the decline, continue to give it my money BUT only when it is economic and practical to do so. I know travelling through it isn't the best experience but I don't go to an airport for an experience, I want to pass through it as quickly and painlessly as possible and despite the negatives so far this year, DTV is still quick and painless to travel through (grumpy security and border control excepted).
And on the subject of grumpy border control, I've now started leaving my passport in my wallet just to get shouted at for a bit of personal entertainment. I find it funny that with no passengers queuing and no more international arrivals for hours, someone will pass back my passport to me to ask me to take it out of my wallet.....heaven forbid they should take it out of the wallet themselves.
Last edited by P330; 2nd Aug 2013 at 12:26.
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Peel plc - Not all they promised they would be.
Peel make a song and dance about the government applying taxes to flights yet Peel apply their own £6 extra tax just to travel through the place.
It just shows they are trying to keep people away. Lets see them scrap the £6 tax if they are serious about making the place attractive to customers.
They might need a few flights as well.
They are always announcing news in Doncaster through their friends webpage but its earily quiet up here.
The Northern Echo talks about the declining pax numbers and some of the public comment below the article on what they think.
Passenger numbers continue to fall at Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo)
The councils appear to be lapdogs to the whims of Peel. Why are some of the councillors still on the board for 8 years?
It just shows they are trying to keep people away. Lets see them scrap the £6 tax if they are serious about making the place attractive to customers.
They might need a few flights as well.
They are always announcing news in Doncaster through their friends webpage but its earily quiet up here.
The Northern Echo talks about the declining pax numbers and some of the public comment below the article on what they think.
Passenger numbers continue to fall at Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo)
The councils appear to be lapdogs to the whims of Peel. Why are some of the councillors still on the board for 8 years?
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Excellent piece of statistical analysis DJ6.
I remember reading that KLM look on NCL as a growth airport on their network.
apart from the Eastern ABZ route the outlook for MME looks increasingly bleak, such pax figures would make any potential operator run a mile.
I understand that 5M pax a year is needed to attract an influx of new operators and routes, which means NCL still has work to do.
I remember reading that KLM look on NCL as a growth airport on their network.
apart from the Eastern ABZ route the outlook for MME looks increasingly bleak, such pax figures would make any potential operator run a mile.
I understand that 5M pax a year is needed to attract an influx of new operators and routes, which means NCL still has work to do.
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Palma passenger figures
Just a little correction to the analysis for the Palma flights - last year they were on a Saturday and there were 5 flights in the month of June, this year they are on a Tuesday with only 4 flights. So by my reckoning, that means there were about 187 people on every flight to Palma in June 2013 - about a 98% load factor - not too bad now really.
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DJ6 Stats re NCL-JER
Just an obsevation re Jersey/over supply of seats. Summer 2012 had I think either 4 or 5 flights per week from NCL on 78 seat aircraft making 312 seats available each way if it was 4 or 390seats if it was 5.
Summer 2013 has just one 78 seater(FlyBe) and 2x 156 seaters (Easyjet) per week making 390 seats each way available.
So depending on the correct frequency for 2012 the increase in capacity is quite small or none at all.
Summer 2013 has just one 78 seater(FlyBe) and 2x 156 seaters (Easyjet) per week making 390 seats each way available.
So depending on the correct frequency for 2012 the increase in capacity is quite small or none at all.
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Councillors outraged!
Hartlepool councillors are outraged and members plan to write to the government to complain about recent RGF grant decision.
I'm sure Vince Cable will be straight up to speak to them.
The council should save the cost of a stamp and ask their own man on the inside at DTV to speak to Peel instead. I doubt they will get much sense out of Peel either.
Outrage over airport snub - Local - Hartlepool Mail
Has anybody explained about Peels track record with airports (Sheffied) to Robbie and his pals at the council?
It was only ever the land which Peel wanted Robbie
I'm sure Vince Cable will be straight up to speak to them.
The council should save the cost of a stamp and ask their own man on the inside at DTV to speak to Peel instead. I doubt they will get much sense out of Peel either.
Outrage over airport snub - Local - Hartlepool Mail
Has anybody explained about Peels track record with airports (Sheffied) to Robbie and his pals at the council?
It was only ever the land which Peel wanted Robbie
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Peels own news
Peel must believe their own spin. Posted 20 hours ago.
Aviation - The Peel Group
I didn't know they were comedians as well
Peel site.
When u click on the About us link. It comes up with =
Determination, perseverance, patience.
The main page puts this twadle out.
"Durham Tees Valley Airport
Huge investment in Durham Tees Valley Airport, by Peel, has resulted in an access road to the terminal, car park improvements and an enlargement of the terminal building. It serves UK and European destinations."
Peel must have a good spin doctor who writes this rubbish.
Aviation - The Peel Group
I didn't know they were comedians as well
Peel site.
When u click on the About us link. It comes up with =
Determination, perseverance, patience.
The main page puts this twadle out.
"Durham Tees Valley Airport
Huge investment in Durham Tees Valley Airport, by Peel, has resulted in an access road to the terminal, car park improvements and an enlargement of the terminal building. It serves UK and European destinations."
Peel must have a good spin doctor who writes this rubbish.
Last edited by Beafer; 7th Aug 2013 at 22:26. Reason: too many the's
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Peel must have a good spin doctor who writes this rubbish
You can hardly blame them for making some marketing spin for PR purposes....
Northbound - while provision of wifi to passengers and landing fees is interesting, I'm not sure I completely understand the point you're trying to make - could you perhaps rephrase slightly ?
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In reply to Davyjohnsons post,
If I owned DTV and had the millions which Peel have sat in their bank account I would introduce free wifi and cut landing fee's by half IF they want the airport to succeed??
I raised the point as its news mentioned in the last week which highlights where the management have lost the plot.
Lets face it Davy, the traffic would help buy fuel, use shops...thats if there any are left.
Its not brain surgery, but Peel management and the councillors who sit on the large director board dont appear to have a clue from where I'm sat
If I owned DTV and had the millions which Peel have sat in their bank account I would introduce free wifi and cut landing fee's by half IF they want the airport to succeed??
I raised the point as its news mentioned in the last week which highlights where the management have lost the plot.
Lets face it Davy, the traffic would help buy fuel, use shops...thats if there any are left.
Its not brain surgery, but Peel management and the councillors who sit on the large director board dont appear to have a clue from where I'm sat
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Don't have a clue?
North....
I would take issue with that statement about not having a clue. I don't work for Peel and am not here to defend them but I doubt any on this thread are experienced airport operators with an in depth business knowledge of how to change this situation around. Until we all are, I think its unfair to make comments like 'don't have a clue'.
What we can say, without a doubt is this:
1) Peel do not have a good track record.
2) The market for regional airports is hugely different to what it was 5-10 years ago.
Which other "very regional" airports are persuading scheduled airlines to come to them? Which others are getting charters to abandon their strategy of consolidation and invest in regions? Which other very regional airports are getting lo-co operators in who sustain operations there? If anyone can give me a list, and then add the question which of those airports have the same economical/catchment issues the DTV region has? The point I am trying to get at and I'm here to be proved wrong, I'd be surprised if there is another airport in the same situation as ours that is materially improving?
We all believe things can and should be better but I do think until there is a material change in industry norms, markets conditions, economic conditions etc, I can't see things changing significantly at DTV (in terms of a passenger airport).
Of course, private aviation, business aviation, scrapping and freight are other options - but my points relate specifically to passgenger operations.
I would take issue with that statement about not having a clue. I don't work for Peel and am not here to defend them but I doubt any on this thread are experienced airport operators with an in depth business knowledge of how to change this situation around. Until we all are, I think its unfair to make comments like 'don't have a clue'.
What we can say, without a doubt is this:
1) Peel do not have a good track record.
2) The market for regional airports is hugely different to what it was 5-10 years ago.
Which other "very regional" airports are persuading scheduled airlines to come to them? Which others are getting charters to abandon their strategy of consolidation and invest in regions? Which other very regional airports are getting lo-co operators in who sustain operations there? If anyone can give me a list, and then add the question which of those airports have the same economical/catchment issues the DTV region has? The point I am trying to get at and I'm here to be proved wrong, I'd be surprised if there is another airport in the same situation as ours that is materially improving?
We all believe things can and should be better but I do think until there is a material change in industry norms, markets conditions, economic conditions etc, I can't see things changing significantly at DTV (in terms of a passenger airport).
Of course, private aviation, business aviation, scrapping and freight are other options - but my points relate specifically to passgenger operations.
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Nil points p330...
Lets look at where NCL and LBA are now.
They have had to face the same difficult times, but hey they dont have Peel running the show and look at the success stories at both airports less than an hour away.
What experience do the many yes men councillors who sit on the DTV board bring to the table???
Not a lot except noses in troughs as usual
Here's a thought, the only person who appears to know how to operatate a business at DTV is the Sycamore MD. He might make a better airport if he was running the place.
I dont work for Peel either
Lets look at where NCL and LBA are now.
They have had to face the same difficult times, but hey they dont have Peel running the show and look at the success stories at both airports less than an hour away.
What experience do the many yes men councillors who sit on the DTV board bring to the table???
Not a lot except noses in troughs as usual
Here's a thought, the only person who appears to know how to operatate a business at DTV is the Sycamore MD. He might make a better airport if he was running the place.
I dont work for Peel either
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You've missed my point...
North - let me come back again...
You'll note I used the made-up term "very regional" airport. Its a nonsense term and maybe better expressed as a "minor regional". but my point is DTV is, was and always will be different to a major regional. NCL is a big city. Leeds is a big city with a financial district. You can add other regionals like BHX, MAN, EDI, GLA etc to that list.
My question about comparisons was to other "minor regional" airports. Can anyone come back to me with evidence of a minor regional airport seeing material success in the three areas I raised? If you can, and that airport is living in a region that has the same economic and social climate that DTV is....I'll shut up and get my coat now.
If you want to complain that DTV is not NCL or LBA and isn't seeing anything like the traffic that they are...then whilst I'll agree with your facts, I think the complaint you raise against Peel would likely be made against any other owner of DTV. "Teesside" and "Newcastle or Leeds" are totally different animals.
Compare apples with apples....
You'll note I used the made-up term "very regional" airport. Its a nonsense term and maybe better expressed as a "minor regional". but my point is DTV is, was and always will be different to a major regional. NCL is a big city. Leeds is a big city with a financial district. You can add other regionals like BHX, MAN, EDI, GLA etc to that list.
My question about comparisons was to other "minor regional" airports. Can anyone come back to me with evidence of a minor regional airport seeing material success in the three areas I raised? If you can, and that airport is living in a region that has the same economic and social climate that DTV is....I'll shut up and get my coat now.
If you want to complain that DTV is not NCL or LBA and isn't seeing anything like the traffic that they are...then whilst I'll agree with your facts, I think the complaint you raise against Peel would likely be made against any other owner of DTV. "Teesside" and "Newcastle or Leeds" are totally different animals.
Compare apples with apples....