DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5

[SWBKCB]

Just to clarify the position with Vancouver Airport Services - they bought a 65 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited, with the Peel Group retaining a 35 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited and a presence on the board.

[fa2fi]

Cant see Cobham losing too much sleep if MME shut. Thy could relocate to NCL or to one of the local airforce bases. Not sure what the flying clubs will do regards a licences field to train from but MME is hardly GA friendly. Maybe they will relocate, consolidate of shut. Still, I see there being a chance of it stayin open as a field perhaps just without passenger services.

[mmeman]

Surely this is an opportunity rather than the end. Everyone has been discussing for months that Peel just want the land to develop.. well clearly not.. Maybe Stobart are interested, develop it like they have at Southend.. Steve Gill said on BBC news that discussions had already taken place with some interested parties.

Funny day to announce this of course, only a couple of days after announcing the share reduction for the councils.. why not all at the same time? Not trying to bury bad news about KLM pulling out of Liverpool are they?

Also don't really understand why people don't have some local pride.. why not fly from MME instead of going all the way to Manchester and stay in a hotel? It really isn't that bad and even paying the £6 it would be cheaper! If it is that bad have you told the airport why, and what did they say to you?

If new owners came in and improved the experience would you come back as a passenger?

[roverman]

Also don't really understand why people don't have some local pride.. why not fly from MME instead of going all the way to Manchester and stay in a hotel?

For the same reason as people from Manchester drive/fly to Heathrow to take long-haul flights, sometimes on airlines who also fly out of MAN. Volume wins. The crazy skewed economics of this industry mean that it is often cheaper to do so.

[Richard Taylor]

"Surely this is an opportunity rather than the end. Everyone has been discussing for months that Peel just want the land to develop.. well clearly not.. Maybe Stobart are interested, develop it like they have at Southend.. Steve Gill said on BBC news that discussions had already taken place with some interested parties. "

What interested parties though? Fine if it's another Group interested in running it as an airport - but who would in these times? Not so good for those that wish to see it remain an airport if it's a Group of property developers looking to put up a new housing or industrial estate.

[horatio_b]

My one and only experience of DTV, last year, was spoiled by the attitude of an officious security guy. I emailed the airport to complain but never got a response.
Customer service is obviously not their strong point.
I have never been tempted to go back!

[ncleflights]

Is the main problem that at MME the demand for flights just simply does not exist in the immediate local area, Ryanair tried, BMI Baby tried, Wizz air tried - all failed to make enough money and left. You can have routes all over the place but if no one wants to fly them then they are not going to last and this is what has happened here.

Once the rot starts to set in then it needs sorting out quickly not a few years down the line as by then the decline is terminal and I fear this is what we are seeing here.

I would suspect that the future for MME lies unfortunately in a retail park, housing estate or business park and if we were not deep in recession then the planing application would already be in, the economic mess we are in may actually be keeping the patient alive. Does anyone, if your been honest with yourself, think that the airport can be saved as a going concern?

[learjet50]

tees side

Regretfully No Bull****


Bye Tees side airport

Its a shame we first went as a company 30 + years ago doing Pleasure Flights on Airport Open Days /// Air Shows in BN2A GAXXH howver those were the Halaycon days

Its so sad but Life


Gerry

X Northern Exec Avaition

[Barling Magna]

Well, I wouldn't hold out any great hope, but one tiny chink of light for DTV might be found in this interview with Andrew Tinkler, CEO of the Stobart Group, last month:

Tough and chatty, Tinkler is happy to discuss anything, equally unbothered if you disagree. His strength, he says, is in numbers, and spotting the main chance. Totally self-taught, he has never lost the urge to keep trying new things.

You can see that in the Stobart Group strategy. Buying Southend airport in Essex and obtaining permission to extend the runway, signing a 10-year deal with Easyjet, surprised some. Stobart already owns Carlisle airport, and Tinkler thinks a mix of freight and passengers can make small airports a very profitable concern. He may even buy more.

Certainly Stobart have revolutionised SEN and created a viable additional airport for London which has attracted EZY, and will no doubt attract others too.

[N707ZS]

A fresh start.

A good start, Teesside to Southend 2x3 times daily.
Flight to Frankfurt.
Flight to Paris.
Possibly bring back Ryanair, but how much would they want?
Freight fresh fruit produce inbound for the warehouses on the docks, ASDA/M&S. Stobart are already a big player in the transport from there.
Could EZY be temted away from "the gready fat boy up the road".

Don't forget the planning permission for the South side is for aviation related buisness only.

And at the end of the day which Northern airport is in the most dept?

[HH6702]

it will be sad to see the end of passenger flights at DTV but i cant see how it can go on. Both KLM and Eastern mustnt be making any money or if they are very little.

The airport is making no money and before long the like of travelex and WH smiths will close as they wont open if not making any money.

I think the airport could still operate just as a VIP operation and build on that.

Stobbart buying DTV dont think it will happen they have carlise just a few miles away so a little too close. Also if they did get it i dont think they would get easyjet to base at DTV... Easyjet have little intrest in NCL.

DTV needs a small aircraft operater like FLYBE with there E190's flying to spain, france, portugal etc. that kind of aircraft and operation would work.
other operators aircraft are just too big for DTV to make it work!!

sad for the area and workers....

KLM to state they are to withdraw in a few weeks once peel state they are to finish passenger service at DTV in march 2012..??

[skyman771]

swbkcb

Just to clarify the position with Vancouver Airport Services - they bought a 65 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited, with the Peel Group retaining a 35 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited and a presence on the board.

Don't think that you have clarified anything !!!
What you are stating then as Peel Airports are noted as owning 75% of DTV, then Peel only own 35% x 75% of DTV= just over 25% !! i.e a share just slightly higher than that of that of the L.A.'s !
Having not done a company search then I can not be sure, but this appears unlikely to be the position.

[DTVAirport]

I don't think a buyer will be found in the present climate, I think this will force Peel to place the facility into administration and that will mark the end.

It goes without saying that I would much rather the airport found a buyer and prospered, but I'm not disappointed that after years slogging along, with a question mark continuously lingering, there appears to finally be a conclusion just around the corner one way or another.

Sincerely hope I'm wrong about that first paragraph, but just being realistic.

[SWBKCB]

swbkcb
Quote:
Just to clarify the position with Vancouver Airport Services - they bought a 65 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited, with the Peel Group retaining a 35 per cent share in Peel Airports Limited and a presence on the board.
Don't think that you have clarified anything !!!
What you are stating then as Peel Airports are noted as owning 75% of DTV, then Peel only own 35% x 75% of DTV= just over 25% !! i.e a share just slightly higher than that of that of the L.A.'s !
Having not done a company search then I can not be sure, but this appears unlikely to be the position.

Earlier contributors were saying why were Peel getting all the mentions and Vancouver nothing - the answer is that it is Peel Airports Limited which is the majority shareholder in DTVA (75% before the recent 'dilution exercise'). Vancouver doesn't have any direct ownership of DTVA, but it is the majority shareholder in Peel Airports Limited with 65%, so yes Peel Group own 35% of the 75% of DTVA.

[P330]

KLM and Eastern

HH6702,

Go careful with the assumption about KLM and Eastern not making any money. Lets be clear, if both airlines had more profitable ways to deploy their aircraft...they would. Eastern charge premium prices to Aberdeen and make good returns....fuelled by oil and gas passengers.

I've already stated that KLM are committed to the airport providing the yields they currently make are maintained or improved upon. This means that even at 60% load factors....KLM are making satisfactory returns on the route. Despite the rumours mentioned on here, I maintain that KLM will remain whilstever the airport remains open and they can make money.

Add to the fact Skyman's point that if the airport is sold as a going concern, KLM are in an ideal position to bargain for a better deal as they are clearly the key airline if the airport is to continue as a civil operation.

Remember....businesses are in business to make money. That's why Peel want to sell up and that's also why Eastern to Aberdeen and KLM to Amsterdam have been around at MME for many years.....

[JKKne]

A good start, Teesside to Southend 2x3 times daily.
Flight to Frankfurt.
Flight to Paris.
Possibly bring back Ryanair, but how much would they want?
Freight fresh fruit produce inbound for the warehouses on the docks, ASDA/M&S. Stobart are already a big player in the transport from there.
Could EZY be temted away from "the gready fat boy up the road".

Don't forget the planning permission for the South side is for aviation related buisness only.

And at the end of the day which Northern airport is in the most dept?

If you can't make Heathrow a success why would Southend work?
If Newcastle can't get Frankfurt with its higher passenger numbers and presence already from Lufthansa why would MME?

Stobart bought Southend because it fits in with its business plan and its proximity to London. MME is not close to anything viable or important when compared to Stobarts Southend motives. And there's already a viable private jet market there and the potential of extra flights as the Olympics approach

You won't get major supermarkets moving depots without a massive financial incentive. ASDA have just invested heavily in its Washington Depot. M&S have the massive Bradford warehouse and Tesco have Doncaster.

It's all very well saying bring these back, do this. But it costs money and we're on the verge of a recession. MME is always going to be a small player. The demand simply isn't there. Its in a relatively poor region and has competition from better managed, developed and modern airports.

I think it should be let go with dignity instead of a final desperate claw back.

[jensdad]

Quoting 'Ncleflights': Is the main problem that at MME the demand for flights just simply does not exist in the immediate local area, Ryanair tried, BMI Baby tried, Wizz air tried - all failed to make enough money and left. You can have routes all over the place but if no one wants to fly them then they are not going to last and this is what has happened here.

Just my tuppence worth: It's unscientific I know, but whenever I travel through NCL, there are a large number of passengers with Durham and Teesside acents.
As previously mentioned, there is obviously a problem in that the steel, chemical industries etc have contracted, but these have been replaced by new industries to a certain extent. I really dont believe that the %reduction in passengers at MME is matched by the % reduction in people in MME's catchment area that are flying. The airport has gone into a vicious circle of less routes = lower passenger nos = less routes, ad infinitum. That creates problems in itself, but I really cant believe that an airline couldnt make money if they took a punt on a once or twice weekly A320 to Tenerife or Gran Canaria, or once a week to Rhodes or Crete, to pick some random examples.
From some of the comments on here, it sounds as if the attitude of a minority of the staff needs looking at , and the £6 fee sends out the wrong message.

[Hipennine]

Don't knock the potential of the supermarkets and the docks. They may have their big shiny DC's in Washington and places, but these are final delivery points before store. At the same time, they are investing big time in "port centric" logistics facilities, and especially Teesport where several have significant prescence, as they take over direct control of supply chains from the Med and further afield. Using MME as an adjunct to the "urgent" requirements may not be such a bad idea. Extended supply-chains are being stymied by the shipping lines consolidating frequencies, and steaming slowly. Suddenly air transport is becoming increasingly important in getting cheap goods onto supermarket shelves before either the fashion style or the technology ages.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Surely now that there is a possibility the airport won't even be there next year (at least in a passenger carrying mode) people will not risk booking any KLM flights from MME. Afterall the difference between profitability of a given route can be down to one or two people. The route is already marginal and therefore this route is a goner I would have thought.

There are always going to be Teesside accents at both NCL and LBA but the truth is the airport (MME) cannot stand on its own and be profitable. Enough airlines have given it a try and just not been able to make it work. Perhaps the people of the north east should be glad that they have relatively close airports at Leeds and Newcastle that offer a good selection of routes?

[N707ZS]

The Docks

After a bit of googling.
Asda/Walmart has a 1.2 million square foot warehouse and Tesco has a slightly smaller one at 0.36 million square foot.
So Washington might be a garden shed in comparison.