DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I was talking to a former Duty Officer from Teesside who, back in the 80s, got all of the airliner training sorties in by offering free landings as long as they buy their fuel from us. Was a nice way to keep the airport busy during the downturn in flights happening at the time.
BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews.
As for VAS, I've heard from someone else that a new route or routes is in the pipeline, so fingers crossed. They told me who and where, but I won't say anything yet as it's only rumour.
BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews.
As for VAS, I've heard from someone else that a new route or routes is in the pipeline, so fingers crossed. They told me who and where, but I won't say anything yet as it's only rumour.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Paarmo, I believe you got my point, but :-
...I guess that this is also standard issue to prison officers..
What I don't see is the actual value added of such flights being significant, the comment :-
Sums it up succinctly, you earn revenue from based aircraft & the personnel attached, but as for a few "wheelies" with the odd VC10 / Tristar belting out the decibels from the old Spey's or indeed "quieter" RB-211's then what else?
To me there would also seem to be a dearth of NATO heavy metal (or indeed any metal!) winging it's way across the North Sea to beat up the DTV circuit, may be I'm missing something ?
As for the RAF then don't they have their own bases to practice? as a tax payer then I can't see why one would want to expend money unnecessarily. In any event when the odd visit is necessary, presumably for variation?, then I have to assume that the facilities (ILS) at DTV inhibits many potential visits case in point, E3's don't seem to love DTV, judging by their propensity to visit NCL on such sorties!
Some of those real people wore and wear blue uniforms
What I don't see is the actual value added of such flights being significant, the comment :-
BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews.
To me there would also seem to be a dearth of NATO heavy metal (or indeed any metal!) winging it's way across the North Sea to beat up the DTV circuit, may be I'm missing something ?
As for the RAF then don't they have their own bases to practice? as a tax payer then I can't see why one would want to expend money unnecessarily. In any event when the odd visit is necessary, presumably for variation?, then I have to assume that the facilities (ILS) at DTV inhibits many potential visits case in point, E3's don't seem to love DTV, judging by their propensity to visit NCL on such sorties!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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and upset ATC with the extra work??
As to revenue, we don't get involved in billing side of things but I would guess money does change hands - how much though I wouldn't know.
As for those who complain about the noise, I would like to know how long they have lived there - most of the time the airport was there longer...if you don't like the noise don't buy a house near an airport
-HD-
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Teesside
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Skyman, unfortunately the RAF are a little light on training hours at the moment and aircrew do not get carte blanche to arrange their training anymore. These are the latest stats on military movements but if you reasearch further then you will see that there is a longtime association between Teesside and military aircrew. back to Home page
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I'm not sure what justification those stats assist with? Apart from the Charters which are presumably returning or delivering folk to Afghanistan the remaining handfull of approaches don't really make any impact on the viability or otherwise do they?
If the MOD wanted to go elsewhere then there are enough alternatives that would have little meaningful impact on their costs.
If the MOD wanted to go elsewhere then there are enough alternatives that would have little meaningful impact on their costs.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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mattfalcus:
Let's get real here. BA hasn't operated any form of the Vanguard since 1979 and basing one of them at Tees-side for a few weeks 31 years ago really doesn't give any guide to what's commercially possible for DTVA now. Additionally, while Tees-side was always a key diversion airport for Leeming when it was an active Tornado base, those days are over. And with Tees-side identified today as one of the regions likely to be worst affected by public spending cuts, the prospects of local demand for mass air travel saving the airport are not good. The takeover of Peel Airports operations by VAS only means there will be even more emphasis on every aspect of the airport making a profit, which means less staff, lower standards of service, and much greater effort to extract money out of traditional areas of airport operation (flying schools, Cobham). Other airports get round this these days by fleecing the public for car parking and shopping, but DTV hasn't got any punters so shopping and car parking aren't a viable source of revenue.
It's not a pretty picture but as soon as you hand over responsibility for airports from local authorities to (ultimately) some overseas asset-stripper you have to accept the consequences. Airports are a local public infrastructure asset so if you turn them over to private interests you open yourselves to all the risk associated with that.
NS
BA even based a Vanguard and BAC 1-11 at Teesside for a number of weeks to train crews
It's not a pretty picture but as soon as you hand over responsibility for airports from local authorities to (ultimately) some overseas asset-stripper you have to accept the consequences. Airports are a local public infrastructure asset so if you turn them over to private interests you open yourselves to all the risk associated with that.
NS
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NorthSouth
You don't actually have to even look overseas.
Peel only sold 65% of it's airports business to VAS, Peel airports owns 75% of DTV. One way or another then there is I suspect an element of "Jam tommorrow" in the deal for Peel
As per last published figures for Peel Holdings :-The latest accounts, for the year to March 2009, showed a 9 per cent fall in turnover from Ł53.4m to Ł48m, with pre-tax losses widening from Ł4.6m to Ł13m. Net debt grew to Ł105.5m.. Then in reality what do you expect VAS to do ? The introduction of the odd twice weekly flight to "where ever" in the greater context of the situation at DTV is unlikely to change much at all.
I recall reading some reference to the fact that VAS were to turn their attention to DTV in the first instance "cuts both ways" in my view, another winter in deficit ?
It's not a pretty picture but as soon as you hand over responsibility for airports from local authorities to (ultimately) some overseas asset-stripper you have to accept the consequences
Peel only sold 65% of it's airports business to VAS, Peel airports owns 75% of DTV. One way or another then there is I suspect an element of "Jam tommorrow" in the deal for Peel
As per last published figures for Peel Holdings :-The latest accounts, for the year to March 2009, showed a 9 per cent fall in turnover from Ł53.4m to Ł48m, with pre-tax losses widening from Ł4.6m to Ł13m. Net debt grew to Ł105.5m.. Then in reality what do you expect VAS to do ? The introduction of the odd twice weekly flight to "where ever" in the greater context of the situation at DTV is unlikely to change much at all.
I recall reading some reference to the fact that VAS were to turn their attention to DTV in the first instance "cuts both ways" in my view, another winter in deficit ?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I know at my secret scottish airbase the pilots if flying south prefer to go to Teesside as a diversion as theres less traffic there than at newcastle.
Also all the Jet provost at Cosford we trained on all have Teesside frequency cards in the cockpit!
Also all the Jet provost at Cosford we trained on all have Teesside frequency cards in the cockpit!
Join Date: Apr 2001
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jamier:
111 Sqn divs to Tees-side rather than Newcastle are all very well but (a) they have to have enough fuel to fly the extra 30+nm and (b) having done that they might as well go to Leeming.
As for freq cards in JPs at Cosford, I refer you to my previous post on BA Vanguards!
I reckon if it wasn't for Cobham the doors would have been shut by now.
NS
111 Sqn divs to Tees-side rather than Newcastle are all very well but (a) they have to have enough fuel to fly the extra 30+nm and (b) having done that they might as well go to Leeming.
As for freq cards in JPs at Cosford, I refer you to my previous post on BA Vanguards!
I reckon if it wasn't for Cobham the doors would have been shut by now.
NS
its getting dafter!!
My secret scottish air base!! 111 sq or any sq. what difference does it make where the pilots want to go?? surely they go where they can?? needs must?? when was the last time an operational sq.landed in dtv other than leeming aircraft? and i beleive they dont pay anyway if emergency..so no revenue there?
image the talk in the mess...think I will go to DTV tomorrow instead of newcastle if i need to land somwhere...rubbish..sorry! try getting a job on the board of peel or VAS !!
image the talk in the mess...think I will go to DTV tomorrow instead of newcastle if i need to land somwhere...rubbish..sorry! try getting a job on the board of peel or VAS !!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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DTVAirport
Who is the flight operating for ? nothing as yet on Monarch's site. Presumably a weekly "W" which appears to be simply a piece of "cherry picking".
Is it a full summer series?, only PMI competition based on this year would Thomsons 1xWkly offering so in reality this is 100% increase in capacity
... now there's one for the marketing team...
With reasonable promotion and prices... then another "bucket & spade" can't fail but the fact remains that 100% of "not a lot" isn't actually "much at all".
On the subject of the Spanish holiday market then currently for "S10" the only other offering is RYR's 3*wkly ALC which ends 31 October. Is this being reinstated/expanded for S11?
My earlier postings have been extremly skeptical of DTV's short / medium term viability & one has to presume that based on projections for S11 then the pax no.'s will continue to remain substantially below break even.
Am I missing something ?
Who is the flight operating for ? nothing as yet on Monarch's site. Presumably a weekly "W" which appears to be simply a piece of "cherry picking".
Is it a full summer series?, only PMI competition based on this year would Thomsons 1xWkly offering so in reality this is 100% increase in capacity
... now there's one for the marketing team...With reasonable promotion and prices... then another "bucket & spade" can't fail but the fact remains that 100% of "not a lot" isn't actually "much at all".
On the subject of the Spanish holiday market then currently for "S10" the only other offering is RYR's 3*wkly ALC which ends 31 October. Is this being reinstated/expanded for S11?
My earlier postings have been extremly skeptical of DTV's short / medium term viability & one has to presume that based on projections for S11 then the pax no.'s will continue to remain substantially below break even.
Am I missing something ?
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I first came across the MON flight on the Wikipedia page, but I don't trust that so upon doing a little digging I found the flight does exist & it's operating for Thomson, whether that's instead of this years PMI or as well as I don't know.
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Skyman - I'm interested in whether you actually want MME to recover. You seem to take a curious pleasure in remininding everyone how bad things are as often as you can, which achieves what exactly?
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Skyman is a glass half empty person and sees problems and conspiracy theories where they do not exist.
It is disparaging to all " bucket and spade " passengers to dismiss them as not worth bothering about which seems to come across in his comments. If I am wrong on this then I apologise in advance.
"Bucket and spade " flights are where small regional airports started and it is where they should place themselves in the market nowadays.Just look at who has been a stalwart of Teesside aviation and who are operating a very strong winter operation from Teesside , Thomson. Where are the Locos and Regional Carriers? Counting their money and not assisting in any way with Teesside's recovery.
"Bucket and spade " passengers are the airport operator's dream. Wodges of cash before departure and willing to pay for ice creams for the kids, a pint for dad and perfume, sunglasses and a book for mother. Bring them on.
As an aside VAS are "experts" at running an airport and not closing it down as hinted at in an earlier post.They have only been in post for a few weeks and I think they should be given a chance before you start sniping at their progress.
It is disparaging to all " bucket and spade " passengers to dismiss them as not worth bothering about which seems to come across in his comments. If I am wrong on this then I apologise in advance.
"Bucket and spade " flights are where small regional airports started and it is where they should place themselves in the market nowadays.Just look at who has been a stalwart of Teesside aviation and who are operating a very strong winter operation from Teesside , Thomson. Where are the Locos and Regional Carriers? Counting their money and not assisting in any way with Teesside's recovery.
"Bucket and spade " passengers are the airport operator's dream. Wodges of cash before departure and willing to pay for ice creams for the kids, a pint for dad and perfume, sunglasses and a book for mother. Bring them on.
As an aside VAS are "experts" at running an airport and not closing it down as hinted at in an earlier post.They have only been in post for a few weeks and I think they should be given a chance before you start sniping at their progress.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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paarmo - in the past I've viewed most of your posts as harsh attacks towards individuals as opposed to constructive criticism, and whereas that last post of yours begins the same way, you've hit the nail right on the head & I couldn't agree more.
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Skyman - I'm interested in whether you actually want MME to recover. You seem to take a curious pleasure in remininding everyone how bad things are as often as you can, which achieves what exactly?
In response I care about all the airports in the North East, as in general the level of services offered is falling away, though much more so at DTV to the South of the region.
I at no time whatsoever indicated that I want any business to fail that would be stupid & irresponsible. However having been involved in many business over the years then accountability is a major factor, you do well & achieve results then you receive the accolades Make a complete mess and you take the criticism, though more importantly positive steps need to be demonstrated that issues are being addressed, they do not go away by ignoring them.
The real world is that barring public service organizations, then business exist to make profit, those that don’t can’t continue indefinitely. What is the point of ignoring this, as in always “treating the glass as half full”?
Accepted that motivation is an element of any success as is team building, but where has this manifested itself in any significant level historically at DTV?
Finally business such airports don’t fail on their own, there are many complex & unfortunately political factors, however those individuals that have accepted the responsibility, taken the money & other benefits are accountable, that they have largely escaped with their reputations in tact justifies many of my earlier postings.
I wish VAS every success, that as yet there would appear to be little to seize upon doesn’t necessitate that one should remain silent.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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What's a thread hopper?
What does my location at the time I registered have to do with anything.
Do you actually have any constructive suggestions about how MME could attract new airline business for the benefit of the North East.
What does my location at the time I registered have to do with anything.
Do you actually have any constructive suggestions about how MME could attract new airline business for the benefit of the North East.