DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
I want to open a caravan site
All quiet on the western front..
Peel very quiet...I would hope they have a plan B(or is it H) It really is time to show how much they are committed to the future of the airport by putting in the 5 or so million required to kick start development?
Failure to do so will again throw the future of the airport in doubt..wonder if there is any mileage in the councils taking back under their control...for a similar outlay of course!!
Failure to do so will again throw the future of the airport in doubt..wonder if there is any mileage in the councils taking back under their control...for a similar outlay of course!!
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Indeed highwideandugly. Peel is supposed to be worth £6 billion, so if it would benefit the site and make them more money why not invest the £5 million themselves?
I would have thought a fiscally prudent owner is just what DTVA needs! 
I don't have a problem with Peel looking for Govt money where it is available, but the key is what they will do next. If the business case is that good they will push ahead (has been pointed out, they have the readies). If the business case is marginal, they'll need to consider when they stop chucking good money after bad.
On a different note, 767 arrived today for parting out - first widebody for Sycamore
I don't have a problem with Peel looking for Govt money where it is available, but the key is what they will do next. If the business case is that good they will push ahead (has been pointed out, they have the readies). If the business case is marginal, they'll need to consider when they stop chucking good money after bad.
On a different note, 767 arrived today for parting out - first widebody for Sycamore
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Despite not posting on this forum, I've followed this thread on and off for several years and have recently felt more and more inclined to add my two-penneth.
I definitely second the comment about the airport doing fine before Peel coming along and despite the fact that the Teesside area has been and is struggling economically, doesn't this increase the urgency and need for big companies in the area to drive change rather than contribute to stagnancy and decline?
Regardless of the RGF fund, Peel is a rich company and despite adding a new terminal frontage, rearranging the road network and introducing an unwanted name, what have been the products of Peel's investments?
And more importantly, what are they doing to turn the current situation around?
I think it can be easy to subscribe to the argument about MME being in the shadow of NCL and to a lesser extent, LBA. Let's just forget about them for the minute and instead believe that the people of Teesside deserve to use and benefit from the facility of the international airport that is on our doorstep.
What I'm most curious about is the accountability of Peel to the local people. Not just in terms of number of destinations from MME, but in terms of providing jobs, investment and contributing to the economy.
I'm just putting ideas out there but surely there are opportunities to attract cargo airlines such as DHL who appear to be running at capacity at EMA.
Or maybe Peel could compete for airlines such as Thomson or Thomas Cook for holiday flights to proven destinations like Palma, Alicante, Tenerife and Gran Canaria.
Is there a chance of having the Heathrow link reinstated with an airline like Virgin's Little Red.
If Peel:
Rename it Teesside Airport
Get rid of the PFF
Compete for new business
Wouldn't that prove that they are committed to the people of Teesside? And finally get things moving again?
I definitely second the comment about the airport doing fine before Peel coming along and despite the fact that the Teesside area has been and is struggling economically, doesn't this increase the urgency and need for big companies in the area to drive change rather than contribute to stagnancy and decline?
Regardless of the RGF fund, Peel is a rich company and despite adding a new terminal frontage, rearranging the road network and introducing an unwanted name, what have been the products of Peel's investments?
And more importantly, what are they doing to turn the current situation around?
I think it can be easy to subscribe to the argument about MME being in the shadow of NCL and to a lesser extent, LBA. Let's just forget about them for the minute and instead believe that the people of Teesside deserve to use and benefit from the facility of the international airport that is on our doorstep.
What I'm most curious about is the accountability of Peel to the local people. Not just in terms of number of destinations from MME, but in terms of providing jobs, investment and contributing to the economy.
I'm just putting ideas out there but surely there are opportunities to attract cargo airlines such as DHL who appear to be running at capacity at EMA.
Or maybe Peel could compete for airlines such as Thomson or Thomas Cook for holiday flights to proven destinations like Palma, Alicante, Tenerife and Gran Canaria.
Is there a chance of having the Heathrow link reinstated with an airline like Virgin's Little Red.
If Peel:
Rename it Teesside Airport
Get rid of the PFF
Compete for new business
Wouldn't that prove that they are committed to the people of Teesside? And finally get things moving again?
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Just for the sake of being a pedant and devil's advocate and injecting some long overdue reality here....
Before I start I couldn't care less about Peel nor do I have any vested interest, I just think this forum is swamped by dreamers and hopers and that good old "never say die" bunch of "fans" and is based purely on hope than realism for many. According to Wikipedia, reliability I cannot guarantee:
The airport has been going for 38 years before Peel were selected, not quite the 50 claimed.
Peel presided over continued growth for some period, up to the airport's record operations level.
To the best of my knowledge they (Peel) didn't cause the global recession which caused many of the community who might have used the airport to be unable to due to economic reasons.
Whether or not Peel are rich is irrelevant. They're a commercial operation not a charity and if it isn't making money and in their opinion (it's their cash so it's up to them remember) isn't likely to, then they won't invest further monies.
You can't ignore the elephant in the room. Two major competitors are on the doorstep and whether or not the good folk of Teesside deserve a facility is a moot point. They have a dwindling second class over-priced airport.
They're not. Only to shareholders so to some extent the local authorities but effectively not to the populace at large.
Not a snowballs chance. Have you any idea of the level of investment in the infrastructure in and around EMA that DHL have made? Check out Undercover Boss from a few weeks ago to see. Apart from being less than strategically located it's never going to happen.
They could, yes, even should. But on a dwindling market why would they when they can get better yields elsewhere? Apart from last year, package holidays have been declining year on year since the 70's.
No, absolutely none.
You may now proceed to shoot me down in flames and tell me how I should bugger off back to somewhere else etc etc ad nauseum.....
Before I start I couldn't care less about Peel nor do I have any vested interest, I just think this forum is swamped by dreamers and hopers and that good old "never say die" bunch of "fans" and is based purely on hope than realism for many. According to Wikipedia, reliability I cannot guarantee:
The airport has been going for 38 years before Peel were selected, not quite the 50 claimed.
Peel presided over continued growth for some period, up to the airport's record operations level.
To the best of my knowledge they (Peel) didn't cause the global recession which caused many of the community who might have used the airport to be unable to due to economic reasons.
Whether or not Peel are rich is irrelevant. They're a commercial operation not a charity and if it isn't making money and in their opinion (it's their cash so it's up to them remember) isn't likely to, then they won't invest further monies.
I think it can be easy to subscribe to the argument about MME being in the shadow of NCL and to a lesser extent, LBA. Let's just forget about them for the minute and instead believe that the people of Teesside deserve to use and benefit from the facility of the international airport that is on our doorstep.
What I'm most curious about is the accountability of Peel to the local people.
surely there are opportunities to attract cargo airlines such as DHL who appear to be running at capacity at EMA
Peel could compete for airlines such as Thomson or Thomas Cook for holiday flights to proven destinations like Palma, Alicante, Tenerife and Gran Canaria
Is there a chance of having the Heathrow link reinstated with an airline like Virgin's Little Red.
You may now proceed to shoot me down in flames and tell me how I should bugger off back to somewhere else etc etc ad nauseum.....
Last edited by andrewmcharlton; 15th Jul 2013 at 21:50.
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That didn't take you long...and the old conspiracy theory again.
Nothing to do with the industry or any of it's players whatsoever, used to be a frequent user in fact but don't let that get in the way of a good story.
Out of interest, why should they give it back for free or even your suggested price? Apart from your perceived moral obligations that is? Why don't you do an FOI request and get a copy of the deal?
Nothing to do with the industry or any of it's players whatsoever, used to be a frequent user in fact but don't let that get in the way of a good story.
Out of interest, why should they give it back for free or even your suggested price? Apart from your perceived moral obligations that is? Why don't you do an FOI request and get a copy of the deal?
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Dreamers
It's an interesting response, thank you for the detail.
Look, for any proposition there'll be people who take different points of view with differing optimism and pessimism.
Just to make it clear, my point about forgetting about NCL and LBA is this: They both serve city areas which due to their economies will of course provide more demand and this is reflected in their destinations and route frequencies. And quite rightly so.
I'm arguing for a level of service from MME which will help boost the area economically as well as providing a service to the people of Teesside and the wider region. I note andrewmcharlton resides in Newcastle so I wouldn't expect him to consider the facility the airport could provide to people in the Teesside area as a priority. But in my opinion, the "second rate" airport you mention is therefore having a detrimental effect on how people within and maybe outside of the north east view the economical potential of the area: and that's unacceptable and a cause for change. If the airport closes, how negative would the effect of that be on the area's economy?
Of course I have every idea of the level of investment that DHL have invested in EMA, but in order for MME to succeed there surely needs to be a fighting spirit and an innovative outlook to win new business. This is perhaps what people expect and are calling for on this forum, which whether it's the place to do it or not, shows the sentiment nonetheless.
It's probably the case that Peel just aren't good at running airports. Apart from LPL, the success of which is probably driven by easyJet and Ryanair, the state of Doncaster, DTVA and Sheffield City before them, do not provide a good track record. MME cannot afford to have half-bothered management and by re-commiting themselves to the airport when a buyer could not be found, Peel now need to step up and start delivering.
Look, for any proposition there'll be people who take different points of view with differing optimism and pessimism.
Just to make it clear, my point about forgetting about NCL and LBA is this: They both serve city areas which due to their economies will of course provide more demand and this is reflected in their destinations and route frequencies. And quite rightly so.
I'm arguing for a level of service from MME which will help boost the area economically as well as providing a service to the people of Teesside and the wider region. I note andrewmcharlton resides in Newcastle so I wouldn't expect him to consider the facility the airport could provide to people in the Teesside area as a priority. But in my opinion, the "second rate" airport you mention is therefore having a detrimental effect on how people within and maybe outside of the north east view the economical potential of the area: and that's unacceptable and a cause for change. If the airport closes, how negative would the effect of that be on the area's economy?
Of course I have every idea of the level of investment that DHL have invested in EMA, but in order for MME to succeed there surely needs to be a fighting spirit and an innovative outlook to win new business. This is perhaps what people expect and are calling for on this forum, which whether it's the place to do it or not, shows the sentiment nonetheless.
It's probably the case that Peel just aren't good at running airports. Apart from LPL, the success of which is probably driven by easyJet and Ryanair, the state of Doncaster, DTVA and Sheffield City before them, do not provide a good track record. MME cannot afford to have half-bothered management and by re-commiting themselves to the airport when a buyer could not be found, Peel now need to step up and start delivering.
but the pax numbers started to decline with operators jumping ship.
I haven't seen any feedback from the Labour councillors who are also DTV directors for an explanation on how the Diltion Notice occured and why they didnt fight the notice?
Apart from LPL, the success of which is probably driven by easyJet and Ryanair
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Success of LPL
It's not an illogical argument. LPL is successful because they have a driving force behind them (Ryanair/easyJet) and MME is lacking in success because they are also lacking a driving force (absence of such an airline). Peel is the common denominator in both, if you want to attribute failure to Peel then by all means go ahead. The point I'm making is that you've got airports such as Blackpool, Humberside and Exeter which all historically had lower patronage than MME before the recession and appear to be faring well with somewhat decent services in areas where you might describe as being dominated by larger airports. Is the reason for this because of strong leadership and a clear vision to compete and provide a service?
I'd be careful when saying the people of Teesside didn't show commitment to the airport. If any business loses custom, it's unlikely to be a wise move to blame the customers? If it's supposed to be a commercial operation, then they need to provide a level of service from the airport. The renaming was a major PR blunder gauging from the ever-lasting discourse in the local media and any investment in terms of facilities isn't entirely obvious to me. Having last used the airport in April, it didn't appear in any better condition than it was when I first flew from there over 10 years ago. But let's stop looking at the past and think about the future.
The question is... what's next? The attitude that somehow MME doesn't matter is prevelant on this forum but perhaps it is for the people from the area who require business and leisure services to decide. The people who would benefit from real investment in the place are the ones to whom any airport owners should be accountable, as the primary customers and benefactors of the facility.
I'd be careful when saying the people of Teesside didn't show commitment to the airport. If any business loses custom, it's unlikely to be a wise move to blame the customers? If it's supposed to be a commercial operation, then they need to provide a level of service from the airport. The renaming was a major PR blunder gauging from the ever-lasting discourse in the local media and any investment in terms of facilities isn't entirely obvious to me. Having last used the airport in April, it didn't appear in any better condition than it was when I first flew from there over 10 years ago. But let's stop looking at the past and think about the future.
The question is... what's next? The attitude that somehow MME doesn't matter is prevelant on this forum but perhaps it is for the people from the area who require business and leisure services to decide. The people who would benefit from real investment in the place are the ones to whom any airport owners should be accountable, as the primary customers and benefactors of the facility.
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SWBKCB 'Finally - it's the people of Teesside who haven't shown commitment to the airport.'
This shows how far out of the loop you are! Facts are that people used the airport when the operators were there providing services they wanted.
bmi messed the schedules around on the LHR so people wouldn't want to use the service and then when numbers dropped they cut the route!
People were using the bmibaby flights and they also used the Flyglobespan services. Holiday flights always have high load factors too.
In aviation you need the service provider to provide what the customer wants, if they don't provide the service the public can't use it!
If airlines put the service on with a sensible schedule then people will use the airport. Facts are only a few years ago almost 1 million were using the airport. I'm not saying that the airport will be back to that level overnight but people who were using the airport didn't just overnight decide not to use the place!
Finally it's not just people from Teesside who use the airport. I'm from North Yorkshire, certainly not Teesside!
This shows how far out of the loop you are! Facts are that people used the airport when the operators were there providing services they wanted.
bmi messed the schedules around on the LHR so people wouldn't want to use the service and then when numbers dropped they cut the route!
People were using the bmibaby flights and they also used the Flyglobespan services. Holiday flights always have high load factors too.
In aviation you need the service provider to provide what the customer wants, if they don't provide the service the public can't use it!
If airlines put the service on with a sensible schedule then people will use the airport. Facts are only a few years ago almost 1 million were using the airport. I'm not saying that the airport will be back to that level overnight but people who were using the airport didn't just overnight decide not to use the place!
Finally it's not just people from Teesside who use the airport. I'm from North Yorkshire, certainly not Teesside!
Two sides to every story
Onion - Exactly, the services need to be there before the public can use them. When the services where there 900,000 passengers used DTV in 2005.
bmi messed the schedules around on the LHR so people wouldn't want to use the service and then when numbers dropped they cut the route!
and used their slots for something making more money
People were using the bmibaby flights and they also used the Flyglobespan services.
Holiday flights always have high load factors too.
If airlines put the service on with a sensible schedule then people will use the airport. Facts are only a few years ago almost 1 million were using the airport.
And in the meantime both LBA and NCL have expanded and filled the vacuum.
Or is it all somebody elses fault?
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In response to andrewmcharlton's second last post, the global recession is not responsible for DTVA losing over two thirds of it's business as the bulk of said business had gone prior to this, the economy merely provided Peel with a convenient excuse and has since prevented a recovery of sorts for DTVA.
Also, whereas yes it's unlikely, should Virgin Atlantic Little Red decide to expand, DTVA should be in with just as much chance as anywhere else, the only thing that might give Newcastle an advantage is Virgin are likely to want to take on the competition (BA) at the source (NCL) rather from the neighbours, but DTVA could easily snatch the business from Newcastle if they really tried / wanted too.
That's probably looking a little too far ahead at the moment though (still, better than dwelling on the past mistakes like many of you on here!)
Also, whereas yes it's unlikely, should Virgin Atlantic Little Red decide to expand, DTVA should be in with just as much chance as anywhere else, the only thing that might give Newcastle an advantage is Virgin are likely to want to take on the competition (BA) at the source (NCL) rather from the neighbours, but DTVA could easily snatch the business from Newcastle if they really tried / wanted too.
That's probably looking a little too far ahead at the moment though (still, better than dwelling on the past mistakes like many of you on here!)
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In response to andrewmcharlton's second last post, the global recession is not responsible for DTVA losing over two thirds of it's business as the bulk of said business had gone prior to this, the economy merely provided Peel with a convenient excuse and has since prevented a recovery of sorts for DTVA.