DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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It clearly is very difficult to attract new routes to the airport, although there are small signs of a slight upturn with Ibiza and Bulgaria next year. The Jersey flight has been on a Embraer 170, rather than the Dash 8 so far, don't know if that is an indication of an increase in demand?
You also have to look at how successful the neighbours appear to be. Leeds has had a successful month in May and Newcastle too - also look at the passenger figures from Newcastle on the 2 scheduled routes from MME - Amsterdam and Aberdeen both up by over 30% on last year..must make it very difficult to retain the passengers on the flights from MME with such competition - although they do seem to hold up Aberdeen only had 60 passenegrs less than last year, although Amsterdam was down by 4%. Might be a bit conspiracy theory but has Newcastle deliberatly targeted these routes to 'hurt' the fights from MME? (Aberdeen has always had more passengers from MME so why didn't Eastern start extra flights from here?)
I just don't know if they should scrap the £6 fee and get Ryanair in,if no one else is willing, and get people back to flying from MME!
You also have to look at how successful the neighbours appear to be. Leeds has had a successful month in May and Newcastle too - also look at the passenger figures from Newcastle on the 2 scheduled routes from MME - Amsterdam and Aberdeen both up by over 30% on last year..must make it very difficult to retain the passengers on the flights from MME with such competition - although they do seem to hold up Aberdeen only had 60 passenegrs less than last year, although Amsterdam was down by 4%. Might be a bit conspiracy theory but has Newcastle deliberatly targeted these routes to 'hurt' the fights from MME? (Aberdeen has always had more passengers from MME so why didn't Eastern start extra flights from here?)
I just don't know if they should scrap the £6 fee and get Ryanair in,if no one else is willing, and get people back to flying from MME!
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Might be a bit conspiracy theory but has Newcastle deliberatly targeted these routes to 'hurt' the fights from MME? (Aberdeen has always had more passengers from MME so why didn't Eastern start extra flights from here?)
Conspiracy
Dont think Newcastle has much say in persuading airlines to operate from there instead of here? But it is a worring downward trend.rember KLM/DTV much vaunted publicity about a new beginning etc at DTV? well that certainly worked!
More simple reasons probably...its a flippin useless airport and too far gone
!
More simple reasons probably...its a flippin useless airport and too far gone
!
Erm, don't they have planning permission for industrial units on the southside so there would be something wrong if they weren't talking to builders, or do you specifically mean house builders??
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I heard that Hughey is having a ball at the local hospital trust in which he is described as a key driver 
Meet the board | South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
Hugh Lang
Non-executive member
Hugh Lang became group airports director of Peel Airports Group in 2008, with responsibility for the management and operation of Liverpool John Lennon Airport, Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport and Durham Tees Valley Airport.
In both his airport capacity and as Chairman of Tees Valley Unlimited (the governing body of the Tees Valley City region), Mr Lang has particular interests in the long term economic development of the region and the key drivers required to deliver positive growth.
Meet the board | South Tees Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
Hugh Lang
Non-executive member
Hugh Lang became group airports director of Peel Airports Group in 2008, with responsibility for the management and operation of Liverpool John Lennon Airport, Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport and Durham Tees Valley Airport.
In both his airport capacity and as Chairman of Tees Valley Unlimited (the governing body of the Tees Valley City region), Mr Lang has particular interests in the long term economic development of the region and the key drivers required to deliver positive growth.
Last edited by Beafer; 27th Jun 2013 at 19:59.
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A distant rumour was travel agents used to get more money to sell Newcastle possibly the reason for Newcastle's debt problem.
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Travel Agent, why then did travel agents always push NCL over MME? This is from personal experience over several years. When I knew the service was there from MME did the travel agent always suggest a search of NCL, MAN/LBA and the MME? This wasn't isolated many people have had the same experience! Just to let you know this isn't a new thing my experiences happened 10+ years back and were in Darlington and Richmond!
I'm not saying they got paid more to push NCL over MME, but it did happen and right on MME's door step so to speak!
I'm not saying they got paid more to push NCL over MME, but it did happen and right on MME's door step so to speak!
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onion, I think that sort of thing happens a lot - I recently enquired at a city centre long haul specialist travel agent about flights to New York for July and was immediately given prices from LHR instead of BHX, despite there being a daily UA BHX-EWR flight. To be fair, LHR flights were cheaper than UA from BHX so that's probably why they were offered first but you would have thought they would have looked at BHX first and then LHR.
Obviously it's frustrating and those who are not so route knowledgeable will go for the first flight they are offered and assume that a flight to the same destination is not available from their local airport. Maybe there were big differences in prices between MME and NCL when you enquired, to be honest I would have thought NCL flights were probably cheaper?
Obviously it's frustrating and those who are not so route knowledgeable will go for the first flight they are offered and assume that a flight to the same destination is not available from their local airport. Maybe there were big differences in prices between MME and NCL when you enquired, to be honest I would have thought NCL flights were probably cheaper?
It's the weekend and I've had a chance to crunch the CAA stats again:
Overall message - NCL is growing much more healthily than DTV
DTV had 13,801 pax in May, up 1.3 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 173 pax
DTV rolling year has 163,811 pax
NCL had 407,859 pax in May, up 4.0 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 15,712 pax
NCL rolling year has 4,381,899 pax
In May 2012, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 28.8 passengers at NCL
In May 2013, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 29.6 passengers at NCL
As an additional reference, in May 2009 (i.e. post credit crunch), for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 15.2 passengers at NCL
Aberdeen route for May
DTV - 3,135 pax, down 2% from 3,195 pax, meaning a loss of 60 passengers
NCL - 2,860 pax, up 35% from 2,122 pax, meaning a gain of 738 passengers
Palma route for May
DTV - 1,230 pax, up 2% from 1,207 pax meaning a gain of 23 passengers
NCL - 30,658 pax, up 4% from 29,442 pax meaning a gain of 1,216 passengers
Amsterdam route for May
DTV - 8,048 pax, down 4% from 8,406 pax meaning a loss of 358 passengers
NCL - 30,343 pax, up 34% from 22,641 pax meaning a gain of 7,702 passengers
Note - Easyjet began flying NCL-AMS 5x weekly from Dec 2012.
On a Europe-wide basis, Easyjet saw a load factor in May of 88.1%
Easyjet flew NCL-AMS on 23 days in May. Using, a 156-seat A319 with 88.1% load factor (ie average of 137.4 pax turn up for a flight), we get 6,320 passengers, which falls far short of the NCL-AMS route being up by 7,702 passengers - this suggests KLM are seeing passenger numbers up by 6% on the NCL-AMS route, in contrast to DTV-AMS being down 4%
Even if we assume Easyjet had a 100% load factor, KLM are still seeing NCL doing significantly better year-on-year compared to MME
Thus KLM is seeing a clear shift by passengers from MME to NCL, even if Easyjet are seeing 100% load factors on their NCL-AMS route.
Overall message - NCL is growing much more healthily than DTV
DTV had 13,801 pax in May, up 1.3 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 173 pax
DTV rolling year has 163,811 pax
NCL had 407,859 pax in May, up 4.0 % on May 2012 - gain equates to 15,712 pax
NCL rolling year has 4,381,899 pax
In May 2012, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 28.8 passengers at NCL
In May 2013, for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 29.6 passengers at NCL
As an additional reference, in May 2009 (i.e. post credit crunch), for every 1 passenger at DTV, there were 15.2 passengers at NCL
Aberdeen route for May
DTV - 3,135 pax, down 2% from 3,195 pax, meaning a loss of 60 passengers
NCL - 2,860 pax, up 35% from 2,122 pax, meaning a gain of 738 passengers
Palma route for May
DTV - 1,230 pax, up 2% from 1,207 pax meaning a gain of 23 passengers
NCL - 30,658 pax, up 4% from 29,442 pax meaning a gain of 1,216 passengers
Amsterdam route for May
DTV - 8,048 pax, down 4% from 8,406 pax meaning a loss of 358 passengers
NCL - 30,343 pax, up 34% from 22,641 pax meaning a gain of 7,702 passengers
Note - Easyjet began flying NCL-AMS 5x weekly from Dec 2012.
On a Europe-wide basis, Easyjet saw a load factor in May of 88.1%
Easyjet flew NCL-AMS on 23 days in May. Using, a 156-seat A319 with 88.1% load factor (ie average of 137.4 pax turn up for a flight), we get 6,320 passengers, which falls far short of the NCL-AMS route being up by 7,702 passengers - this suggests KLM are seeing passenger numbers up by 6% on the NCL-AMS route, in contrast to DTV-AMS being down 4%
Even if we assume Easyjet had a 100% load factor, KLM are still seeing NCL doing significantly better year-on-year compared to MME
Thus KLM is seeing a clear shift by passengers from MME to NCL, even if Easyjet are seeing 100% load factors on their NCL-AMS route.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 18th Jul 2013 at 16:51.
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The travel agent problem has been ongoing for decades, whether it's down to financial incentives or not, they are clearly biased towards NCL.
During the start-up phase of the FoDTVA group it was planned that their members would go into the various travel agents and act as mystery shoppers but other things have since taken priority, perhaps it's time they looked back into this.
During the start-up phase of the FoDTVA group it was planned that their members would go into the various travel agents and act as mystery shoppers but other things have since taken priority, perhaps it's time they looked back into this.
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GayFriendly, to be honest NCL were on occasions cheaper but it was 50/50! Sometimes and on the last occasion flying into PMI it was around £50 cheaper to fly from MME. Plus when it came down to it I always found it cheaper to fly from MME in the end after costs added on. It was always strange. For instance Richmond is about as close to NCL as it is to LBA time wise but they always without fail offered NCL first. It maybe that staff aren't trained properly! On occasions I had to give the IATA code for MME to them as they weren't sure of it!
Use of the word bias suggests that travel agents are acting unfairly or irrationally towards MME.
There might be any number of reasons price, previous customer experience (i.e. you offer 10 customers MME 1st then NCL 2nd and 9 of them chose NCL, what would you offer customer 11??), timings, etc
Might be useful for FoDTVA to do some (unbiased
) research to find out whats going on.
There might be any number of reasons price, previous customer experience (i.e. you offer 10 customers MME 1st then NCL 2nd and 9 of them chose NCL, what would you offer customer 11??), timings, etc
Might be useful for FoDTVA to do some (unbiased
) research to find out whats going on.
Last edited by SWBKCB; 22nd Jun 2013 at 20:59.
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I was a travel agent for years and a tour operator called Seguro started offering holidays from Prestwick; as did Laker Vacations in the 90s.
They did pay us more commission as they were new to the market; and so we did recommend them. But we always checked what was on offer from Glasgow too.
So maybe a tour operator that flies from Newcastle but not Tees-side is offering more commissions?
Also, flight times are a consideration; as is the knowledge of the travel agent.
For example, don't expect Thomas Cook travel agents to recommend a Thomson Holiday from Tees-Side if Thomas Cook have a Newcastle option. And vv.
They did pay us more commission as they were new to the market; and so we did recommend them. But we always checked what was on offer from Glasgow too.
So maybe a tour operator that flies from Newcastle but not Tees-side is offering more commissions?
Also, flight times are a consideration; as is the knowledge of the travel agent.
For example, don't expect Thomas Cook travel agents to recommend a Thomson Holiday from Tees-Side if Thomas Cook have a Newcastle option. And vv.
Last edited by SealinkBF; 22nd Jun 2013 at 23:55.
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SealinkBF I have never flown out of MME in the middle of the night and actually avoided it. To suggest I am stupid enough to go into a Thomson travel agent and expect them to push Thomas Cook holidays is a little insulting!
I am not trying to be funny but travel agents in what should be prime MME catchment areas pushed NCL and LBA over MME! I was there! I am not a spotter or some kind of MME supporting nutter! I ve agreed that price wise NCL on occasions has been cheaper but in my experience and others I have spoken too, travel agents push NCL and LBA over MME. Either they are getting some sort of incentive or are being pushed by their tour operator or they are unaware that flights are available from MME, which I think is more likely!
I am not trying to be funny but travel agents in what should be prime MME catchment areas pushed NCL and LBA over MME! I was there! I am not a spotter or some kind of MME supporting nutter! I ve agreed that price wise NCL on occasions has been cheaper but in my experience and others I have spoken too, travel agents push NCL and LBA over MME. Either they are getting some sort of incentive or are being pushed by their tour operator or they are unaware that flights are available from MME, which I think is more likely!
Agents Bias ??
Interesting discussion...are we talking historical here as the only destinations from MME remain Alicante/Palma/tenerife...so you can only compare to three destinations really.If Newcastle say have 20 flights to each and teesside only one to each(per week) then its obvious(to me) that NCL will probably always be cheaper? Supply and demand. Correct me if wrong but I think there are no holiday type flights this winter? and only a token Ibiza next year? So figures will continue to slide giving Peel ample reason to pull the plug?
More worrying as I said in a previous post is slow decline of the core routes,ABZ and AMS. This cant be good?
More worrying as I said in a previous post is slow decline of the core routes,ABZ and AMS. This cant be good?
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highwideandugly
Absolutely the most relevant item on the last few threads.
One can pontificate all day as to the existence & effect of specific incentives. However you need to reduce all this down to marketing & the strength of the product.
a)You can palm anything off on an ignorant punter, tell them that the best option to destination "X" is out of airport "Y". However a more informed punters aware of the existence of potential alternatives, are likely to enquire "what about service/route that they had noted" ?
& b) unfortunately for DTV it's not always down to absolute price, but more about customer experience, timings, & convenience.
Getting back to the current issues, then on the presumption that KL & DTV have put the necessary resource into a) then the effect of b) is driving figures forward at NCL at the expence of DTV.
Unfortunately there would appear to be virtually nothing that DTV can do in the short term to address this.
Post Script I noted the progress of "HL" with interest & perhaps staying in a hospital environment is the best place for him, albeit without "KQ" as nurse
More worrying as I said in a previous post is slow decline of the core routes,ABZ and AMS.
One can pontificate all day as to the existence & effect of specific incentives. However you need to reduce all this down to marketing & the strength of the product.
a)You can palm anything off on an ignorant punter, tell them that the best option to destination "X" is out of airport "Y". However a more informed punters aware of the existence of potential alternatives, are likely to enquire "what about service/route that they had noted" ?
& b) unfortunately for DTV it's not always down to absolute price, but more about customer experience, timings, & convenience.
Getting back to the current issues, then on the presumption that KL & DTV have put the necessary resource into a) then the effect of b) is driving figures forward at NCL at the expence of DTV.
Unfortunately there would appear to be virtually nothing that DTV can do in the short term to address this.
Post Script I noted the progress of "HL" with interest & perhaps staying in a hospital environment is the best place for him, albeit without "KQ" as nurse