EasyJet - 4
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one post only -
YOUR ACCUSATION AGAINST ME (your words not mine): "comparing the admin fee to racism, sexism or homophobia."
How does that work? How do you compare an admin fee to racism? Or sexism? Or homophobia? It is a fee! That is why your own "utterly ridiculous" comment befits your own remarks rather than what I wrote.
What I did do (and explained in clear English) was to compare a minority group (single travellers) with other minority groups, making the point that it is deemed acceptable by EasyJet to discriminate against one minority group in a way that they would not dare to attempt against others.
I note that in the latest retort you triumphantly proclaim that I did compare *IT* to racism or sexism. Good choice of word there. Because "it" wasn't the fee I compared (as you said earlier). "It" was the relative treatment of singles versus other minority groups.
Once again, you appear keen to argue against what you want me to have written rather than against what I actually have written. Please don't do that. It is tiresome.
NOTE: This comment was submitted as a response to a posting which is no longer visible on the thread.
YOUR ACCUSATION AGAINST ME (your words not mine): "comparing the admin fee to racism, sexism or homophobia."
How does that work? How do you compare an admin fee to racism? Or sexism? Or homophobia? It is a fee! That is why your own "utterly ridiculous" comment befits your own remarks rather than what I wrote.
What I did do (and explained in clear English) was to compare a minority group (single travellers) with other minority groups, making the point that it is deemed acceptable by EasyJet to discriminate against one minority group in a way that they would not dare to attempt against others.
I note that in the latest retort you triumphantly proclaim that I did compare *IT* to racism or sexism. Good choice of word there. Because "it" wasn't the fee I compared (as you said earlier). "It" was the relative treatment of singles versus other minority groups.
Once again, you appear keen to argue against what you want me to have written rather than against what I actually have written. Please don't do that. It is tiresome.
NOTE: This comment was submitted as a response to a posting which is no longer visible on the thread.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 15th Feb 2012 at 00:22.
shed and one post - I'm sure that you both mean well and you both raise good points, but could you try to resolve your differences of opinion through private messaging please ?
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Methinks people are far too exercised by the £9.00
I fly for business and will make a decision based on price and convenience. providing the convenience is there lets look at it this way on price.
Airline A all charges included £150 return
Airline B all charges included £140 return
Easyjets £90 plus the £9 fee = £99 return
Will I say no I wont fly easy because of that damnable fee, course not.
I fly for business and will make a decision based on price and convenience. providing the convenience is there lets look at it this way on price.
Airline A all charges included £150 return
Airline B all charges included £140 return
Easyjets £90 plus the £9 fee = £99 return
Will I say no I wont fly easy because of that damnable fee, course not.
Whereas, to us, an extra £9 on a £50+ flight (paid for out of our own pocket) makes a very significant difference.
shed and one post - I'm sure that you both mean well and you both raise good points, but could you try to resolve your differences of opinion through private messaging please ?
Agree completely DJ6
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'Exactly. As a single business flyer, an extra £9 on a £90+ flight (paid for by the business) makes little difference to you.
Whereas, to us, an extra £9 on a £50+ flight (paid for out of our own pocket) makes a very significant difference.'
You miss my point if the £59.00 is still cheaper than the other options available is it not still a better deal.
Whereas, to us, an extra £9 on a £50+ flight (paid for out of our own pocket) makes a very significant difference.'
You miss my point if the £59.00 is still cheaper than the other options available is it not still a better deal.
You miss my point if the £59.00 is still cheaper than the other options available is it not still a better deal.
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EZY ADMIN FEE
Some excellent points in previous posts.
I agree with comment attracting about having spent a great deal of time attracting single business traveller (who pays himself), then shooting yourself in the foot. Yes - not every single traveller is a rich business traveller.
From what i can see we are now paying for ezy directors nice big bonus.
Go get 'em stelios
I agree with comment attracting about having spent a great deal of time attracting single business traveller (who pays himself), then shooting yourself in the foot. Yes - not every single traveller is a rich business traveller.
From what i can see we are now paying for ezy directors nice big bonus.
Go get 'em stelios
Stelios has his own agenda. He has been kicking up a fuss about various things and bonuses are just the latest. Do I agree with the bonuses? That depends but let's face it, big bonuses come with big business and Easyjet aren't the exception by any stretch. Bonuses may seem excessive but that's the going rate regardless of whether it's ethical or not. What I will say in support of the board, Carolyn McCall in particular, is that they have turned OTP around incredibly from a historical low of Summer 2010 to the best summer in its 16 year history in 2011. Profit has exceeded expectation, pax numbers have generally increased and so has yield. So whist we can debate the bonus figure, we really can't argue the premise behind the bonus payment. I can be their biggest critic at times but looking at it in cold hard business facts, I arrive at my above judgement.
With such a strong performance from Easyjet you have to ask yourself what actually is Stelios' problem?
The card fee: I've already conceded that I think legislation should be brought in to level the playing field and stop things such as booking fee's, admin fee's, fuel surcharges etc..... Not just with airlines but everywhere. However, my argument on singe travellers is this. It's a booking fee....one transaction is one booking so why should someone pay more than once just because there are multiple people on the one booking? I visited a car park in Barnsley today. I arrived at the same time as a family yet I had to pay the same as 4 people. Is it fair? Yes because you pay per car just like you pay per booking at EZY. Get over it.
With such a strong performance from Easyjet you have to ask yourself what actually is Stelios' problem?
The card fee: I've already conceded that I think legislation should be brought in to level the playing field and stop things such as booking fee's, admin fee's, fuel surcharges etc..... Not just with airlines but everywhere. However, my argument on singe travellers is this. It's a booking fee....one transaction is one booking so why should someone pay more than once just because there are multiple people on the one booking? I visited a car park in Barnsley today. I arrived at the same time as a family yet I had to pay the same as 4 people. Is it fair? Yes because you pay per car just like you pay per booking at EZY. Get over it.
Last edited by easyflyer83; 11th Oct 2012 at 21:27.
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easyflyer83 -
I am familiar with your posting record and note that you inject alot of common sense into the discussions to which you contribute. So be assured that it is with respect that I point out that your car parking analogy doesn't work here. When four people travel with EasyJet they pay four fares (one each); the "admin fee" is levied in addition to this for a reason which is not clearly explained. The product being purchased by the EasyJet customer is a flight / journey, not the opportunity to use a proprietary in-house booking facility. When one parks a car, the only sum paid is the price levied for parking a vehicle in a convenient secure location for a specified period of time. There is no additional "admin fee" charged for using the ticket machine in any car park I have come across. Therefore, the equivalent comparison has to be the fare (EasyJet) versus the parking charge (car park). The car park levies a single inclusive fee charged on the basis of one space being occupied; all cars are charged identical rates for equivalent parking.
Aside from the unequal application of the EasyJet "admin fee" (I will not repeat earlier points made on this issue) there can be no suggestion that GBP9.00 in any way reflects the cost of EZY's reservation system processing a transaction (regardless of how many heads actually book). I cannot see any justification for such an item to be charged separately from the headline fare. And this headline fare should ideally be comprised of all inherent costs incurred in supplying the service provided, plus a reasonable profit margin for the operator.
Moving on to your point about Stelios and EasyJet management bonuses. I agree with you that Stelios has a broad agenda which stretches well beyond bonus disputes. Bonuses are no more than the ammunition-du-jour in an ongoing public civil war within EasyJet; an excuse for further insults to be traded. I have actually posted on this subject in the past, suggesting that an amicable separation between the two parties would be the optimum outcome. This could be achieved by Stelios and related parties placing their shares with a willing institutional buyer, as selling into the open market would destroy the share price. EasyJet is a generally attractive business and it should be possible to find a party which would be interested in buying out the family's stake.
With regard to EasyJet's management performance, I would suggest that they have generally done a good job over recent years. They have moved into major airports, taken the image upmarket, improved OTP, made tentative inroads into the business market, and ... most importantly ... produced good load factors and healthy financial returns. Actually, this is one of the reasons why I am so disappointed by the recent "admin fee" fiasco. It is the first notable retrograde step by the EZY management in a long time, and the first decision in years which thrusts the company back downmarket in the direction of the industry spivs. Additional hidden charges are not the way to go, particularly inequitably applied ones.
I did make an earlier tongue-in-cheek remark suggesting that the management should perhaps forego some of their bonus in view of the "admin charge" blunder. In reality, I think that the good things the management team has achieved still outweigh the bad, and I do favour incentivising management teams generally for achieving profit targets and maintaining an elevated shareprice relative to industry peers. For me, the "admin fee" is an ugly own-goal which requires corrective action, but overall the company has done more right than wrong. A battle has been forfeited, but the war is not lost. I do hope that EasyJet will recognise the wisdom of resuming its gradual ascent upmarket, and that it will not follow up the "admin fee" with similar unsavoury stunts drawn from the realms of the lowest common denominator.
I certainly would like to see an amicable divorce agreed between EasyJet and Stelios as a matter of urgency. The company has bent over backwards to accommodate his demands, including special dividends distributed and fleet orders curtailed. Management must be given the freedom to structure the company to meet the challenges of the marketplace rather than the demands of a former majority owner with increased personal income seemingly his sole priority. As part of this process, EasyJet in turn needs to continue to improve its reputation and consequent appeal to business (as well as leisure) travellers. Dodgy hidden charges added late in the booking process undeniably damage the customer experience, an unexpected retrograde step which is sad to see at this point in EasyJet's development.
In conclusion, easyflyer83, I agree with pretty much all your points except that relating to the inequitable "admin fee" and the associated car parking analogy.
Best Regards. SHED.
I am familiar with your posting record and note that you inject alot of common sense into the discussions to which you contribute. So be assured that it is with respect that I point out that your car parking analogy doesn't work here. When four people travel with EasyJet they pay four fares (one each); the "admin fee" is levied in addition to this for a reason which is not clearly explained. The product being purchased by the EasyJet customer is a flight / journey, not the opportunity to use a proprietary in-house booking facility. When one parks a car, the only sum paid is the price levied for parking a vehicle in a convenient secure location for a specified period of time. There is no additional "admin fee" charged for using the ticket machine in any car park I have come across. Therefore, the equivalent comparison has to be the fare (EasyJet) versus the parking charge (car park). The car park levies a single inclusive fee charged on the basis of one space being occupied; all cars are charged identical rates for equivalent parking.
Aside from the unequal application of the EasyJet "admin fee" (I will not repeat earlier points made on this issue) there can be no suggestion that GBP9.00 in any way reflects the cost of EZY's reservation system processing a transaction (regardless of how many heads actually book). I cannot see any justification for such an item to be charged separately from the headline fare. And this headline fare should ideally be comprised of all inherent costs incurred in supplying the service provided, plus a reasonable profit margin for the operator.
Moving on to your point about Stelios and EasyJet management bonuses. I agree with you that Stelios has a broad agenda which stretches well beyond bonus disputes. Bonuses are no more than the ammunition-du-jour in an ongoing public civil war within EasyJet; an excuse for further insults to be traded. I have actually posted on this subject in the past, suggesting that an amicable separation between the two parties would be the optimum outcome. This could be achieved by Stelios and related parties placing their shares with a willing institutional buyer, as selling into the open market would destroy the share price. EasyJet is a generally attractive business and it should be possible to find a party which would be interested in buying out the family's stake.
With regard to EasyJet's management performance, I would suggest that they have generally done a good job over recent years. They have moved into major airports, taken the image upmarket, improved OTP, made tentative inroads into the business market, and ... most importantly ... produced good load factors and healthy financial returns. Actually, this is one of the reasons why I am so disappointed by the recent "admin fee" fiasco. It is the first notable retrograde step by the EZY management in a long time, and the first decision in years which thrusts the company back downmarket in the direction of the industry spivs. Additional hidden charges are not the way to go, particularly inequitably applied ones.
I did make an earlier tongue-in-cheek remark suggesting that the management should perhaps forego some of their bonus in view of the "admin charge" blunder. In reality, I think that the good things the management team has achieved still outweigh the bad, and I do favour incentivising management teams generally for achieving profit targets and maintaining an elevated shareprice relative to industry peers. For me, the "admin fee" is an ugly own-goal which requires corrective action, but overall the company has done more right than wrong. A battle has been forfeited, but the war is not lost. I do hope that EasyJet will recognise the wisdom of resuming its gradual ascent upmarket, and that it will not follow up the "admin fee" with similar unsavoury stunts drawn from the realms of the lowest common denominator.
I certainly would like to see an amicable divorce agreed between EasyJet and Stelios as a matter of urgency. The company has bent over backwards to accommodate his demands, including special dividends distributed and fleet orders curtailed. Management must be given the freedom to structure the company to meet the challenges of the marketplace rather than the demands of a former majority owner with increased personal income seemingly his sole priority. As part of this process, EasyJet in turn needs to continue to improve its reputation and consequent appeal to business (as well as leisure) travellers. Dodgy hidden charges added late in the booking process undeniably damage the customer experience, an unexpected retrograde step which is sad to see at this point in EasyJet's development.
In conclusion, easyflyer83, I agree with pretty much all your points except that relating to the inequitable "admin fee" and the associated car parking analogy.
Best Regards. SHED.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 15th Feb 2012 at 03:06.
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I visited a car park in Barnsley today. I arrived at the same time as a family yet I had to pay the same as 4 people. Is it fair? Yes because you pay per car just like you pay per booking at EZY. Get over it.
one car (with four people) = one space
one car (with one person) = one space
four people on plane = four seats
... however, one person on plane = only one seat
simples
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I don't want to appear as an Easyjet apologist, but to see fair play I have to make a small point about the admin fee.
Shed says that it should be shown up front as it's part of the fare. Sounds reasonable at first glance, but that assumes you're only booking the one flight.
Even as a single traveller (which I tend to be most of the time), you may well book several flights in the same transaction; for instance, if you're travelling somewhere on a weekly basis you might book a block of flights to take advantage of the current cheaper price (and get the job out of the way for a while).
For that booking the admin fee is a total of £9, even if there are (say) nine journeys involved; so it would be wrong to advertise each flight as including a £9 fee. In this example the fee is only £1 per flight.
Shed says that it should be shown up front as it's part of the fare. Sounds reasonable at first glance, but that assumes you're only booking the one flight.
Even as a single traveller (which I tend to be most of the time), you may well book several flights in the same transaction; for instance, if you're travelling somewhere on a weekly basis you might book a block of flights to take advantage of the current cheaper price (and get the job out of the way for a while).
For that booking the admin fee is a total of £9, even if there are (say) nine journeys involved; so it would be wrong to advertise each flight as including a £9 fee. In this example the fee is only £1 per flight.
one car (with four people) = one space
one car (with one person) = one space
four people on plane = four seats
... however, one person on plane = only one seat
simples
one car (with four people) = one space
one car (with one person) = one space
four people on plane = One Transaction
... however, one person on plane = only one Transaction
simples
You see we can both validate our argument simply by filling in the blanks as I've done above. A booking fee is a fee for a transaction. Why charger 4 times if it's just one transaction? That is my point.
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The obsession with the fee amazes me, it is totally irrelevant, what matters is the final price, if Easy is cheaper use them if not use another airline simples.
Any chance we could get back to news about routes etc.
Any chance we could get back to news about routes etc.
pwalhx whilst I agree with you, and the debate has run on quite a while, it is as relevant to the subject of Easyjet as routes and aircraft are. Even you felt the need to wade in with your opinion which says alot.
I too prefer route talk etc but you can't really force the convo......especially in the absence of route news.
I too prefer route talk etc but you can't really force the convo......especially in the absence of route news.
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Brilliant. An otherwise rather quiet thread injected with some life by some old fella off on a rant about discrimination against singles (the last minority group not yet brutally oppressed)!! Ahahahah quality! Some well made points eclipsed by the old man, stick shaking rant!
Ahhh well it gave me something to giggle about anyway!!! Me thinks someone needs to chill out and take up bridge instead??
Back on course.....heard from someone that would know, that the CEO has been taking a few trips down to the headquarters of Flybe recently for meetings??? Anyone know anything about this???
Ahhh well it gave me something to giggle about anyway!!! Me thinks someone needs to chill out and take up bridge instead??
Back on course.....heard from someone that would know, that the CEO has been taking a few trips down to the headquarters of Flybe recently for meetings??? Anyone know anything about this???
Flew EZY from LPL to GVA week last Sunday on an afternoon flight. Airport empty, queue was reasonably short and the staff at check-in and bag drop were hardly overworked - so why the grumpy attitude? Really snotty women who did not give a good impression of their company. No-one said anything to upset them, no-one did the wrong thing by arguing or queue jumping. Everyone was waiting calmly and when we get to the counter we were all faced with aggressive attitude.
Flying home, much nicer, more helpful despite the end of a busy day with a fairly busy airport.
Hmm - must be the Mersey water!
Flying home, much nicer, more helpful despite the end of a busy day with a fairly busy airport.
Hmm - must be the Mersey water!
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Allocated Seating
Anyone heard any more about allocated seating? It's gone very quiet. With a pod portion of the summer programme sold already, is it not a bit late in the day?