NEWCASTLE - 8
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Newcastle airport isn't easy to get to for everyone. People living south of the river don't find it that easy. They can also connect more locally via Durham and Darlo and to a lesser extent Morpeth. NCL airport is very easy to access for those north of the airport, unfortunately most people live south and east of the airport.
It offers one departure point for the people of the north east vs four points of departure for the train.
There are hourly direct rail links. No changing involved. Your car is also literally steps away from the train door. No faffing about with car park shuttles - which now take up to 15 minutes toe preach certain car parks at the airport. You can also drive it in just over three hours.
The market has spoken. If a 29 (sometimes 19 seat) seater can't make it work then I very much doubt anyone else can make it work. For most people in the real world cost is king.
You also can't put a price on finishing a meeting early in town and getting straight to the station and on the next train home. No hassle of getting to the airport. No waiting hours for the next flight home. With the train it's a 59minute wait worst case scenario. You can't put a price on that flexibility and convenience. Even better if you're in first where you can chill out in a lounge and once you're onboard you get some food (way better than the standard eastern airways cereal bar).
As always I hope to be proven wrong.
It offers one departure point for the people of the north east vs four points of departure for the train.
There are hourly direct rail links. No changing involved. Your car is also literally steps away from the train door. No faffing about with car park shuttles - which now take up to 15 minutes toe preach certain car parks at the airport. You can also drive it in just over three hours.
The market has spoken. If a 29 (sometimes 19 seat) seater can't make it work then I very much doubt anyone else can make it work. For most people in the real world cost is king.
You also can't put a price on finishing a meeting early in town and getting straight to the station and on the next train home. No hassle of getting to the airport. No waiting hours for the next flight home. With the train it's a 59minute wait worst case scenario. You can't put a price on that flexibility and convenience. Even better if you're in first where you can chill out in a lounge and once you're onboard you get some food (way better than the standard eastern airways cereal bar).
As always I hope to be proven wrong.
People living south of the river don't find it that easy. They can also connect more locally via Durham and Darlo and to a lesser extent Morpeth. NCL airport is very easy to access for those north of the airport, unfortunately most people live south and east of the airport
You can also drive it in just over three hours.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Morpeth is easier than most places to connect to the airport but it also has regular(ish) direct service to BHX. Of all the rail stops Morpeth is the easiest to get to for all of the locations mentioned.
I used to drive it for years. South of the river to BHX just over three hours. Stuck in traffic once. But then again let's not pretend flying isn't subject to delays. Particularly when you're CAT1.
If people think NCLBHX is viable then do explain why T3 have dropped the route and who could profitably replace them on the route.
Spotters can argue til they're blue in the face. Unfortunately it's fare paying bums on seats that make a route viable. Tragically there's aren't enough to bums paying a sufficient fare to make the route viable. To my knowledge it's not that T3 have used the 'we can make more money on a different route' excuse as I can't think of new routes or increased frequencies from them.
I used to drive it for years. South of the river to BHX just over three hours. Stuck in traffic once. But then again let's not pretend flying isn't subject to delays. Particularly when you're CAT1.
If people think NCLBHX is viable then do explain why T3 have dropped the route and who could profitably replace them on the route.
Spotters can argue til they're blue in the face. Unfortunately it's fare paying bums on seats that make a route viable. Tragically there's aren't enough to bums paying a sufficient fare to make the route viable. To my knowledge it's not that T3 have used the 'we can make more money on a different route' excuse as I can't think of new routes or increased frequencies from them.
If you can get to Morpeth train station easily, you can get to NCL easily - doubt whether anybody south of the river uses it to get to Brum.
All forms of transport are subject to delays but the Cross Country trains to Brum are not a pleasant experience at peak times, neither is driving Newcastle to Birmingham.
Eastern are a niche operator aiming at a certain market (those on expenses not paying their own fares).
All forms of transport are subject to delays but the Cross Country trains to Brum are not a pleasant experience at peak times, neither is driving Newcastle to Birmingham.
Eastern are a niche operator aiming at a certain market (those on expenses not paying their own fares).
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Indeed expenses account are good for a route. However there's clearly not enough to make it viable. I can't imagine any leisure travellers using the route.
On the plane they confiscate your bag and there's no wifi u like the train. Another big plus for the train.
On the plane they confiscate your bag and there's no wifi u like the train. Another big plus for the train.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Gateshead, UK
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My argument was mainly that for NCL-BHX, flybe could offer flights for 1/3 or even 1/6 of the price. If there were "enough" passengers to keep Eastern on the route for as long as they did, paying the fares Eastern charged, then logic (to me) would dictate that more people would pay cheaper fares, espacially when those fares also open the market up to leisure travellers, as well as connecting traffic onto Flybe's other routes from the BHX base
I would also make the same argument for flights from NCL-MAN, it's just a inconvenient to get to from NCL, and I think that as one of the largest airports in the UK, with a good selection of Flybe codeshares on the route, such as Cathay, Etihad and Virgin, I think it could also support itself
If the airport were to back it, offer 30 minute check in with security fast track, then 25/30 minutes on the metro from Newcastle/Gateshead, 30 minute check in, 30/40 minute flight and 10 minutes through to airside... I'd say that was pretty competitive with the train, especially if it was cheaper
Not forgetting the added advantage of being able to check your bags in at NCL and not see them until you land in HKG with Cathay, SYD with Etihad or BOS with Virgin
I would also make the same argument for flights from NCL-MAN, it's just a inconvenient to get to from NCL, and I think that as one of the largest airports in the UK, with a good selection of Flybe codeshares on the route, such as Cathay, Etihad and Virgin, I think it could also support itself
If the airport were to back it, offer 30 minute check in with security fast track, then 25/30 minutes on the metro from Newcastle/Gateshead, 30 minute check in, 30/40 minute flight and 10 minutes through to airside... I'd say that was pretty competitive with the train, especially if it was cheaper
Not forgetting the added advantage of being able to check your bags in at NCL and not see them until you land in HKG with Cathay, SYD with Etihad or BOS with Virgin
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Beaumaris
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During 2001 and into 2002 I used BHX-NCL service with BA almost every week up on Tuesday and down on Friday. It was 4x 1-5 and 1X 7 late afternoon, hot breakfast and bar trolley other flights. Weekend leisure fare, stay Sat night either way was £49 rtn. Of course in those days BA operated a hub at BHX on many times we were 'held' to await connecting pax arriving on BA (eg MXP, FRA, DUS CDG BCN and so on) and even AA ORD too all using the Eurohub terminal. At one point they dropped down to 3x 1-5 adding an additional NCL-CWL rotation instead. However after a couple of months this was swapped back. As a regular traveller I got to know the cabin crew and got all the inside info, CWL just didn't attract sufficient pax v fourth BHX service. I was travelling on business, although after this assignment I continued to use the service for personal weekend visits to wonderful Newcastle.
I very rarely used rail, to be comfortable on a long journey, in my case continuing on the same train to Leamington Spa, you needed to travel first class which was expensive, similar to unrestricted weekday airfare, and in those days the food service on the train was not good, and BA terraces lounges were a great place to wait if you got to the airport early.
Maybe the BA feed ability helped sustain loads and yield, the early morning flight BHX-NCL was always very well used as was the NCL-BHX evening return. I used the two other flights rarely but they were about 50% I recall.
Not sure this helps the debate but just wanted to share my experience from a while ago.
I very rarely used rail, to be comfortable on a long journey, in my case continuing on the same train to Leamington Spa, you needed to travel first class which was expensive, similar to unrestricted weekday airfare, and in those days the food service on the train was not good, and BA terraces lounges were a great place to wait if you got to the airport early.
Maybe the BA feed ability helped sustain loads and yield, the early morning flight BHX-NCL was always very well used as was the NCL-BHX evening return. I used the two other flights rarely but they were about 50% I recall.
Not sure this helps the debate but just wanted to share my experience from a while ago.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dubai and Sunderland
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I wasn't surprised Eastern dropped BHX the hole UK domestic market has changed massively over the last 10-15 years with APD and rail deregulation. Plus business is either very techno savvy or not willing to pay the large fares Eastern made the route work with!
What I do object to comments wise is NCL being difficult to get to from south of the river, I commuted for 18 years Sunderland-NCL and only ever found problems during road works and then only during peak times! What I do think is a problem is the reliability of the Metro! I used to use this all the time for mid day flights from NCL then after the nearly missing three flights by train break downs and only making it because I jumped in a taxi, I gave up! I only use metro these days for non time critical journeys!!
What I do object to comments wise is NCL being difficult to get to from south of the river, I commuted for 18 years Sunderland-NCL and only ever found problems during road works and then only during peak times! What I do think is a problem is the reliability of the Metro! I used to use this all the time for mid day flights from NCL then after the nearly missing three flights by train break downs and only making it because I jumped in a taxi, I gave up! I only use metro these days for non time critical journeys!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Gateshead, UK
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I just hope one day that the government will see that the domestic aviation market, and the rest of the UK aviation market, will thrive without APD
Thank you FQTLSteve, nice to hear it called "Wonderful Newcastle" as well, hopefully you'll be able to pop up on a Flybe Dash 8 one day
Thank you FQTLSteve, nice to hear it called "Wonderful Newcastle" as well, hopefully you'll be able to pop up on a Flybe Dash 8 one day
10 DME ARC, unfortunately the A19 is now full on a morning and the roadwork's are becoming part of local history! No idea what the rail situation is like but from Teesside you first have to get to Darlington.
Join Date: May 2013
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Has it been confirmed that easyjet won't be restoring Rhodes for Summer '17? Or is it just an assumption on wikipedia because the full summer schedule isn't out
It is peculiar, however, if they are to continue for next summer, that Rhodes and Split wont start until early July
It is peculiar, however, if they are to continue for next summer, that Rhodes and Split wont start until early July
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Durham
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Eurowings Dusseldorf
From Sunday coming (30th Oct), Dusseldorf flights will be operated by Eurowings and Germanwings "on behalf of Eurowings" Airbus A320 series aircraft
- Should add some capacity!
From Sunday coming (30th Oct), Dusseldorf flights will be operated by Eurowings and Germanwings "on behalf of Eurowings" Airbus A320 series aircraft
- Should add some capacity!