MANCHESTER - 7
I Have Control
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Remove the responsible MAN management! Here's why...
With the reduction in pax numbers, is it now time to reduce the staff numbers in the bloated "Security Army"? So many of these people clearly having nothing to do.
And how about a staff channel avoiding the ridiculous Duty-Free area in T1? Or does MAN not care about On-Time-Performance? Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free. The slow passage of people is by design of course, as in all supermarkets, but stupidly the "designers" forgot about the staff who need to get to work on time. They cannot simply turn up for work earlier than scheduled..by law.
As for the long-winded ATIS, scope provided for further unnecessary delays to flights. Professional pilots do not need to be told to stop at Stop Bars. They know this. No other ATIS carries this warning. Or the rest...the worst ATIS in Western Europe for superfluous content. Time waste. And as for the delays and excess fuel burn due to the taxiway/apron work..I honestly despair. We sit there burning hundreds of gallons every week waiting our turn to taxi onto stand or to the active runway.
The mixed standard of ATC is worthy of mention too. Preventing a/c from crossing 23R when the next landing a/c is at 4 miles is downright negligent and unprofessional. This so often happens when the taxiways are empty on the other side and a/c are ready to go. Fuel/time wastage again. Vectoring onto final approach is hardly any better. Hot and high is too often the rule.
Personally, I will in part be delighted if MAN suffers grievious financial problems. I don't care for the "management". . Given the disastrous recent years of mismanagement and poor planning, the place deserves all it gets. Sadly not so the workers. Including myself. One of the poorest-run airports in Europe. As acknowledged by many of my colleagues from a range of MAN-based airlines. With much more experience than many posters on this site.
And how about a staff channel avoiding the ridiculous Duty-Free area in T1? Or does MAN not care about On-Time-Performance? Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free. The slow passage of people is by design of course, as in all supermarkets, but stupidly the "designers" forgot about the staff who need to get to work on time. They cannot simply turn up for work earlier than scheduled..by law.
As for the long-winded ATIS, scope provided for further unnecessary delays to flights. Professional pilots do not need to be told to stop at Stop Bars. They know this. No other ATIS carries this warning. Or the rest...the worst ATIS in Western Europe for superfluous content. Time waste. And as for the delays and excess fuel burn due to the taxiway/apron work..I honestly despair. We sit there burning hundreds of gallons every week waiting our turn to taxi onto stand or to the active runway.
The mixed standard of ATC is worthy of mention too. Preventing a/c from crossing 23R when the next landing a/c is at 4 miles is downright negligent and unprofessional. This so often happens when the taxiways are empty on the other side and a/c are ready to go. Fuel/time wastage again. Vectoring onto final approach is hardly any better. Hot and high is too often the rule.
Personally, I will in part be delighted if MAN suffers grievious financial problems. I don't care for the "management". . Given the disastrous recent years of mismanagement and poor planning, the place deserves all it gets. Sadly not so the workers. Including myself. One of the poorest-run airports in Europe. As acknowledged by many of my colleagues from a range of MAN-based airlines. With much more experience than many posters on this site.
Last edited by RoyHudd; 8th Dec 2008 at 19:08.
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MAN
Taking a deep breath. One of the most stupid posts that I've read here in many a while...
Suggesting that Security staff are reduced? To help you get to the gate earier. I suggest that you use the security search area via Check In Desk 1 in T1.
You mention that 'pilots don't need to be told to stop at Stop Bars'. Yes they do. It's to avoid runway incursions that have occurred in the last two years.
Delays due to taxiway work? So you don't want airports to improve the facilities and aircraft capability then?
And you will be delighted if MAN suffers grievous financial problems? I won't be delighted if your employer does. I hope that you retain a secure and financially successful job, but stupid comments like yours are unbelievably arrogant. I hope that you are not one of the BA LGW folks who today found that their jobs had dissapeared.
Suggesting that Security staff are reduced? To help you get to the gate earier. I suggest that you use the security search area via Check In Desk 1 in T1.
You mention that 'pilots don't need to be told to stop at Stop Bars'. Yes they do. It's to avoid runway incursions that have occurred in the last two years.
Delays due to taxiway work? So you don't want airports to improve the facilities and aircraft capability then?
And you will be delighted if MAN suffers grievous financial problems? I won't be delighted if your employer does. I hope that you retain a secure and financially successful job, but stupid comments like yours are unbelievably arrogant. I hope that you are not one of the BA LGW folks who today found that their jobs had dissapeared.
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The poor standard of ATC is worthy of mention too. Preventing a/c from crossing 23R when the next landing a/c is at 4 miles is downright negligent and unprofessional. Vectoring onto final approach is hardly any better. Hot and high is the rule
Hot and high, ask for a longer final to be [more?] stable, or go around, and explain why.
bb
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route re-timings
From 1/4/09, EY21/22 will arrive at MAN 15:00, departing at 21:00, spending 5 hours on the ground at MAN, using an A330-200 (source etihad.com)
also, CSA re-introducing a night stopping service, arriving MAN 22:30, departing 07:50, using a B737-500 (source CSA website)
also, CSA re-introducing a night stopping service, arriving MAN 22:30, departing 07:50, using a B737-500 (source CSA website)
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Mr Hudd
There are more ways to get Airside than via the Duty Free Shopping Area
But there again you would have to get Cold to go via the Security Yard and of course you would not be able to pose to all the passengers in your
(I m a Captain Uniform)
Get off the Staff Bus at the Railway Station and go via West Gate or get off at T1 and walk to the T3 Security Area
We all have to get via Security some way or another
)
Some Crew think they should be given the Golden Carpet treatment
(Stand aside Aircrew Approching}
I ve been there Got the Tee Shirt your not kidding anybody
I would Like to see u in ATC trying to get A/C across and Active Runway when you dont know the whole situation and its I m a Captain Cross me ASAP even if there is 1 at 4 miles
GET A LIFE MAN
There are more ways to get Airside than via the Duty Free Shopping Area
But there again you would have to get Cold to go via the Security Yard and of course you would not be able to pose to all the passengers in your
(I m a Captain Uniform)
Get off the Staff Bus at the Railway Station and go via West Gate or get off at T1 and walk to the T3 Security Area
We all have to get via Security some way or another
)
Some Crew think they should be given the Golden Carpet treatment
(Stand aside Aircrew Approching}
I ve been there Got the Tee Shirt your not kidding anybody
I would Like to see u in ATC trying to get A/C across and Active Runway when you dont know the whole situation and its I m a Captain Cross me ASAP even if there is 1 at 4 miles
GET A LIFE MAN
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Mr Hudd,
"Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free."
Would suggest you allow more time then. Very unprofessional.
"Flights repeatedly depart late, causing knock-on delays. due to the hold-ups of crews trying to negotiate the thin and often-blocked passageways through Duty-Free."
Would suggest you allow more time then. Very unprofessional.
Join Date: May 2002
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GGrrrrr!
I'm not sure if this is a wind-up posting by someone called Roy Hudd, who by the way was also one of the most unfunniest comedians of recent times!
Pilots are reminded to stop at red stop bars because believe it or not, these PROFESSIONAL PILOTS often don't bother!! Yes I know it sounds ridiculous, that in front of you there is a row of 15 red lights at a CAT 1 or CAT 3 hold, but some PROFESSIONAL PILOTS cross them - Why?
Probably the same reason that "Follow the Greens to stand 210" means turn left onto a completely unlit piece of taxiway when the one next to it is all prettily lit up with green centerlight lighting. The way that "Give way to the aircraft ahead holding on the right side" is interpreted as "It doesn't matter if I hit it with my wing then?"
Sorry Mr Captain, but until that MINORITY of pilots get their act together, then I will continue to protect my ATC licence, other Captains and the travelling public, by spelling out what to do and how to do it.
As for hot and high on approach, just how many range checks do you need before you realise that you may not be able to make a below the glide-path join for the ILS. IF you want more then use the phrase " Could we have a couple of more miles please" and you will ALWAYS get it, as long as you don't ask when you are about to join the localiser at ten miles, otherwise you'll end up getting considerably more. Continous descent is always attempted where and when possible, from Min Stack level usually FL60 or 70, and with a range of 21+ miles should be no problem, but I've sat there and watched the descent from 60 to 5000' be achieved very well but still doing 250+ knots, having been asked some miles back to reduce to 210kts. When further descent is given, the height readout remains stubournly at 5000, only then decreases ever so slowly to 4900, 4800 etc., its painfull to watch at times!. We extend you when we think that this is not going to work, but then the next bloke has to be extended to accomadate you and so on, ending up at busy times to late holding notifictaion and believe me that is not in anybodys interest.
Anyway the Mod may well transfer this post to the ATC ranting section, but at least I hope you'll be a safer pilot in future.
I recommend a visit to any ATC unit to watch and experience for yourself what SOME PROFESSIONAL PILOTS are capable of (Or should it be INCAPABLE of?)
Anyway to keep this on the thread, so to speak, I hear that KLM are to introduce EMB195 onto the afternoon rotatation to Amsterdam during January 2009?
Last edited by Adola69; 7th Dec 2008 at 23:04.
I Have Control
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I've edited my previous post, to clarify certain points and modify others. The ATC chaps should note that I was referring to ATIS, which in MAN's case seems to cover SOME items that should be NOTAM'ed. WE don't have time to listen to all this repetitive stuff either on the ground or in the air...too much familiarity breeds contempt. And ATC have been asked consistently by my company to reduce the length of these ATIS broadcasts. They have agreed, and then done nothing. (Legal bods intervening?)
As regards the rest, I believe most folk posting here do not have to contend with the rubbish we face at work, nor the complaints from our passengers and our management when things do not run to time or to plan. And clearly no-one has a working knowledge here of FTL's.
I am sad that an honest, if critical, post should be simply a magnet for non-pilot people on a pro pilot forum. (ATC are welcome).
As regards the rest, I believe most folk posting here do not have to contend with the rubbish we face at work, nor the complaints from our passengers and our management when things do not run to time or to plan. And clearly no-one has a working knowledge here of FTL's.
I am sad that an honest, if critical, post should be simply a magnet for non-pilot people on a pro pilot forum. (ATC are welcome).
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Well the situation isn't going to change any time soon, so I suggest you change your attitude to it, before you go pop.
An airport is a machine of hundreds of parts all playing their part together, as best they can, and there'll always be good bits and not so good bits.
Sit back, close your eyes and think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN: a pretty girl (or guy?) smiled at you; the coffee was particularly nice; it didn't rain; you got away on time; you got straight onto stand etc. etc. There, it's not so bad. Feel better now?
An airport is a machine of hundreds of parts all playing their part together, as best they can, and there'll always be good bits and not so good bits.
Sit back, close your eyes and think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN: a pretty girl (or guy?) smiled at you; the coffee was particularly nice; it didn't rain; you got away on time; you got straight onto stand etc. etc. There, it's not so bad. Feel better now?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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think of five nice things that happened last time you were at MAN:
1. Flight arrived early
2. Up escalator in Pier "B" to immigration WORKING
3. IRIS system in T1 working
4. No queues even on a Friday teatime.
5. No jobsworth stopping pick up on Level 5
But it wasn't all good especially on the outbound - what about the disgraceful state of the ceilings in T1 departure lounge aka Shopping Arcade? I wondered whether this was a very bad effort at a high tech approach where all services are supposed to be visible, but recently heard a story that work had stopped because of cost cutting. Any truth in this?
Suzeman
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I`m not taking sides, but if you want a view of Manchester Airport, best ask my missus...she hates the place, the whole goddam, soul destroying, experience. She saves her particular venom for the so called `security staff` oh deep joy..she hasnt forgotten how one braindead, last year, spent an inordinate and inefficent, period of time paging through her detective novel, from front to back then the other way...It truely is reassurance for the gullible.
As a result, she now refuses to fly, from anywhere at anytime. ( I`ve even suggested Blackpool
) which as you can imagine has caused us some grief and some small revenue lost to aviation, which it can ill afford to lose at this time. So Thanks Manchester you really have Bs`ed me life up..cant even get to ogle the topless on a Spanish Beach anymore
Finally, as an experienced (very) shopper, she says its overpriced and crap in all 3 terminals. So there you have it
.she hates the place, the whole goddam, soul destroying, experience. She saves her particular venom for the so called `security staff` oh deep joy..she hasnt forgotten how one braindead, last year, spent an inordinate and inefficent, period of time paging through her detective novel, from front to back then the other way...It truely is reassurance for the gullible. As a result, she now refuses to fly, from anywhere at anytime. ( I`ve even suggested Blackpool
) which as you can imagine has caused us some grief and some small revenue lost to aviation, which it can ill afford to lose at this time. So Thanks Manchester you really have Bs`ed me life up..cant even get to ogle the topless on a Spanish Beach anymoreFinally, as an experienced (very) shopper, she says its overpriced and crap in all 3 terminals. So there you have it
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I can picture one member at least of the development team looking upwards and saying "can we save some money there?" on the basis that most people don't look up anyway. I always do, on principle, to see what sort of cheapskates I'm dealing with.
Trouble is, if they don't fit the ceiling, there's nowhere to hide all the spy cameras...
I bet MA is wishing it'd never bothered starting this latest retail development. First it was "put DF at the far end" of T1, then it was "put it in the middle", then it was "move it all around again and close everything landside". It just about disguises the fact that not a man-jack of them has any clue what they're doing.
5 things:
1 weather was nice today
2 I had a nice pub lunch
3 I didn't have to go near MAN today
4 I won't be doing tomorrow, either
5 or Wednesday.
There, I feel better now.
Trouble is, if they don't fit the ceiling, there's nowhere to hide all the spy cameras...
I bet MA is wishing it'd never bothered starting this latest retail development. First it was "put DF at the far end" of T1, then it was "put it in the middle", then it was "move it all around again and close everything landside". It just about disguises the fact that not a man-jack of them has any clue what they're doing.
5 things:
1 weather was nice today
2 I had a nice pub lunch
3 I didn't have to go near MAN today
4 I won't be doing tomorrow, either
5 or Wednesday.
There, I feel better now.
Thread Starter
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Having a swipe at Man management is fair game BUT to include Man ATC in the rant is totally pathetic......
I may be wrong but I cannot believe that a professional pilot would seriously criticise fellow professionals.
...more like Walter Mitty than Roy Hudd....!
I may be wrong but I cannot believe that a professional pilot would seriously criticise fellow professionals.
...more like Walter Mitty than Roy Hudd....!
I Have Control
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Nice one, Lapse. But how on earth did you find today's weather nice? Are you 4200 miles downroute? I spent much of my day off within 2 miles of MAN on a layover, and it was a horrible grey rainy day. TAF looks better for tomorrow.
Anyway, I hope MAN management take serious note of the above comments/feedback. Big improvements are desperately needed if the "business" is to survive. User-friendly improvements, that is. Towards workers and paying users (passengers) of the airport.
It is not a retail outlet. Nor a security employment scheme. It's an airport, one I have been familiar with since my days as a spotter, 35 years ago. Now, as a long-time pilot, I am saddened and often dis-heartened with the place. I blame management. Out.
Anyway, I hope MAN management take serious note of the above comments/feedback. Big improvements are desperately needed if the "business" is to survive. User-friendly improvements, that is. Towards workers and paying users (passengers) of the airport.
It is not a retail outlet. Nor a security employment scheme. It's an airport, one I have been familiar with since my days as a spotter, 35 years ago. Now, as a long-time pilot, I am saddened and often dis-heartened with the place. I blame management. Out.
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Roy Hudd
[I liked your "News Hudlines" BTW unlike "taking the" mickyman
BUT, ATC is run by NATS, [as you probably know] specifically NSL... Twr/Apc and NERL ... en Route.
NSL are contracted to provide Twr/Apc ATC for the "Airport".
Now, I used to work in the Tower as an ATSA, and a part of my duties was to do a manual ATIS/DATIS every 30 mins 24/7/365 [or one of my colleagues would stand in for me]. We had to add all sorts of gen, on a broadcast, [some of which you have highlighted]...but if there was a Met "Special"....we had to do the same thing again, and again. Now it is [semi] automated, it is slightly better, but there are still a lot of inputs that the ATSA has to do.
Stopbars, "Pilots" do cross RED ones... seen it happen.
I know that it's long winded, but it is for your safety
Getting off soapbox now
[I liked your "News Hudlines" BTW
unlike "taking the" mickyman
RoyHudd
You should'nt really let the Emu dictate your post.
MM
You should'nt really let the Emu dictate your post.
MM
NSL are contracted to provide Twr/Apc ATC for the "Airport".
Now, I used to work in the Tower as an ATSA, and a part of my duties was to do a manual ATIS/DATIS every 30 mins 24/7/365 [or one of my colleagues would stand in for me
]. We had to add all sorts of gen, on a broadcast, [some of which you have highlighted]...but if there was a Met "Special"....we had to do the same thing again, and again. Now it is [semi] automated, it is slightly better, but there are still a lot of inputs that the ATSA has to do.Stopbars, "Pilots" do cross RED ones...
seen it happen.I know that it's long winded, but it is for your safety
Getting off soapbox now