MANCHESTER - 7
Join Date: Jan 2004
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It's all well and good BA making the decision to centralise their operation at LHR, but when are they going to improve the connections, for example I have a business trip to Washington coming up, on the return leg I land at LHR at around 09:00 and don't have a connection back to MAN until arond 13:40.
I could drive back from LHR to MAN in a much shorter time than the 4.5 hours I am going to be forced to wander the T5 shopping mall.
Why don't you use a US carrier from MAN and then connect stateside instead? Would also mean that you arrive back at MAN after the overnight sector, rather than at LHR, and then have to wait around feeling knackered for hours for a domestic flight. It's a much nicer way to do this I find.
I could drive back from LHR to MAN in a much shorter time than the 4.5 hours I am going to be forced to wander the T5 shopping mall.
Why don't you use a US carrier from MAN and then connect stateside instead? Would also mean that you arrive back at MAN after the overnight sector, rather than at LHR, and then have to wait around feeling knackered for hours for a domestic flight. It's a much nicer way to do this I find.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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re the question of flights /slots.
Can some confirm how this works please.
Can some confirm how this works please.
I recommend visiting www.acl-uk.org and click on the reference library tag to get the regulations etc
There is a very useful summary of the process in the general section of the reference library entitled UK Slot Allocation Process Criteria
Suzeman
PS There will be a test of your understanding on Thursday......
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Viscount
Your question was
If you read the ACL document it DOES tell you how this works.
Para 2 of the data preparation and analysis section states (my emphasis in bold)
In September each year, what the Coordinator considers to be the Summer historic schedule for each airline is sent to them individually for checking (SHLs). This ensures any disagreements between the airline and the Coordinator regarding historic ‘rights’ can be resolved before the schedule submissions for the next Summer season in October. (Winter historics are established in April before schedule submissions in May).
The historic schedule is based upon the results of the slot monitoring and use-it or lose-it process undertaken by the Coordinator for that season. Clarity about the historic baseline is then established before the submissions are received from the airlines by the Coordinator.
This means that the airline and coordinator agree on which are their historic slots which they can retain from the previous equivalent scheduling season
Then the coordination process starts. Back to the ACL document
Preliminary Coordination
1. Airline schedule requests are submitted to Coordinators by midnight on the schedule submissions deadline set by IATA. This is in May for Winter season and in October for a Summer season. The aggregate airline submissions produce a picture of ‘Raw Demand’ (unconstrained demand) at the airport for the Coordinator to consider against the available supply of airport facilities (runways, terminals and stands).
2. Prior to any slot allocation decisions the schedule data which has been submitted by the airlines is generally sorted into one of four categories:
i) Historic Slots - there is some flexibility here as some changes are allowed in this category which do not materially effect coordination parameters e.g. flight number change. More significantly changes which may have capacity implications, e.g. substitution of a larger aircraft, timing adjustments etc. are put into the second category called Changed Historics.
So airlines do have to apply for slots for all flights they want to operate including those which have agreed historic rights.
ii) Changed Historics - these are flights for which the airline already holds an historic slot but which, for a variety of operational or commercial reasons, have been requested with a significant variation compared with the previous season e.g. different timing, larger aircraft etc.
iii) New Entrants - the new entrant group of schedules is further subdivided between new airlines to the airport and new services requested by incumbent airlines but still qualifying as new entrants as they hold less than 4 slots per day.
iv) New Incumbents - these are all new slot requests by existing operators not qualifying as new entrants.
3. Initially, all Historic Slots and Changed Historic slots are put into the new seasonal database.
4. Changed Historics which breach the scheduling limits are rescheduled as close to their required time as possible but within the scheduling limits.
5. The net result of this process is a fully coordinated airport within all the scheduling limits but based entirely on Historic and Changed Historic schedules. Approximately 40% of airlines historic schedules become Changed Historics each season. Schedule adjustments by the Coordinator to meet scheduling limits are minimised.
And just to clarify the priorities for slot allocation
3. The criteria used in the allocation decision process are summarised below and are the same for new entrants and incumbent operators.
a) Primary Criteria for slot allocation
• Historical precedence
• Changes to Historic Slots
• New Entrants
• Introduction of Year - Round services
So you can see from this that Historic slots and Changed Historics slots take precedence during the allocation process. This gives the airlines stability when putting their schedules together (although the EU were looking at changing this at one stage - not sure whether they gave up on it or not!!)
Hope this helps - test on Thursday cancelled
Suzeman
Your question was
Where an airline already has a slot is using it and intends to continue using it does it have to re apply before each summer/winter period to retain it?
Para 2 of the data preparation and analysis section states (my emphasis in bold)
In September each year, what the Coordinator considers to be the Summer historic schedule for each airline is sent to them individually for checking (SHLs). This ensures any disagreements between the airline and the Coordinator regarding historic ‘rights’ can be resolved before the schedule submissions for the next Summer season in October. (Winter historics are established in April before schedule submissions in May).
The historic schedule is based upon the results of the slot monitoring and use-it or lose-it process undertaken by the Coordinator for that season. Clarity about the historic baseline is then established before the submissions are received from the airlines by the Coordinator.
This means that the airline and coordinator agree on which are their historic slots which they can retain from the previous equivalent scheduling season
Then the coordination process starts. Back to the ACL document
Preliminary Coordination
1. Airline schedule requests are submitted to Coordinators by midnight on the schedule submissions deadline set by IATA. This is in May for Winter season and in October for a Summer season. The aggregate airline submissions produce a picture of ‘Raw Demand’ (unconstrained demand) at the airport for the Coordinator to consider against the available supply of airport facilities (runways, terminals and stands).
2. Prior to any slot allocation decisions the schedule data which has been submitted by the airlines is generally sorted into one of four categories:
i) Historic Slots - there is some flexibility here as some changes are allowed in this category which do not materially effect coordination parameters e.g. flight number change. More significantly changes which may have capacity implications, e.g. substitution of a larger aircraft, timing adjustments etc. are put into the second category called Changed Historics.
So airlines do have to apply for slots for all flights they want to operate including those which have agreed historic rights.
ii) Changed Historics - these are flights for which the airline already holds an historic slot but which, for a variety of operational or commercial reasons, have been requested with a significant variation compared with the previous season e.g. different timing, larger aircraft etc.
iii) New Entrants - the new entrant group of schedules is further subdivided between new airlines to the airport and new services requested by incumbent airlines but still qualifying as new entrants as they hold less than 4 slots per day.
iv) New Incumbents - these are all new slot requests by existing operators not qualifying as new entrants.
3. Initially, all Historic Slots and Changed Historic slots are put into the new seasonal database.
4. Changed Historics which breach the scheduling limits are rescheduled as close to their required time as possible but within the scheduling limits.
5. The net result of this process is a fully coordinated airport within all the scheduling limits but based entirely on Historic and Changed Historic schedules. Approximately 40% of airlines historic schedules become Changed Historics each season. Schedule adjustments by the Coordinator to meet scheduling limits are minimised.
And just to clarify the priorities for slot allocation
3. The criteria used in the allocation decision process are summarised below and are the same for new entrants and incumbent operators.
a) Primary Criteria for slot allocation
• Historical precedence
• Changes to Historic Slots
• New Entrants
• Introduction of Year - Round services
So you can see from this that Historic slots and Changed Historics slots take precedence during the allocation process. This gives the airlines stability when putting their schedules together (although the EU were looking at changing this at one stage - not sure whether they gave up on it or not!!)
Hope this helps - test on Thursday cancelled
Suzeman
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I read on the airliners.net forum that MS might start a service to CAI?
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mufc I think you will find skipness was not being serious.
However MS have tried the Cairo route before and if I am not mistaken Alexandria too, so its possible they may consider a return, However in the current climate it seems unlikely
However MS have tried the Cairo route before and if I am not mistaken Alexandria too, so its possible they may consider a return, However in the current climate it seems unlikely
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From the MAN website - look in the Archive in "About us"). 22% fewer domestic services...that ought to please the tree huggers! Freight should hoepfully see a good increase from February.
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Monarch seems to have quietly cut IBZ. No longer bookable but still on route map.
Pilot of the Airwaves
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Had the unfortunate experience to enter the UK via T1 last Monday.
Aircraft parked on gate 10, so,long walk to terminal. Up escalators not working and poor signage. After exiting baggage reclaim, entered an area of total chaos. Workmen allover the place, dust, dirt and noise and tried to find "Car Hire"....not a sign visible. Enquired at information desk to be told that all car hire desks have been relocated to 13th floor of car park and told "the lifts are over there" and directed to lifts "to even floors".
Asking again, as to where lifts to 13th floor were, was directed round a corner, through doors and to branch right to three lifts. The middle lift had a large "Out of Order sign" affixed to one door....but that was the only one of the three working!
Arrived on 13th floor to find that car hire is now in a wooden building, which the staff say is permanent and not very warm. 13th floor is the roof of the car park and open to the weather, with cars parked in the open. After picking the car up, locating the exit from the 13th floor was badly signed and involved driving through a chicane.
Yesterday, on my return journey,despite the new security experience, which is a vast improvement, after exiting that area, the lack of signs is clearly evident again and the journey through duty free to get to the restaurants and gates with minimal signs, was infuriating.
I have grave doubts as to whether the finished article will be any better.
The place is a bomb site with totally inadequate signage, which I will avoid as far as possible in the future.
I shall be using airlines based at T3 for my next flights.
Aircraft parked on gate 10, so,long walk to terminal. Up escalators not working and poor signage. After exiting baggage reclaim, entered an area of total chaos. Workmen allover the place, dust, dirt and noise and tried to find "Car Hire"....not a sign visible. Enquired at information desk to be told that all car hire desks have been relocated to 13th floor of car park and told "the lifts are over there" and directed to lifts "to even floors".
Asking again, as to where lifts to 13th floor were, was directed round a corner, through doors and to branch right to three lifts. The middle lift had a large "Out of Order sign" affixed to one door....but that was the only one of the three working!
Arrived on 13th floor to find that car hire is now in a wooden building, which the staff say is permanent and not very warm. 13th floor is the roof of the car park and open to the weather, with cars parked in the open. After picking the car up, locating the exit from the 13th floor was badly signed and involved driving through a chicane.
Yesterday, on my return journey,despite the new security experience, which is a vast improvement, after exiting that area, the lack of signs is clearly evident again and the journey through duty free to get to the restaurants and gates with minimal signs, was infuriating.
I have grave doubts as to whether the finished article will be any better.
The place is a bomb site with totally inadequate signage, which I will avoid as far as possible in the future.
I shall be using airlines based at T3 for my next flights.
I have not found the up escalator in Pier "B" to immigration working ever this year, so far.
You should know by now, MA don't do escaltors / walk ways or signs. Just accept that's the way it is at MAN.
Don't get me started on the compulsory Duty free shop visit in T1 departures.As for Duty free prices, go to Superdrug or Tescos- much cheaper.
With movements 15% down, maybe the shops will be boarded up before they even open ?thus allowing those of us who want to FLY not shop, get to the gates easier.
You should know by now, MA don't do escaltors / walk ways or signs. Just accept that's the way it is at MAN.
Don't get me started on the compulsory Duty free shop visit in T1 departures.As for Duty free prices, go to Superdrug or Tescos- much cheaper.
With movements 15% down, maybe the shops will be boarded up before they even open ?thus allowing those of us who want to FLY not shop, get to the gates easier.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I absolutely hate T1, every time I've had to use it the experience has been unpleasent, a dark and claustrophobic rabbit warren. I try and use airlines from T2 as the building at least has a bit of space inside.