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Old 12th Jun 2009, 11:50
  #601 (permalink)  
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Talking about 777s at LBA, if anyone remembers the GE90 rollback issue some years ago EK and others were using the aircraft fitted with those engines at full takeoff thrust for a short period.

Forget LBA, a 773ER could have used London City. They were leaping in the air when not using the systems to derate them based on payload and available concrete.

PIA have some bog standard 777s and also the 772LR with the big GE90s so if their scheduling permits then a 772LR would be the ideal plane for the job. Plenty of thrust and reverser action available to compensate for LBA's short runway. The aircraft uses runway if it's available, but when it isn't then they have considerable flexibility to crank up the power. These two frames (BGY and BGZ) regularly turn up on less taxing duty such as the PK701/2 at MAN so slotting them into LBA may be possible if the pavement loading isn't a problem.
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Old 12th Jun 2009, 16:12
  #602 (permalink)  
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Forget LBA, a 773ER could have used London City. They were leaping in the air when not using the systems to derate them based on payload and available concrete

A point I made weeks ago flying about half full range of fuel to ISB.
The take off distance for these variants is less than the 733.
I assume runway strength is the same as in the past so 744's no problem.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 14:17
  #603 (permalink)  
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Runway strength is certainly not an issue the runway is concrete PCN 61R/A/W/T whilst the loading isn't the highest it is Rigid (R) and its sub sructure is the strongest (A) also it's rated for maximum tyre pressure allowed (W) and has been evaluated by Technical evaluation (T).As a comparison Birmingham is PCN 63 F/B/W/T Manston is PCN 53 F/C/W/T. If I remember correctly before the 747 could operate the then Runway 28 was dug up (an asphalt runway) to strengthen the pavement to allow the 747 to taxy through Bravo to the apron.
The only problem I can see is where they would park the beast without disrupting other larger ac movements. If it used one of the airbridges then it would probably preclude ac taxying behind it.
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Old 13th Jun 2009, 19:27
  #604 (permalink)  
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the runway is concrete PCN 61R/A/W/T
That bearing strength is the old data....the current data is as follows;

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Old 13th Jun 2009, 19:57
  #605 (permalink)  
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Granted it is from an old document, as were the Birmingham and Manston figures, could you please explain how the strength and sub surface has changed or is this a reassessment of the requirements?

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Old 14th Jun 2009, 15:53
  #606 (permalink)  
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could you please explain how the strength and sub surface has changed
The data quoted is from the NATS ais aerodrome info website so it is current. I'm not an expert however and cannot account for the change but it seems to me that the runway is less capable than before.

The PCN number is assessed as 51, ie it is lower than it used to be so is less capable of sustaining aircraft of higher weights.

The Sub-grade strength category: Has changed from A where

A High strength: characterized by K150 Nm/m3 1 and respresenting all K values above 120 Nm/m3 for rigid pavements, and by CBR2 = 15 and representing all CBR values above 13 for flexible pavements.

to B where

B Medium strength: characterized by K80 Nm/m3 and representing a range in K of 60 to 120 Nm/m3 for rigid pavements, and by CBR = 10 and representing a range in CBR of 8 to 13 for flexible pavements.

A look at the Boeing data for a B777-200LR;

MaxTOW of 348,358Kg on a B runway, a PCN of 82 is needed.
MinTOW of 145,150Kg on a B runway, a PCN of 23 is needed.

So as long as the aircraft isn't anywhere near MaxTOW then the runway is sufficient! [Edit - a further look at the Boeing data reveals that with a PCN of 51 Rigid B runway - the MaxTOW avail on a 777-20LR is approx 290,000Kg]
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Old 14th Jun 2009, 17:22
  #607 (permalink)  
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It does seem a little unusual how the runway can become less strong than before.....the only reason i could see a downgrade in surface condition and strenght is if the runway is heavily cracked or subsiding, the runway surface wont have warn down that far (will it) it will be a superior type of concrete than they use on the roads......Me thinks this is too confusing for me!!!!
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Old 14th Jun 2009, 17:31
  #608 (permalink)  
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Those repairs they did over winter weren't done by a guy with a lorry offering to put down a bit of tarmac for fifty quid, were they?
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Old 14th Jun 2009, 17:46
  #609 (permalink)  
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Backtrack32 - see previous posts. Aircraft required an engine change and declared serviceable this afternoon. Will be positioning empty back to Plymouth this eve. LBIA Just for info its a Dash-8-311 and not a Q200 - none of the WOW fleet are Q series as they don't have the cabin noise supression system fitted not that that made any difference anyway.

Old 29th Jun 2009, 23:14
  #610 (permalink)  
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Flybe Gatwick

Anybody have any idea how popular todays inagural services were?.What were the pax numbers?.

Do you think this route will be a success?.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 00:27
  #611 (permalink)  
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30 pax on evening flight.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 07:31
  #612 (permalink)  
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On a slight tangent, I think a 'modest' and well timed service to the capital would still be viable.

National Express have been making a phenomenal pigs ear of the train service since they took over from GNER (who rather hastily gave the franchise up, remember - and then regretted it massively).

I used to think these inter-city train operators were all much of a muchness, but National Express are truly, truly awful. Terrible service, terrible cleanliness, terrible catering - I see so, so many pissed off people on the London trains from Leeds these days. It really is a horrible experience, and I'm not particularly fussy. The decline since GNER gave up the franchise has been striking.

But then I hear National Express have already been stripped of the franchise and it looks likely that Virgin will get it. Think what you like about Virgin companies, but Virgin Trains have got to be better than the current shower of shit. I've been on Virgin Trains a few times and it's always been fine - far better than National Express.

I know my lady's colleagues at the DoH (and the DWP for that matter) would gladly utilise a London air service if it was cost effective enough for them to justify. The onward European connections were especially handy for them prior to the budget cutbacks which prevented them from using the plane in most cases.

National Express (from Leeds)
Arrive 20 minutes before train and grab coffee in pleasant First Class Lounge.
Join clean train, take seat with water, biscuits and real cup ready for coffee.
Switch on laptop and treat train as office.
Decide slightly hungry and walk to restaurant where pleasant food served by pleasant people (albeit expensive)
Realise by Stevenage have done more work on train than would have done in office decide to pick up paper and catch up on world affairs.
Pull into Kings Cross, leave train refreshed.
Possible drawbacks: No seat (I always reserve as book far enough in advance to get cheaper tickets) or possible delays (IMHO much less now with NXEC than under GNER - maybe due to their very fair Delay Repay policy)
Fast forward a few months...

BBC NEWS | Business | National Express loses rail route

Despite what MMENCLLBAMAN said there back in Feb, it's been patently obvious to anyone who uses the east coast mainline service regularly that National Express have been killing it slowly. They gave up on it months ago. It's now a shocking customer experience, and they're actually managing to lose passenger numbers at a time when pretty much every other mainline train operator grows them.

The down-side of all of this for Flybe is that a decent train operator will get hold of the franchise now, who'll run it properly and so kill off the LBA - London air connection forever.

Bring back GNER.

OK, so Virgin may not get the franchise (or they may), but anyone will be better than National Express. Anyone thinking the National Express service was anything like acceptable needs to calibrate their expectations, because they're way off the mark.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 07:37
  #613 (permalink)  
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From the news today it's welcome back British Railways!
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 10:46
  #614 (permalink)  
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Bring back GNER ? it's already done ! Government Nationalised East coast Railway
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Old 2nd Jul 2009, 09:30
  #615 (permalink)  
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Flybe Fills the National Express Void
01 July 2009
Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, today reported record sales on its new air service from Yorkshire to London.
In direct contrast to the chaos on the rail network, which today saw the government take the East Coast rail service into public ownership, Flybe sold more tickets on June 30th than on any other day since the route was announced in April.
Commenting on the strong sales, Mike Rutter, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer said:
“The demand for tickets on Flybe’s new service from Leeds Bradford to London Gatwick has exceeded all expectations. Flybe came to the rescue when BMI walked away from their Leeds to London air service and now it seems we are coming to the rescue of more and more Yorkshire travellers who have lost faith with the railways. Transport links for the UK’s regional economies are crucial and Flybe is proud to provide convenient, affordable and reliable services for Yorkshire and London alike.”
Seems like bookings are well up for Flybe as people again lose confidence in the shambles that are the overpriced national railways!!
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Old 13th Jul 2009, 13:14
  #616 (permalink)  
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Rumour has it that PIA are to start B-777 ops back end of October, the turning D at 32 is the same as islamabad so no problems there
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Old 13th Jul 2009, 15:06
  #617 (permalink)  
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November needs work on it, and afaik they dont know which stand its going on yet!
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Old 13th Jul 2009, 21:07
  #618 (permalink)  
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PIA 777

Rumour has it that PIA are to start B-777 ops back end of October, the turning D at 32 is the same as islamabad so no problems there
On the back of that their is supposedly a gentlemen coming from PIA OPS from ISB coming to inspect the RW32 turning "D" to approve it, apparentley the only change if required will be a few more lines!
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Old 13th Jul 2009, 21:19
  #619 (permalink)  
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PIA 777

If this turns out to be true,is it likely to be 777 200 series,or 777 300 series?

Just noticed from lbia website,last nights flight arrived 1 1/2 hours late but departed 6 hours late at 2AM.What was the reason for this lengthy delay anybody?.

Last edited by lbalad; 14th Jul 2009 at 05:39. Reason: add further question
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Old 21st Jul 2009, 19:47
  #620 (permalink)  
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Leeds Bradford expansion plans.........

I notice yesterday's Yorkshire Evening Post reports that the expansion plans at LBA are set to be given the go-ahead at a meeting pencilled in for Thursday of this week.

Thoughts (article below) ?

PLANS for a £28m terminal expansion at Leeds Bradford International Airport are expected to be given the green light.

Leeds City Council's planning committee was set to rubber-stamp the project – expected to generate 3,000 jobs – in April but deferred its decision calling for better transport links.

The authority's chief planning officer has now compiled a new report addressing its queries and is recommending the panel "defer and delegate approval" at Leeds Civic Hall on Thursday, subject to a raft of conditions to combat congestion and improve public transport.

They include the setting up of a transport steering group, including Leeds, Bradford, and York City Councils, Metro and Leeds Bradford International Airport to monitor the impact of the changes on highways and public transport.

And more than £1m will be paid out to improve bus services.

The report concludes: "There has been considerable discussion and negotiation with the airport since April and significant progress has been made."

It adds: "The airport has also committed to longer term initiatives including making their land available for tram train."

It said the steering group would review passenger numbers and traffic levels. Cash provided through the planning conditions would mean action could be taken to minimise impact on the roads.

The application is for a two-storey extension, providing a new entrance and improved shops, passenger screening zone and immigration facilities.

Airport owners Bridgepoint Capital say passengers travelling through the existing terminal building are beset with delays and congestion.

Although the council has received an "unprecedented" number of representations, for and against the project, no-one is objecting to the building itself.

Concerns stem from the expected growth in passenger and car numbers and the impact on surrounding routes.

The report to councillors said its transport strategy was drawn up using a worst-case scenario of traffic around the airport growing to five million passengers per year by 2012. Levels were unlikely to reach that point as they had remained constant for the past three years.

The expansion of the terminal building is at the heart of a £70m masterplan designed to improve facilities and increase passenger numbers to 5.1 million a year by 2016.

Preliminary works costing £2m have already been carried out.

Tony Hallwood, pictured, commercial and aviation development director at LBIA, said: "Our aim is to offer customers modern facilities which allow them quick and easy access to and from the terminal.

"We are determined to continue to improve the quality of services we provide to our passengers and our on-going investment will deliver a significant enhancement to terminal facilities."

Councillors will visit the airport on Thursday before the application is once again put before them.
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