LEEDS 5

[Strelnikov]

harrogate

You've clearly had a bad experience on NXEC and you've also clearly never used Megabus. "And I really mean that" .

I travel to Newcastle and Leeds on business from London at least once a fortnight to each destination and, whilst my preference is flying (as I love flying) I'm afraid flying does not touch rail to either destination.

Heathrow is a miserable place to travel to and from.
Flights are less punctual than rail (yet air users seem to just accept this - why?)
Rail does not have the ludicrous security of flying (the queue at Newcastle airport is particularly tedious).
Flying does not have Wi-Fi.
Rail does not have the "hidden surcharges" that dog flight tickets.
You can use the phone on the train.
You can have a proper meal at a table on a train.
Rail of course is also more environmentally sound but thats a red rag to a bull on PPRUNE.
Etc....

I love flying but I have to dispense with the rose tinted spectacles - Yeadon London via Heathrow does not come close to rail for business.

Now Docklands and Gatwick might be interesting though.

[harrogate]

I've used the Megabus a couple of times, out of neccessity. It's not so bad. I genuinely never have a good trip with National Express, on the other hand.

Heathrow is not what I was referring to. I was on about London. A well-priced feeder service from Leeds into Gatwick would tap into the ongoing low cost network from there (i.e. Easyjet).

Going by train onwards from KX to any of the airports in London for connecting flights is not particularly convenient, especially in peak periods and with a bit of gear to lug around. A well timed, well priced and well run air service down to Gatwick would make up lost ground over the train by virtue of the capacity to cut out London altogether.

[MMENCLLBAMAN]

National Express

First of all - I do not work for National Express East Coast.

Living in York and having to visit London at least twice a week, the train has always been my first choice for regularlity and convinience (i.e. not having to drive across to LBA) however until recently my ex lived 10 minutes drive from the airport so over the last two years I trialed the bmi service - these are my observations

bmi
Check in 1 hour prior to flight
Fight my way through the Jet2 Palma and Alicante crowds drinking beer at silly times of the morning.
Board aircraft 5 minutes prior to scheduled departure time whilst bags still being loaded and aircraft still being refulled.
Depart LBA at least 10 minutes behind schedule.
Enjoy a complimentary 'meal deal' on presentation of my diamond club card consisting of an unedible sandwich and cup of tea chucked at me due to short flight time.
Hold over London
Land at LHR on time, arrive at gate 40 minutes late and on a couple of occasions on an international gate with bus requried to domestic.
Wait 30 minutes + for luggage
Endure StalagHeathrow to tube
Sit on Piccadilly Line for an hour (if lucky) whilst either in someones armpit or two inches from someone crotch
Arrive at Kings Cross very off.

National Express (from Leeds)
Arrive 20 minutes before train and grab coffee in pleasant First Class Lounge.
Join clean train, take seat with water, biscuits and real cup ready for coffee.
Switch on laptop and treat train as office.
Decide slightly hungry and walk to restaurant where pleasant food served by pleasant people (albeit expensive)
Realise by Stevenage have done more work on train than would have done in office decide to pick up paper and catch up on world affairs.
Pull into Kings Cross, leave train refreshed.
Possible drawbacks: No seat (I always reserve as book far enough in advance to get cheaper tickets) or possible delays (IMHO much less now with NXEC than under GNER - maybe due to their very fair Delay Repay policy)

Megabus
Do I even need to go there!

I am also sad to see LBA loose is historic link to the capital and it will no doubt be a hinderance to me in the future but surely anyone who claimed that it was good for commuters has to be living in the wrong decade.

As for LGW, I hope it happens for the sake of the area but I for one will be sticking to the train.

Edited - I forgot to mention you do not have to queue to have yourself and all of your belongings roughly searched on the train

[freightdoggy dog]

Mooncrest...sorry just cant see it getting up PMs nose.

Regional connections from the midlands/north to LHR/LGW/STN do not stand up anymore when trying to operate against the rail companies. Whom as stated before, have the benefits of no security q's no moronic security jobsworths, flexible fares, laptop time , real food etc.

[brian_dromey]

I agree, I've flown with bmi to LHR and last week I took the train to London. It was a very pleasant, quick and comfortable journey, I can't complain at all. for p2p journeys the train is a no brianer, for onwards connections it's better to fly. That having been said its pretty easy to get to MAN from the Leeds area anyway, bus, train or car.

It is a sad thing that it has come to this, however.

Brian.

[Channex101]

MMENCLLBAMAN - Never heard of the Heathow Xpress then, bit more pricey but only 15 mins in someones arm pit instead of over an hour!!

I fly for BA out of LHR but commute from NCL and i have had the pleasure of both the train and air... for me personally air wins everytime (not just becuase its BA, i have ued Flybe and BMI in the past too for LGW)

I have a rail card for National Express as i used them a fair bit before xmas and i have to say, clean train? hhmm find that hard to believe... free WIFI? when it works!!!
Able to use your mobile phone? please!! thats why i choose to fly, to not sit next to someone who thinks they are on trigger happy TV and insists on having their conversation at the top of their voice for 3hrs!!!
I know all public loo's are vile, airlines as well, but ive never seen anything like what national express have, i wish they could get an extra few mins stop at a station half way and at least give the loo's a wipe over!!
Personally i find the train a faff on, if im doing a day return to london i dont wanna be spending 6hours travelling

[Strelnikov]

Heathrow Express.

£32 standard return for a 15 minute train journey that doesn't take you to London.

It takes you to Paddington that remains a further taxi and tube journey to where you actually want to go to. If you're working in the City itself then you are still 30+ minutes away.

[galaxy68]

Strelnikov, the reference is in the "history" section

A location east of Leeds would be fine for those in Leeds, but not Bradford, such a location would then boost Manchesters attraction. At least its only 7/8 miles from each centre. The proposal for the A1 link road to be west of Leeds would have been great for the airport, but this route was always going to be a non starter.
When it was realised that the 5400 foot runway was inadequate, it was actually Leeds Council that continually and vigourously opposed expansion, but Bradford never did, they always supported it.
What they could have done at minimal cost, was to put barriers and traffic lights on the Harrogate Rd. In effect this would have given an extension, within a matter of months and not requiring lengthy planning permission.

[LBAlady]

bmi regional

Please forgive me if this is old news or just a rumour but was told that bmi regional is also to close its base down at LBA?

Obviously I am aware of mainline pulling the plug on the LHR but not regional backing out as well.

[Baltasound]

Just to clarify a couple of points regarding the ECML - one NatEx is not being stripped of the franchise. It is one of those in dire straits but then most are.
And two GNER did not give up on the route "easily". It could not pay the premium required by DaFT and the parent company went into administration.

There will be more trains into KX from Yorkshire come December - Grand Central out of Teeside, more into London ex Leeds with some Bradford/ Halifax into the pot and rumours that the former Cleethorpes service will be resurrected.

So that may have a fairly serious affect on short hauls into either LGW/LHR. City maybe different tho...

[rpmac]

For those wanting central London the train is generally the best from Leeds, York, Bradford etc, but what the business community wants is connections to a London hub for international flights. I think BA would do fairly well with a 3 x daily Airbus 319 into T5. BMi Mainline and Regional have probably just about ruined their reputation with Yorkshire travellers by reducing services, starting some them stopping (Cork, LCY, Copenhagen, Lille (!) . How is it that Jet2 have overtaken BMi at Leeds in just a few years and have services to Paris, Amsterdam, Belfast, Barcelona, Nice --- routes that BMi should have started years ago.
BA or Flybe should now delevop a London route, it will take time and Yorkshire business travellers should get behind it and support it. Probably Flybe should also consider Edinburgh, Glasgow, Frankfurt before BMi finally leave the Yorkshire scene. Others would be open for Copenhagen, Brussels etc etc. And then there is EasyJet.... well that is another potential story.

[Piers6]

BMI to Heathrow

Another source of passenger revenue that BMI have lost is that of the business users who work for the many multinationals whose Uk bases are in the Heathrow , Slough, Windsor,Staines areas. It was great to be able to take the early flight and be at the office before the locals got there. This also saved a nights accomodation cost and therefore became cost effective. The rail alternative is not brilliant especially with baggage. The underground between Kings Cross and Paddington is a real drag.

[pwalhx]

Piers6 is spot on, I used the BD service to get to our Heathrow office, now I will drive to Manchester and fly from there to Heathrow.

[Piers6]

BMI to Heathrow

What i failed to say which I meant to was that by doing away with the early flight they effectively sabotaged the route. The current first flight gets in to Heathrow too late for a full business day.

[A300BOY]

A300boy

As far as I am concerned Heathrow is now not on my travelling map for onward connections. If I do not have easy access to it why would I support a third runway being built ? Spend the money on the Regional Airports for a change. So its got to be
1. Amsterdam although the F100 is not even cat 2 at Leeds so the service is at best unreliable.
2. Manchester for my long haul needs, maybe but not so many options.
3. The new Frankfurt when they announce it (if it happens) which is a good idea when you have just shut down the Heathrow link !!!!

[Strelnikov]

I can't argue with your logic pwalhx. If you're office is at Heathrow then a direct flight to Heathrow is probably the best way of getting there .

Now how about the other 15 million in the south east who don't work at the Heathrow office.......?

[bobleeds]

Strelnikov,

Piers6 was referring to Companies which have located their UK Corporate Headquarters in the Corridor running out Southwest from Heathrow such as Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke etc. with a view to good connections with Europe and beyond (but also originally with the important business centres of the UK). These locations are far easier to reach from Leeds using the LHR flight than via Kings Cross then accross London to Waterloo or Victoria and onwards. My own company has it's UK Head Office in Guildford with Training Facilities in Horsley Surrey. When I've used the "old" BM early morning departure from Leeds I could be working at a desk in Guildford by 0830, and also had quite a decent little breakfast en-route.

Bmi have been working away to trash the LBA-LHR route for years now. It would be great if BA could be persuaded to return, but highly unlikely. Dept of Transport should have stepped in to ring-fence slots for regional services.

[Strelnikov]

bobleeds - what has Piers6 post got to do with me? I didn't comment on it.

Since you did though I'd expand my observation regarding the person who worked in the Heathrow office and not surprisingly thought a Heathrow service was a good idea. Heathrow is good only for domestic journeys to west London and the immediate hinterland. Elsewhere it's the option for only those who enjoy purgatory.

I think many of you are in a fantasy land that any operator will step in. BMI withdrew to use the slots on something more valuable.

Which current slot owning operator is going to swap which less valuable route to serve Leeds?

[A300BOY]

A300boy

I wonder why slots could not have been allocated as International or Domestic ? Maybe then the regional feeder services would have been more attractive to operate and not make the slots more valuable than the services.

[HOODED]

A300Boy, AMS on KLM F100 not being CAT2 and therefore being unreliable!

Why not use the JET2 to AMS with a CAT3 capable 737??

How often are the RVRs less than 200m?