Rotors

'Sorry mate, I'm not rocket Rod, and if you knew my background, you would know that the name makes me want to vomit'

Sunfish, that was a pity; you spoiled your previous erudite post with this.

UnderneathTheRadar

Sorry Rotors, do some research on Sunfish and you'll find a proud and enjoyable former life at Ansett Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett) and then research Rod's involvement in that sad tale......

UTR

Fox One

Some really interesting posts on here, a situation not dissimilar to the present BA debacle in terms of the position some employee groups are taking. I wonder if the result wil be the same?

and:

Says it better than I could - I think the BA pilots are "living in interesting times!"

Human Factor

I don't recall any of us at BA talking about deserving to be paid more. What I object to is being forever told that I deserve to be paid less.

It all comes back to a management whose reward is based partially upon a "margin" and partially upon the success of their own department. This results in problems being shipped sideways with no-one prepared to come up with a solution and risk their departmental bonus. This leaves the "margin", which can then only be met by cost-cutting and who are the easiest targets? Those who take it without a fight.

BA needs fundamental changes to ensure that those in management take the long-term view rather than the current short-termist silo mentality. This will require bold leadership (and a chairman who knows something about airlines who is prepared to recruit a CEO with vision) from someone who is prepared to be ruthless with the middle tiers and the wastage, not scrimp and scrape pitiful savings from the frontline where the (remaining) customers will suffer and where there is nothing left to give.

Hotel Mode

Same post 2 different threads. and only 17 postings in total.

Must be dull in Uzbekistan.

Basil

This makes a few delayed and cancelled departures pale into insignificance.

. . and then there's the United B777 problem.

Sunfish

Basil:

Not so. What BA/BAA T5, and United, and AA, and the FAA troubles at Southwest, and the Oasis bankruptcy, the Ryanair share price, the pilot shortage, and other such incidents are telling the world in my opinion, is that management everywhere has cut too deep and is selling their product too cheap.

I am merely a private pilot, but I have no illusions about the workload, decision making skills and responsibility required by heavy jet pilots, and the constant management mantra about labour costs is pure bolleaux.

Raise prices. Add service. Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. To do otherwise, relying on marginal costing, has always been a recipe for disaster in any and every industry it's been tried.

The Ryanair model of giving the flight away and charging for food and water etc. is not sustainable, and never has been.

swedish

Never heard so much rubbish...

Raise prices- do you have any idea how price sensitive the market is? I travel C class LH every week and BA is the most expensive so I don't use them. LH, AF, KLM are lower so thats what I use.

Add service - BA already has the highest service levels in Europe

Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. - can tell your not in yield management. These pay most of the wage bill. yes revenue generation is hiher in Y class but they are the biggest cash flow.

The Ryanair model of giving the flight away and charging for food and water etc. is not sustainable, and never has been - who else has tried it to show it is not sustainable?

Utter, utter rubbish. Your customers are those who pay a market price for the goods, no one else, don't downgrade them to a level they are not at.

markrl

“Raise prices. Add service. Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. To do otherwise, relying on marginal costing, has always been a recipe for disaster in any and every industry it's been tried”.

Unfortunately none of this is ever going to happen you can’t put the clock back 40 years to 1968, the world has changed and moved on since the golden age of BOAC. Cheap flights with little service are here because there is a market demand. Even this tax greedy Government has so far shied away from hitting the airlines with fuel duty for fear of the political consequences, however much they would like to (yep nowadays even Chav’s have the vote). The alternative would be that flying was only for the rich and those on business. The result would inevitably be a much smaller airline industry. I don’t think many on this forum would be calling for that somehow. I doubt even Willie Walsh and Co would be dumb enough to take the commercial suicide route of only high prices. I’m not advocating everyone follow the Ryan Air model but neither do I believe the BOAC one would work in 2008. Times have changed.

Basil

Haven't they got away with just that with motor fuel duty, airport taxes and, at local level, London congestion charging?
All of which hit those with least income. Not very Socialist.

Capvermell

I just received the below email from the BA Exec Club. It seems its now so bad that all even their marketing people can do is to grovel apologetically.

I would have thought that a smarter move would have been not to send a marketing email at all at this time than to send out one admitting and reminding all their regular passengers that they are now a total laughing stock.

However Wee Willie must obviously be feeling mighty grateful to the FAA, American Airlines and currently unfolding events across the pond for allowing his own monumental cock up to now become somewhat less noticeable on a world wide scale.

Here is the BA newsletter speel. A shame though that Wee Willy would not put his own name to it:-

Also note that their great prices to the USA and Canada offer ends on the very day they have sent me the email.

Capvermell

This is the latest from their website this evening:-

www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=3192

Sadly it appears that some people never learn from their past mistakes.

Railgun

Galley FM has it Worldwide will now have a phased move accross to T5 after a crisis meeting between BAA, BA and other airlines......

Capvermell

And one would hope that this phased move will only even begin after they reach a stage where there are zero problems with operating the current routes from T5.

If they had moved across on a phased basis from the outset (instead of dumping all BA T1 flights at T5 in one day) then most of the problems experienced could have been satisfactorily addressed and resolved without running so wildly out of control.

stormin norman

Low cost model ?

It is with regret that Oasis Hong Kong Airlines announces that the airline has applied to the Hong Kong Court to appoint a provisional liquidator on 9 April 2008. The Court has appointed Edward Middleton and Patrick Cowley of KPMG as the provisional liquidators, and they have assumed control of the airline with effect from 1400h the same day Hong Kong time.

Our flight operations have been cancelled until further notice. The Provisional Liquidators are liaising with other airlines in order to help customers make alternate travel arrangements as quickly as possible.

Sunfish

As for the "low cost model " and my post about management as a group, cutting too deep on a worldwide basis. Watch what happens when aircraft start leaving big smoking holes on a regular basis. Prices will then rise...and the public will be glad they did.

Capvermell

Easyjet and Ryanair have now been operating for 10 years and so far this has not happened. And this despite them operating short haul routes where there are for more takeoffs and landings per mile travelled and hence more likelihood of problems.

Perhaps they have just been lucky or perhaps, unlike AdamAir, they realise which costs you cannot afford to cut beyond a certain point.

woodpecker

To add just a little humour to the situation, the comment from the Captain three and a half hours into a delay to Brussels due baggage problems at T5 was priceless...

"Same old circus, just a different tent"

markrl

Would Alitalia be classed as one of these cheapo budget airlines? Looks like their on skid row just like Oasis. Swissair were of course another famous no frills airline that hit the rocks in 2001. It can happen to any airline business from national carrier to small budget start up.

I must admit however personally I would rather have gonorrhoea then fly with Ryan Air but thats personal choice. I suspect Micheal O' Leary will be around in the airline business long after Wilie Walsh has gone.

raveng

To BAEng and to everyone who is posting using the group id 'BAEng', instead of spending every waking minute, in a crew 'restroom', perhaps you'd think about fixing an aircraft or two, every now and then, you know, like your supposed to be!! Oh dear, hope I haven't offended anyone!!!

You have some serious issues with a company you so obviously dispise. If it's that bad LEAVE, I mean if it really is that bad, why do you stay???