FlyBE - 5
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Red Wings,
BALPA represented serving Captains and FOs in BACON at the time of the merger. The pay of Captains and FOs was ring-fenced, not just Captains.
Students that were studying to become pilots at the time of the merger, ie they were not line pilots but hoped to be one day, did not receive pay. It was therefore impossible to ring-fence their pay. Unless of course you are suggesting that future expectations of pay should be protected for students/wannabes/anyone else that might want to join a company one day. How can pay that is not yet earned be ring-fenced?
BALPA represented serving Captains and FOs in BACON at the time of the merger. The pay of Captains and FOs was ring-fenced, not just Captains.
Students that were studying to become pilots at the time of the merger, ie they were not line pilots but hoped to be one day, did not receive pay. It was therefore impossible to ring-fence their pay. Unless of course you are suggesting that future expectations of pay should be protected for students/wannabes/anyone else that might want to join a company one day. How can pay that is not yet earned be ring-fenced?
Join Date: May 2002
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Flyingbug
Sorry I think you have missed the point if you are involved in the company look at the year2/3 ssp 145 scale then the Q4 year 3/4 or even 8 figure you will see my point, likewise year 3/4 145 FO to year 3/4 145 captain and compare that to the year zero Q4 captain point! Now you will understand what I mean. Of course the big difference is the flybe year in rank instead of service system and if you are near the edge of those bands and a contractor is taking your place you stand to miss out on large sums! Hence the not so happy view of contractors as most of the fleet is on the edge of these bands where even a month could result in significant differences for a number of years. If you want more details PM me as I dont wish to give out any more detail in a public forum!
Sorry I think you have missed the point if you are involved in the company look at the year2/3 ssp 145 scale then the Q4 year 3/4 or even 8 figure you will see my point, likewise year 3/4 145 FO to year 3/4 145 captain and compare that to the year zero Q4 captain point! Now you will understand what I mean. Of course the big difference is the flybe year in rank instead of service system and if you are near the edge of those bands and a contractor is taking your place you stand to miss out on large sums! Hence the not so happy view of contractors as most of the fleet is on the edge of these bands where even a month could result in significant differences for a number of years. If you want more details PM me as I dont wish to give out any more detail in a public forum!
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RBS and the other majors that use these flts are pissed off (being polite) at the constant delays and cancellations.
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 13th Jun 2008 at 10:44. Reason: punctuation
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Noticed today that Flybe have revamped the on line timetable. In the drop down box, destinations from BHD include GWY, LPL and NWI all of which were served from BHD but since dropped, most recently GWY. Do they intend to reinstate these or is this just a glitch.
More interesting is that the drop down also shows AMS as a destination - if this is this correct, do they propose a direct link or via BHX or MAN perhaps?
More interesting is that the drop down also shows AMS as a destination - if this is this correct, do they propose a direct link or via BHX or MAN perhaps?
Join Date: Aug 2005
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ALLMCC
Don't they link AMS with Southampton and Exeter? Another operator from MAN would be good since BA Regional, BA Manchester, BA Citiexpress, BA Connect and Jet2 dropped it, but BHX already has KL and WW.
Don't they link AMS with Southampton and Exeter? Another operator from MAN would be good since BA Regional, BA Manchester, BA Citiexpress, BA Connect and Jet2 dropped it, but BHX already has KL and WW.
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"And we aren't talking about Flybe yet.......Looking round the country the number of "delays" and cancellations and diversions to other airfields by BEE makes me wonder about their ability to improve the situation for already pee ed off business travellers."
Clearly this member has little factual knowledge of Flybe's operations as a whole. Flybe operate over 500 daily services now that the summer is kicking in and actually there are few delays and diversions - yes they happen and for a regular traveler it may appear frequent but its actually not. I have not made it secret that I am an employee of Flybe but I can speak for myself. Sure there are areas which are dreadful, but I think its time that this nonsense about continual operational problems ends...its not factual and is irritating to those that work hard making sure there are as few problems as possible.
The new online timetable is still undergoing testing so it may show routes not operated - its part of the testing but will soon be sorted. The booking process has also been slightly changed along with a few other small things that probably won't be noticed by the average website user.
Yes Flybe operate from AMS to Exeter and Southampton.
"Clearly this member has little factual knowledge of Flybe's operations as a whole. Flybe operate over 500 daily services now that the summer is kicking in and actually there are few delays and diversions - yes they happen and for a regular traveler it may appear frequent but its actually not. I have not made it secret that I am an employee of Flybe but I can speak for myself. Sure there are areas which are dreadful, but I think its time that this nonsense about continual operational problems ends...its not factual and is irritating to those that work hard making sure there are as few problems as possible.
The new online timetable is still undergoing testing so it may show routes not operated - its part of the testing but will soon be sorted. The booking process has also been slightly changed along with a few other small things that probably won't be noticed by the average website user.
Yes Flybe operate from AMS to Exeter and Southampton.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Is it just me, or is the timetable section on the Flybe website a big backwards step? Used to be that you could just put in a departure airport and get a full timetable of arrivals/departures for months ahead. Now you have to specify departure airport, destination airport, and date. So there doesn't seem to be a way of looking at the full timetable from any particular airport. Makes the timetable function a bit pointless.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Timetable
I thought exactly the same. It is no longer possible to get an overview of the schedules across the whole duration of the timetable.
The functionality is much the same as if you go into the 'book a flight' bit, except you can't actually book, so, as was said above, a bit pointless really.
I'd guess that this is not an accident, but a consequence of the current strategy of cancelling under used or under sold services. This timetable makes it much less visible if FlyBe suddenly decide, for example, to cut BHX-IOM-BHX to one cycle on Wed and Thu in August. Unless you have previously checked a specific route and date, you can't be sure if it has been changed or has disappeared.
That seems to give the airline maximum scheduling flexibility, but at a cost in terms of ease of use and level of information for the user.
I'm sure that in the world of FlyBe, everything happens for a reason, and this timetable change is a tool to allow them to manage capacity (= cancel flights) in these challenging times with as few people as possible actually noticing !
The functionality is much the same as if you go into the 'book a flight' bit, except you can't actually book, so, as was said above, a bit pointless really.
I'd guess that this is not an accident, but a consequence of the current strategy of cancelling under used or under sold services. This timetable makes it much less visible if FlyBe suddenly decide, for example, to cut BHX-IOM-BHX to one cycle on Wed and Thu in August. Unless you have previously checked a specific route and date, you can't be sure if it has been changed or has disappeared.
That seems to give the airline maximum scheduling flexibility, but at a cost in terms of ease of use and level of information for the user.
I'm sure that in the world of FlyBe, everything happens for a reason, and this timetable change is a tool to allow them to manage capacity (= cancel flights) in these challenging times with as few people as possible actually noticing !
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Online timetable
Shame that the "all destinations" has gone but it is quite neat
and always good for us "anoraks" to see aircraft type
.
Indeed checking some bhx routes in September I noticed that the
second based 195 no longer does MXP/CDG/DUS but MXP/MXP.
I could not find a flight in between the Milan's!
Also all the bhx June cuts remain in September & as one of BHX's busier
business months this is a disappointment. The flights cut are mainly 145's
(EDI, BHD, ABZ & IOM) but there is at least one Q400 (GLA) and one 195 flight (EDI) a week included.
Pete
and always good for us "anoraks" to see aircraft type
.Indeed checking some bhx routes in September I noticed that the
second based 195 no longer does MXP/CDG/DUS but MXP/MXP.
I could not find a flight in between the Milan's!
Also all the bhx June cuts remain in September & as one of BHX's busier
business months this is a disappointment. The flights cut are mainly 145's
(EDI, BHD, ABZ & IOM) but there is at least one Q400 (GLA) and one 195 flight (EDI) a week included.
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 15th Jun 2008 at 21:50. Reason: destinations added
Join Date: Mar 2008
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timetable
I was told on saturday that flybe did somethink to there timetable and that we have to fly 1 day later or from birmingham(route was 3/8/08 from man to haj and back on the 13/8/08).
Is there any reason for this????(aircraft problems or so)
Is there any reason for this????(aircraft problems or so)
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Flybe C(r)ash
This is happening on many routes (see previous posts from me, Egbert etc.) without any factual reason (the b.s. excuse was commercial reasons).
It seems probable that Flybe is losing money on and cutting out many routes/rotations responsible but it remains to be seen if this cash crisis will lead to the financial failure of Flybe.
It seems probable that Flybe is losing money on and cutting out many routes/rotations responsible but it remains to be seen if this cash crisis will lead to the financial failure of Flybe.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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civil aviation - you talk total and utter B******ks !! do you ever listen to the drivil that comes out of your mouth ???
The reason that Flybe is successfull is that they react to what's going on around them...
The reason why routes and timtable changes are happening is that with the price of oil being so high $140 a barrell at the moment, they are beeing progressive and looking ahead to see what booking's are looking like on numerous routes. If the booking's are low - why operate a route with say only 15-20 people on it and make a loss on it, when it is cheaper to re-book paxs or to give them a refund. It makes total economic sense. Unlike Ryanair we wont be parking up 20 aircraft over the winter and making if you can believe the rumours 600 redundent, we'll be flying as normal. Unlike Ryanair and Easyjet we have considerable less operating cost's due to the fact that they operate a far more fuel efficient a/c on shorter sector routes and they are a progressive company.
So before you spout on your normal drivil think about what you write and apply some logic as to why it's done !!
The reason that Flybe is successfull is that they react to what's going on around them...
The reason why routes and timtable changes are happening is that with the price of oil being so high $140 a barrell at the moment, they are beeing progressive and looking ahead to see what booking's are looking like on numerous routes. If the booking's are low - why operate a route with say only 15-20 people on it and make a loss on it, when it is cheaper to re-book paxs or to give them a refund. It makes total economic sense. Unlike Ryanair we wont be parking up 20 aircraft over the winter and making if you can believe the rumours 600 redundent, we'll be flying as normal. Unlike Ryanair and Easyjet we have considerable less operating cost's due to the fact that they operate a far more fuel efficient a/c on shorter sector routes and they are a progressive company.
So before you spout on your normal drivil think about what you write and apply some logic as to why it's done !!
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Civil Aviation clearly is a wanabee journo – hence his/her melodramatic sign-off, ‘it remains to be seen if this cash crisis will lead to the financial failure of Flybe’. Cue the Eastender’s drum-roll and voiceover saying ‘tune in next week when only Civil Aviation has the answer’……
Rather than listen to his/her ramblings, why not look at the example of a proper hack; did anyone else see Jim French on the Jeff Randall show on Sky News last week? http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91245-1318573,00.html
In the interview, he (JF) made particular play of the point that 80% of BE’s routes are double-daily or more. He compared that figure to the less than 20% of double-daily or more that FR operate. I’m not an accountant but I’d have thought that means it would be easier to cut back on services, rather than cut altogether. And that in turn would keep those all-important business routes up and running; something FR aspire to provide but with their schedule simply can’t. After all, what business-traveller wants to overnight when they can return home in the evening? Not to mention GLA vs PIK, BRU vs CRL, BHD vs BFS etc etc etc actually leading to longer travel.
In the interview, French also referred to the imminent announcement of record profits, so we’ll await Civil Aviation’s ‘financial failure’ posting a little longer, perhaps……..
Rather than listen to his/her ramblings, why not look at the example of a proper hack; did anyone else see Jim French on the Jeff Randall show on Sky News last week? http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91245-1318573,00.html
In the interview, he (JF) made particular play of the point that 80% of BE’s routes are double-daily or more. He compared that figure to the less than 20% of double-daily or more that FR operate. I’m not an accountant but I’d have thought that means it would be easier to cut back on services, rather than cut altogether. And that in turn would keep those all-important business routes up and running; something FR aspire to provide but with their schedule simply can’t. After all, what business-traveller wants to overnight when they can return home in the evening? Not to mention GLA vs PIK, BRU vs CRL, BHD vs BFS etc etc etc actually leading to longer travel.
In the interview, French also referred to the imminent announcement of record profits, so we’ll await Civil Aviation’s ‘financial failure’ posting a little longer, perhaps……..
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Outstanding Q400 orders
To change the current direction of this thread a little........... does anyone know for certain, exactly how many Q400's Flybe have on order/option/under LOI etc.
At the time of the BACON takeover I recall they had 60 firm orders, which were said to be needed to replace the E-145's and that soon after they ordered 5 more. That would take them to 65, sometime in late 2009 or 2010. Jethro's fleet summary show's 38 delivered, up to and including G-KKEV, and enough outstanding new a/c to take them to 65 - so far, so good.
However, 'Airliner World' this month says they have recently ordered 17 more plus 20 options. I can't reconcile these numbers with the figure of 65, but find it hard to believe these are additional as I don't think they were announced elsewhere.
To complicate matters further, 2 existing recent a/c, plus 2 undelivered a/c, appear to be going to Wideroe in exchange for 4 ex-SAS a/c, but this seems to be a temporary arrangement which will be unwound as Wideroe get their own new a/c during 2009/10, so I don't think this impacts the overall picture.
So, I guess my question is.......... when all outstanding orders are delivered, how many will they have, and what additional options are held?
In any event, with world wide attention turning to turboprops in current oil price crisis, FlyBe are looking pretty smart with these a/c in the pipeline!
At the time of the BACON takeover I recall they had 60 firm orders, which were said to be needed to replace the E-145's and that soon after they ordered 5 more. That would take them to 65, sometime in late 2009 or 2010. Jethro's fleet summary show's 38 delivered, up to and including G-KKEV, and enough outstanding new a/c to take them to 65 - so far, so good.
However, 'Airliner World' this month says they have recently ordered 17 more plus 20 options. I can't reconcile these numbers with the figure of 65, but find it hard to believe these are additional as I don't think they were announced elsewhere.
To complicate matters further, 2 existing recent a/c, plus 2 undelivered a/c, appear to be going to Wideroe in exchange for 4 ex-SAS a/c, but this seems to be a temporary arrangement which will be unwound as Wideroe get their own new a/c during 2009/10, so I don't think this impacts the overall picture.
So, I guess my question is.......... when all outstanding orders are delivered, how many will they have, and what additional options are held?
In any event, with world wide attention turning to turboprops in current oil price crisis, FlyBe are looking pretty smart with these a/c in the pipeline!
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Flybe Fleet
You don't need to ask Pruners.. it's all available on the web. Jethro's is usually pretty accurate..
http://www.jethros.dwsitech.com/flee...ings/flybe.htm
http://www.jethros.dwsitech.com/flee...ings/flybe.htm
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Thanks for your patronising response..........
The definitive answer is not available on the web. I'd already read Jethro's information, referring to it my post, and my whole point is that Jethro's doesn't reconcile with what AW are now reporting.
There are clearly some people on here who are closely involved with FlyBe and I hope they might know the true and accurate picture....................
The definitive answer is not available on the web. I'd already read Jethro's information, referring to it my post, and my whole point is that Jethro's doesn't reconcile with what AW are now reporting.
There are clearly some people on here who are closely involved with FlyBe and I hope they might know the true and accurate picture....................