Alitalia (Merged)
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Of course its better value, you idiot!
For 400M the Italian taxpayers get a serviceable airline, and thousands of ordinary working peoples livliehoods are saved.
For 700 BILLION the American taxpayers got a bunch of worthless paper, toxic assetts, and the multi-millionaire bankers and their fat cat buddies necks are saved.
You are a turkey voting for Christmas if you believe for one minute that the latter is 'the better deal'.
For 400M the Italian taxpayers get a serviceable airline, and thousands of ordinary working peoples livliehoods are saved.
For 700 BILLION the American taxpayers got a bunch of worthless paper, toxic assetts, and the multi-millionaire bankers and their fat cat buddies necks are saved.
You are a turkey voting for Christmas if you believe for one minute that the latter is 'the better deal'.
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Two weeks ago I'd have agreed with him too. Not anymore. Mine eyes have been opened.
Is Bush or Paulson going to criticise Berlusconi?
Of course not! The Capitalists have lost any moral right to preach to the rest of the world.
Capitalism has no shame, has abandoned its fundamental principles, and is terminally wounded. Why should Socialists feel guilty at this juncture? The rhetoric of the Right rings hollow to all but the fools who can't let it go.
I don't often agree with the nutter who runs Iran, but he's right about one thing he said at the UN. The age of American hegemony is ending, and with it the whole rotten edifice of Global Capitalism is in a slow motion collapse.
Feel free to cling to that discredited philosophy. The world is moving on.
Is Bush or Paulson going to criticise Berlusconi?
Of course not! The Capitalists have lost any moral right to preach to the rest of the world.
Capitalism has no shame, has abandoned its fundamental principles, and is terminally wounded. Why should Socialists feel guilty at this juncture? The rhetoric of the Right rings hollow to all but the fools who can't let it go.
I don't often agree with the nutter who runs Iran, but he's right about one thing he said at the UN. The age of American hegemony is ending, and with it the whole rotten edifice of Global Capitalism is in a slow motion collapse.
Feel free to cling to that discredited philosophy. The world is moving on.
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Socialism Prevails?
As I understand it, the debt (AKA the "bad" airline) gets nationalised (AKA "stuck on the taxpayer"), together with the retrenchment costs (Perhaps 2 Billion Euros in total?) whereas the valuable parts of the airline (AKA the "good" airline) including the newer aircraft and the valuable landing slots, gets sold to Uncle Sylvio and his buddies for a song.
My apologies to our communist element, but I fail to see how this represents best Socialist practise?
This smells of capitalism with a capital "C" for corruption in true Italian style, all in the name of "Nationalism".
Pathetic really.
My apologies to our communist element, but I fail to see how this represents best Socialist practise?
This smells of capitalism with a capital "C" for corruption in true Italian style, all in the name of "Nationalism".
Pathetic really.
Last edited by philipat; 26th Sep 2008 at 11:01. Reason: Typos
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Did I give the impression I back Berlusconi? Sorry - allow me to enlighten you.
Berlusconi is a Capitalist.
The fix is in, but the game isn't finished. We're just 5 minutes into the first half.
Alitalia is now in a holding pattern. The political endgame will play out over the coming 12 to 18 months as capitalism succumbs.
I see the Senate has balked at Bush's bailout.
Let it rain, let it pour!
Berlusconi is a Capitalist.
The fix is in, but the game isn't finished. We're just 5 minutes into the first half.
Alitalia is now in a holding pattern. The political endgame will play out over the coming 12 to 18 months as capitalism succumbs.
I see the Senate has balked at Bush's bailout.
Let it rain, let it pour!
La Repubblica reports that one flight attendant union has agreed to sign, but two other attendant unions plus two pilot unions are still negotiating. The deadline was 1 pm, but at 2:30 pm they said "the clocks have been stopped so they can continue talking" 
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Socialism is beyond me
Did I give the impression I back Berlusconi? Sorry - allow me to enlighten you.
Now I'm really confused about what you folks believe.
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Hi Kremlin
the money pumped into Alitalia is bad because it will not appease the overheated markets. Quite to the contrary.
In the greater scope of things it does not matter for which airline which pilot or CC works, so long as that company has a trackrecord of delivering safe and good service.
The Italian airports will continue to be serviced, Italians will continue to be hired, except for those who show no understanding for market value or who don't give a sh*t about customers needs .
As to capitalism or communism, i believe in the market forces provided they are reasonably controlled (contrary to the international banking system)
So I still say, it would be better if Alitalia went down so that the Italian airways could be rid of dead wood
the money pumped into Alitalia is bad because it will not appease the overheated markets. Quite to the contrary.
In the greater scope of things it does not matter for which airline which pilot or CC works, so long as that company has a trackrecord of delivering safe and good service.
The Italian airports will continue to be serviced, Italians will continue to be hired, except for those who show no understanding for market value or who don't give a sh*t about customers needs .
As to capitalism or communism, i believe in the market forces provided they are reasonably controlled (contrary to the international banking system)
So I still say, it would be better if Alitalia went down so that the Italian airways could be rid of dead wood
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Sorry, I was merely quoting your own earlier post that the money spent in salvaging Alitalia is a good use of taxpayers funds?
the money pumped into Alitalia is bad because it will not appease the overheated markets. Quite to the contrary.
In the greater scope of things it does not matter for which airline which pilot or CC works, so long as that company has a trackrecord of delivering safe and good service.
Doesn't matter who pilots work for, huh? All the same, eh?
Yeah - we all wanna work for O'Leary. Whats the diff?
Wise up!
The Italian airports will continue to be serviced, Italians will continue to be hired, except for those who show no understanding for market value or who don't give a sh*t about customers needs .
As to capitalism or communism, i believe in the market forces provided they are reasonably controlled (contrary to the international banking system)
That's REGULATION!
I thought you Capitalists demanded DE- regulation?
I thought the mantra was a 'de-regulated market will sort it out'?
Finally copped on it doesn't work?
What does this 'reasonable' word mean anyhow? How much REGULATION do you consider 'reasonable'? Can you define it? Why have you backed away from your DE-regulation mantra?
The truth is dawning on you, but its hard to let go, isn't it.
So I still say, it would be better if Alitalia went down so that the Italian airways could be rid of dead wood
Meanwhile, keep diggin' baby!
As far as news is concerned, there´s no news, except that they have decided to continue talking on Monday. Stay tuned for the next installment of this never-ending saga 
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Interessting report how the italian sky is changing
Alitalia’s rivals ready to pounce at Rome; easyJet and Air One already exploiting opportunities at Malpensa | anna.aero
Alitalia’s rivals ready to pounce at Rome; easyJet and Air One already exploiting opportunities at Malpensa | anna.aero
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Re: 'stopping the clock'
Turns out that the ultimatum tactics have not been working as it has been shown some people (cgil, anpav, anpac/up - by now you should know who they are
was able to figure out that the CAI fold of last week was only to prepare better the second hand of talks. Mr. Gianni Letta mediated, and apparently beneficial presence compared to the Min of transportation that is not like a super bright guy and probably had to ask all the time his boss on what to do. At this point deadlines are given mostly to seem more serious a process.
In the meanwhile Berlusconi took some relax in Tuscany after been told by Colaninno and the banks that all was good and they would manouver. By now he may really be seeing it done and wants to be at the table with the others to harvest a success on Monday. All the other politicians are also saying that they worked toward an agreement and should not be spared thanks by the country. No don't ask why not tomorrow.
Most likely partner to enter now is LH with 15% meaning they would have as much money in it as anybody else and can technically lead as they know a thing or two about the business. I think at this point this would be very welcome by everyone.
Turns out that the ultimatum tactics have not been working as it has been shown some people (cgil, anpav, anpac/up - by now you should know who they are
was able to figure out that the CAI fold of last week was only to prepare better the second hand of talks. Mr. Gianni Letta mediated, and apparently beneficial presence compared to the Min of transportation that is not like a super bright guy and probably had to ask all the time his boss on what to do. At this point deadlines are given mostly to seem more serious a process.In the meanwhile Berlusconi took some relax in Tuscany after been told by Colaninno and the banks that all was good and they would manouver. By now he may really be seeing it done and wants to be at the table with the others to harvest a success on Monday. All the other politicians are also saying that they worked toward an agreement and should not be spared thanks by the country. No don't ask why not tomorrow.
Most likely partner to enter now is LH with 15% meaning they would have as much money in it as anybody else and can technically lead as they know a thing or two about the business. I think at this point this would be very welcome by everyone.
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alitalia with cai
all thats well should end well 
i feel most successful business have grown due to direct or indirect government supports and vice versa they too have at crucial times assisted to back governments and whether it is the location of plants/ factories duty drawbacks / foreign policies etc governments directly or indirectly always want to support their own country enterprises and rightly so cause they earn in taxes and generate employment
i think if the italian government can turn around their flagship airline company then its bravo
i feel most successful business have grown due to direct or indirect government supports and vice versa they too have at crucial times assisted to back governments and whether it is the location of plants/ factories duty drawbacks / foreign policies etc governments directly or indirectly always want to support their own country enterprises and rightly so cause they earn in taxes and generate employment
i think if the italian government can turn around their flagship airline company then its bravo
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OK I will bite... What have you been smoking???? 
Alitalia has been run bad and thus should end bad...
This might the thinking in India but not in the rest of the world.... The only succesful airlines in India are in my view Kingfisher and Jet Airways and everything that is Air India should be avoided BECAUSE of governement involvement and the same stupid situation as with Alitalia...
If you read this thread and research Alitalia just a little bit you would laugh at your own weird comments... 
all thats well should end well
i feel most successful business have grown due to direct or indirect government supports and vice versa they too have at crucial times assisted to back governments and whether it is the location of plants/ factories duty drawbacks / foreign policies etc governments directly or indirectly always want to support their own country enterprises and rightly so cause they earn in taxes and generate employment
i think if the italian government can turn around their flagship airline company then its bravo
Last edited by No RYR for me; 28th Sep 2008 at 10:56. Reason: Typos
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Alitalia has been run bad and thus should end bad... 
This might the thinking in India but not in the rest of the world.... The only succesful airlines in India are in my view Kingfisher and Jet Airways and everything that is Air India should be avoided BECAUSE of governement involvement and the same stupid situation as with Alitalia... 
i think if the italian government can turn around their flagship airline company then its bravo
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If you read this thread and research Alitalia just a little bit you would laugh at your own weird comments...
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If you read this thread and research Alitalia just a little bit you would laugh at your own weird comments...
Would that be more to your liking?
What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.