BELFAST (BHD) - 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Aer Lingus fly to AMS, BCN, BUD, FAO, GVA, LHR, AGP, NCE and FCO
easyJet fly to AMS, BCN, FAO, GVA, LGW/LTN/STN, AGP and NCE.
Therefore EI only have Budapest, London Heathrow and Rome without any competition. easyJet did used to serve Rome CIA from BFS but this is not returning for S08 as originally planned.
easyJet fly to AMS, BCN, FAO, GVA, LGW/LTN/STN, AGP and NCE.
Therefore EI only have Budapest, London Heathrow and Rome without any competition. easyJet did used to serve Rome CIA from BFS but this is not returning for S08 as originally planned.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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how many of ei's routes are ez on outta bfs?
To many!
EI's start up in BFS will need to improve in the new year. I am sure there is someone in DUB slighly worried with regards to the chosen route structure. The new year might bring new sense and they will pull out of EZY's routes and create other more viable options.
EI's start up in BFS will need to improve in the new year. I am sure there is someone in DUB slighly worried with regards to the chosen route structure. The new year might bring new sense and they will pull out of EZY's routes and create other more viable options.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Aer Lingus
They started by choosing the wrong airport (other side of water) but
I would say that wouldn't I?
The routes chosen was like a double kick in the teeth for BHX!
They were basically were saying we can make more money at
Belfast going up against Easyjet than at BHX where there were
half decent destinations untouched at the time (Madrid, Stockholm
Helsinki, Venice, Krakow, Budapest, Riga) and against hand-tied competition (Baby with lack of aircraft and flybe with lack of crews).
This is without the routes which probably could have taken some competition such as Munich, Copenhagen, etc.
I am sure they will sort it out and find the right route structure but
BHX in the short-term would have been less painful and of course is
still open with Easy only testing the water and Ryanair....well no chance.
Pete
I would say that wouldn't I?
The routes chosen was like a double kick in the teeth for BHX!
They were basically were saying we can make more money at
Belfast going up against Easyjet than at BHX where there were
half decent destinations untouched at the time (Madrid, Stockholm
Helsinki, Venice, Krakow, Budapest, Riga) and against hand-tied competition (Baby with lack of aircraft and flybe with lack of crews).
This is without the routes which probably could have taken some competition such as Munich, Copenhagen, etc.
I am sure they will sort it out and find the right route structure but
BHX in the short-term would have been less painful and of course is
still open with Easy only testing the water and Ryanair....well no chance.
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 15th Dec 2007 at 21:42. Reason: missing word
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Well they got themselves a nice wedge from the Ian and Martin show to kick off with. You'd have thought they would use the advantage rather than p**sing it up against the wall. Easyjet allowed themselves to be poked in the eye by competitors in the past but it would seem that there is some resolve now to ensure that doesn't happen again. The PRG is now EZY's, having seen Jet2 off in a matter of weeks. That would seem to be retaliation for Jet2 going head to head with EZY on Spain last summer. Next summer's AMS has been rescheduled to annoy EI. The introduction of a new early LGW isn't going to help EI's LHR either with its poor timings. Aer Lingus is just another loco and one that makes considerably less cash than Easy. They'll need to get smarter..and soon.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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It does make you wonder about the planning. But what input does Bfs have into this? Surely the airport has some input and info on whether the route structure being proposed is sensible? Why would they even allow Ei to go against Ezy, when at the end of the day, if it fails, the airport suffers too. At one time, they blocked Go from doing Ema, because they knew baby were planning it.
But then, the way Bfs is run, nothing amazes me. I always think that if you get the small things right, then there is a greater possibility that the big decisions will be better as well. I believe that one flows from the other. This is an airport that finds it impossible to get the info on their web site on arrivals to match what appears on ceefax. They believe that they match, but it doesn't, but they do nothing about it. This is an airport that calls itself international, but at times shows about three hours ahead on ceefax arrivals. Nobody can't add the arrival time on ceefax of a new york flight thats been flying 7 hours until about 30 minutes before arrival. Great help if you need to drive from Derry or Donegal. I know that some of this information issue is the responsibility of the handling agent, they tell me, but they should make them do better.
So if these little items can't be got right, then what hope for getting a new route structure right.
True Blue
But then, the way Bfs is run, nothing amazes me. I always think that if you get the small things right, then there is a greater possibility that the big decisions will be better as well. I believe that one flows from the other. This is an airport that finds it impossible to get the info on their web site on arrivals to match what appears on ceefax. They believe that they match, but it doesn't, but they do nothing about it. This is an airport that calls itself international, but at times shows about three hours ahead on ceefax arrivals. Nobody can't add the arrival time on ceefax of a new york flight thats been flying 7 hours until about 30 minutes before arrival. Great help if you need to drive from Derry or Donegal. I know that some of this information issue is the responsibility of the handling agent, they tell me, but they should make them do better.
So if these little items can't be got right, then what hope for getting a new route structure right.
True Blue
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Saying that theres too much capacity to AMS, so EI should not have launched the route is a joke. EI can provide connections in AMS and LHR with KL and BA, so EZY doesnt worry them. The fact that GVA had a low load isnt great, but the route is barely a week old, and it happens on plenty of routes.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Easyjet seem to be quite offended at Aer Lingus' entry to Belfast! I' m afraid thats life in the airline business lads! I'm sure easyjet would be happy to use similar tactics if it suited them! So I think you should calm down! I'm sure it will all turn out fine! Besides more competition is good for NI plc and my holiday wil cost far less next summer 
Rebel PPRuNer
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Is EI seeing any government traffic yet? Presumably they were relying on the pols to send them frequent flyers who book last minute at top rates.
As for loads - time was when routes like GVA would have been proven with 735s... but EI got rid of everything under A320s. A few EMB195s would be handy right now... or even A319s.
As for loads - time was when routes like GVA would have been proven with 735s... but EI got rid of everything under A320s. A few EMB195s would be handy right now... or even A319s.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I wouldn't say Easyjet is offended at Aer Lingus entering the fray at BFS. More likely, mildly irritated. Easyjet pays more attention to credible contenders with robust loco models. Aer Lingus havn't quite got the hang of that yet. The onus is on Aer Lingus to try and snatch some scraps off Easyjet here , not the other way round. As for cheap flights for all, smell the coffee. Ultimately it will lead to more expensive flights when the rationalisation takes place 
The Aer Lingus arrival in BFS is a disappointment but only because they could have been much more original with their choice of routes. The airport is happy for them to play against Easyjet because they think they will be getting an A330 out of it. No reason why that shouldn't happen in time but a risky airport strategy to bite the hand that feeds in the meantime.
The Aer Lingus arrival in BFS is a disappointment but only because they could have been much more original with their choice of routes. The airport is happy for them to play against Easyjet because they think they will be getting an A330 out of it. No reason why that shouldn't happen in time but a risky airport strategy to bite the hand that feeds in the meantime.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The EI business model is interesting and attractive to certain (mainly business) flyers:
- pre bookable seats
- preassign seats - no mad dash to the plane
- ff program - one J flight to US and lounge access for year
- codesharing with ba and klm
- reasonable seat pitch
Problems with early morning slot ex BFS to LHR and late slot LHR to BFS.
Biggest advantage will be not having in traffic jam on M2 or M1 tryingto get to BD for morning flights.
Biggest problem at the moment is with the BA.com booking engine that often only links a full Y BFS-LHR with J/F business/first fare rather than I/A.
As with any start-up think need to give 6 months before making decisions.
- pre bookable seats
- preassign seats - no mad dash to the plane
- ff program - one J flight to US and lounge access for year
- codesharing with ba and klm
- reasonable seat pitch
Problems with early morning slot ex BFS to LHR and late slot LHR to BFS.
Biggest advantage will be not having in traffic jam on M2 or M1 tryingto get to BD for morning flights.
Biggest problem at the moment is with the BA.com booking engine that often only links a full Y BFS-LHR with J/F business/first fare rather than I/A.
As with any start-up think need to give 6 months before making decisions.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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With the start of flights to cdg next summer from bhd what other international flights could be operated, could dusseldorf or frankfurt be operated with say a 737, i know there are some restrictions and i know that ryanair can not operate flights down to spain and southern france but could dusseldorf be served by air berlin(737) or flybe(d800,e195)?
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Aer Lingus flights
I have been reading the comments above about Aer Lingus and such comments as how low the loads are, the bad choice of routes, the doom that is being spelled out. I have to say I find this view very short sighted and it is sad how many people predict failure.
I might point out the obvious. Firstly, it is only to be expected that the new routes eg Geneva will have low loads for the first few inbound (to BFS) flights. This is because that the majority of the traffic originates in Belfast so Aer Lingus will have few passengers to bring back on the first flights as they will have not transported any BFS originating passenger to these destinations eg GVA.
Secondly, this is a quiet period just before the Christmas peak. It is a bad time of the year to make a call on loads and hence viability etc. Easyjet have poor boardings on Stansted, some Glasgow and some Liverpool flights, does this mean that they will scrap these? Not necessarily, they are in the lull before christmas.
As regards the comments about the bad choice of routes. Well I think that is complete rubbish. Aer Lingus have chosen routes that have decent levels of traffic on them and since they have a low cost base they will be able to be as profitable as any of the other carriers on the route. Aer Lingus have learned how to and have adapted to Ryanair competition, it is believed that Aer Lingus has a lower cost base than Easyjet. So if Aer Lingus can survive and make profit (albeit small profit on some short haul routes) on routes where they compete with Ryanair, this tells me that easyjet will be a less of a challenge than Ryanair. So lets wait and see on this one. Aer Lingus will establish themselves on the established routes that people use from Belfast and once they have made their mark they will develop new markets that are currently not on offer.
Amsterdam and London Heathrow will represent the bulk of Aer Lingus' offering from Belfast and these are more secure as Aer Lingus has the luxury of interlining at these airports with BA/KLM.
If we look at the positive side of all this we could recognise the successes that have been achieved at Aer Lingus this past year. They have at last proven that they can make big decisions on a commercial basis eg Movement of Shannon Heathrow slots to Belfast.
The unions were met head on and they got progress on establishing BFS as a base that is not subject to the same set of rules as ROI rules. Eg Crew pay.
And as someone said above, aer lingus have an attractive offering with services such as pre assigned seating, and the usual things such as online check in, interlining , FF programme, & lounge access etc.
In addition, it is should be remembered that Aer Lingus know exactly how many Northern Ireland residents use their Dublin services and this is a good guide to where the people want to go. EG if 1000 people who are from NI book at Aerlingus.com to fly Dublin/Rome in a week, Aer lingus are aware of the possible level of demand that could exist from BFS. Aer Lingus did a very large piece of work around this information.
As regards EZY, of course they wouldnt want another airline in the market, they had BFS all to themselves for too long. Aer Lingus will be a interesting challenge to EZY. If AerLingus got stung in a bitter war with EZY I could see FR step in and stand up for Aer Lingus in some way. EZY backed out of so many where FR joined the fray I can see an EI /FR effort having quite an impression on EZY at Belfast. However , lets wait a few months before we make any big conclusions. Today was only the 7th day of EI service at BFS since they set up shop!!
Merry Christmas to all fellow members.
EI BUD
I might point out the obvious. Firstly, it is only to be expected that the new routes eg Geneva will have low loads for the first few inbound (to BFS) flights. This is because that the majority of the traffic originates in Belfast so Aer Lingus will have few passengers to bring back on the first flights as they will have not transported any BFS originating passenger to these destinations eg GVA.
Secondly, this is a quiet period just before the Christmas peak. It is a bad time of the year to make a call on loads and hence viability etc. Easyjet have poor boardings on Stansted, some Glasgow and some Liverpool flights, does this mean that they will scrap these? Not necessarily, they are in the lull before christmas.
As regards the comments about the bad choice of routes. Well I think that is complete rubbish. Aer Lingus have chosen routes that have decent levels of traffic on them and since they have a low cost base they will be able to be as profitable as any of the other carriers on the route. Aer Lingus have learned how to and have adapted to Ryanair competition, it is believed that Aer Lingus has a lower cost base than Easyjet. So if Aer Lingus can survive and make profit (albeit small profit on some short haul routes) on routes where they compete with Ryanair, this tells me that easyjet will be a less of a challenge than Ryanair. So lets wait and see on this one. Aer Lingus will establish themselves on the established routes that people use from Belfast and once they have made their mark they will develop new markets that are currently not on offer.
Amsterdam and London Heathrow will represent the bulk of Aer Lingus' offering from Belfast and these are more secure as Aer Lingus has the luxury of interlining at these airports with BA/KLM.
If we look at the positive side of all this we could recognise the successes that have been achieved at Aer Lingus this past year. They have at last proven that they can make big decisions on a commercial basis eg Movement of Shannon Heathrow slots to Belfast.
The unions were met head on and they got progress on establishing BFS as a base that is not subject to the same set of rules as ROI rules. Eg Crew pay.
And as someone said above, aer lingus have an attractive offering with services such as pre assigned seating, and the usual things such as online check in, interlining , FF programme, & lounge access etc.
In addition, it is should be remembered that Aer Lingus know exactly how many Northern Ireland residents use their Dublin services and this is a good guide to where the people want to go. EG if 1000 people who are from NI book at Aerlingus.com to fly Dublin/Rome in a week, Aer lingus are aware of the possible level of demand that could exist from BFS. Aer Lingus did a very large piece of work around this information.
As regards EZY, of course they wouldnt want another airline in the market, they had BFS all to themselves for too long. Aer Lingus will be a interesting challenge to EZY. If AerLingus got stung in a bitter war with EZY I could see FR step in and stand up for Aer Lingus in some way. EZY backed out of so many where FR joined the fray I can see an EI /FR effort having quite an impression on EZY at Belfast. However , lets wait a few months before we make any big conclusions. Today was only the 7th day of EI service at BFS since they set up shop!!
Merry Christmas to all fellow members.
EI BUD
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Er, been drinking have we? EI have a lower cost base than EZY?? So EI got the same deal on a few new buses that EZY did for hundreds? It's cost effective to Hotac dozens of crew in the Europa? And how many local (cheap) pilots actually got recruited?
EI profits fell last year while Easy's hit their stretch target. You are inferring that Aer Lingus do not know their competition. To make sweeping statements that the challenge is from from RYR and not EZY is dillusional. As for RYR giving EI an helping hand well that's about as likely as Bin Laden helping Bush with Iraq. You are correct that EZY had BFS to themselves for too long and in the past they have run away from RYR. That however was under a different management. Things have changed and only the foolish would expect the orange team to run away from a fight on their own patch these days.
EI profits fell last year while Easy's hit their stretch target. You are inferring that Aer Lingus do not know their competition. To make sweeping statements that the challenge is from from RYR and not EZY is dillusional. As for RYR giving EI an helping hand well that's about as likely as Bin Laden helping Bush with Iraq. You are correct that EZY had BFS to themselves for too long and in the past they have run away from RYR. That however was under a different management. Things have changed and only the foolish would expect the orange team to run away from a fight on their own patch these days.
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Question for BHD Dispatchers!
Hi all
As ex bmi crew based at BHD 2002-2006 I have been reading this thread with interest.
Flew STN-BHD Friday night, why are Ryanair crew blocking off rows? (7 at front and same at rear), they claim it's for "aircraft balancing" but I reckon it's so they don't have to clean and security check them on turnarounds. They did the same on return flt last night. Thoughts anyone? Also on Friday night the crew member who introduced herself as the SCA/No 1 sat at the rear for take off and landing. I've not too much experience of flying B737 but surely a senior should always be at the front to be near the F/D, have a clear view of the cabin etc..
Happy Christmas to all bmi at BHD!
As ex bmi crew based at BHD 2002-2006 I have been reading this thread with interest.
Flew STN-BHD Friday night, why are Ryanair crew blocking off rows? (7 at front and same at rear), they claim it's for "aircraft balancing" but I reckon it's so they don't have to clean and security check them on turnarounds. They did the same on return flt last night. Thoughts anyone? Also on Friday night the crew member who introduced herself as the SCA/No 1 sat at the rear for take off and landing. I've not too much experience of flying B737 but surely a senior should always be at the front to be near the F/D, have a clear view of the cabin etc..
Happy Christmas to all bmi at BHD!
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Ryanair Seating Restrictions
Donzers,
The blocking of the rows you mention is to do with the weight and balance of the aircraft. Depending on the number of checked in pax, the crew will block certain rows. It states on a Ryanair load sheet:
Remember the standard loading is bags in Hold 2, you don’t want the aircraft to get too nose heavy.
bfsalphaone
The blocking of the rows you mention is to do with the weight and balance of the aircraft. Depending on the number of checked in pax, the crew will block certain rows. It states on a Ryanair load sheet:
- With 177 passengers or less do not seat passengers in forward rows 3 & 4
- A) No passengers seated in forward 6 and aft 4 seat rows.
B) Max of 132 passengers
Remember the standard loading is bags in Hold 2, you don’t want the aircraft to get too nose heavy.
bfsalphaone