BELFAST (BHD) - 3
ryan 737-800 require 2750mts at max take off ££ on a dry runway just a bit of info figures for nil wind on a standard day sea height etc
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Since when!
BLK has the same length runway (roughly) as BHD and they operate flights with 189 passengers to DUB and GRO throughout the year with most flights full through the summer months!
A 738 doesn't need that long a runway, especially if it has winglets! In the recent edition of a larger aviation magazine, a Wizzair A320 is able to climb away at just over 3000ft with 118 passengers onbaord. Surely, if this was full, it wouldn't need over 8000ft!
BLK has the same length runway (roughly) as BHD and they operate flights with 189 passengers to DUB and GRO throughout the year with most flights full through the summer months!
A 738 doesn't need that long a runway, especially if it has winglets! In the recent edition of a larger aviation magazine, a Wizzair A320 is able to climb away at just over 3000ft with 118 passengers onbaord. Surely, if this was full, it wouldn't need over 8000ft!
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Still an area that I dont understand and I haven't had anyone explain to me. MUFC Are you saying that a 738 with 118 POB can successfully use a 900 metre runway, seems very short to me given that LDY has 1850 and FR required an extension to maintain operations.
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I'm sure what is being said is that it is possible to get a lightly loaded aircraft off the ground in 900 metres, that doesn't cover a fully loaded and fuelled aircraft, nor does it cover the requirement to be able to stop with sufficient runway available in the event of say an engine failure or fire or to have sufficient clearance from obstacles on the climb out with only one engine operating (if a 2 eng aircraft), so add the stopping distance required to the take off distance required and you're about there, it obviously varies with aircraft weight. If you have a departure out over the sea the obstacles are usually not a problem, if you depart over a city or towards hills then they can be a problem and the way round that is to limit the take off weight of the aircraft (less fuel or load) in order to meet the requirements. These calculations are made for every flight every day.
Less fuel obvously restricts the range that can be flown without stopping, less load means either baggage doesnt arrive with the passengers or fewer passengers therefore less revenue.
Winglets may have benefits but they increase the dry mass of the aircraft by a few hundres kilos but save significantly on longer flights, swings and roundabouts.
Less fuel obvously restricts the range that can be flown without stopping, less load means either baggage doesnt arrive with the passengers or fewer passengers therefore less revenue.
Winglets may have benefits but they increase the dry mass of the aircraft by a few hundres kilos but save significantly on longer flights, swings and roundabouts.
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and the winglets reduce induced drag and also increase the climb gradient performance.
Fact is BHD is short and tkaing off towards the City will cause penalties in climb restrictions/runway length whereas off 04 will be length restrictions.
Fact is BHD is short and tkaing off towards the City will cause penalties in climb restrictions/runway length whereas off 04 will be length restrictions.
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Never mind the late flights, the 06.30 Sunday morning flight is seriously going to affect my sleep patern, albeit for for a very short time, and I live 15 miles away. I`m sure Cultra et al will love a nice wake up call every Sunday!!
Gate 22 , Rwy extension plans started long before your first post so just accept the inevitable.
Gate 22 , Rwy extension plans started long before your first post so just accept the inevitable.
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Ok I accept BHD will get a 600m runway extension along with an extended operating time until 12 midnight. All this will enable transatlantic flights, wide bodied jets (especially fuelled with FR's transatlantic ambitions). It will also give BHD an equal playing field against BFS. They will probably also construct a second terminal on the opposite side of the runway. Basically it will become the main airport for Belfast like GLA. I wouldn't have thought this 7 years ago with its close proximity to a large built-up area extending from Belvoir to Cultra, but recent events from 2001 would suggest that the commercial desire from Bhd is to great to stop. The planners, residents and government can't stop it. I for one don't live under the flight path so this won't affect me, and I would support one airport for Belfast its too small for 2. However if the government were to state this then investment in infrastructure to accommodate this, could start now. Eg widening M3/Sydneham By-pass. Providing new link from Fortwilliam/Holywood thus by-passing Belfast altogether. The way things are going in 10 years BFS will be a 24 hr operation cargo centre with 'FR' and a couple of other low costs. Not unlike Prestwick.
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along with an extended operating time until 12 midnight. All this will enable transatlantic flights, wide bodied jets (especially fuelled with FR's transatlantic ambitions). It will also give BHD an equal playing field against BFS. They will probably also construct a second terminal on the opposite side of the runway
And if that happens ...I will have my hat...lightly sauteed with a side order of champ
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Well how come Mr Ambrose said during the FR announcement 'we have no intention of allowing wide bodied aircraft to operate out of BHD'. During the lifting the cap argument he said 'we have no intention of extending the runway'. My point being he seems to double bluff. (its in his mind). Also 600m extension brings Bhd up into easy transatlantic operations. Even if wide bodies are not used, what is there to prevent, say in 2 years time Continental moving their 757 operation to bhd. Absolutely nothing!!. Its the thin end of the wedge first 1989 - 146's (remember the protests) then 2001 A321's (remember the outcry) 2007 - runway extension to 2400m. This is the reality of the situation. Next the cap gets lifted and an extension in the hours. Out of all these I thought runway extension would be the most difficult to get passed. However who will stop it in reality.
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Oh and some lightly steamed vegetables......get real.....
The noise lobby in Cultra get very aerated when stuff flies in at the moment...do you seriously think that there will not be a protracted public enquiry?.Government policy is for BFS to remain the principal airport in NI. It will remain so,not least because ALL the bits are already in place.The runway,the ils,the staff(
) the access to all parts of the province. What sort of road improvements are required for your pie in the sky plans?
Pie in the sky for dessert please...
The noise lobby in Cultra get very aerated when stuff flies in at the moment...do you seriously think that there will not be a protracted public enquiry?.Government policy is for BFS to remain the principal airport in NI. It will remain so,not least because ALL the bits are already in place.The runway,the ils,the staff(
) the access to all parts of the province. What sort of road improvements are required for your pie in the sky plans?Pie in the sky for dessert please...
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for your pie in the sky plans?
Not my plans 'bhd's'. I agree BFS is the obvious choice to be the main airport and at this moment it is, however with previous experience who will actually stop the runway extension/future growth-nobody. You see a short while ago we were all told that bhd was a safe aerodrome to operate into by all the aircraft that use it blah blah blah!. Now we are starting to hear 'well there is a safety point in that a longer runway would mean that the current aircraft wouldn't need adjustments or weight restrictions to operate' You see its all turning round now to health and safety and that's how they will get an extension. More operaters use the field then its 4 million passengers, we are at capacity now jobs are at threat the economy of NI is under threat - ok your cap will be 8 million etc etc
Not my plans 'bhd's'. I agree BFS is the obvious choice to be the main airport and at this moment it is, however with previous experience who will actually stop the runway extension/future growth-nobody. You see a short while ago we were all told that bhd was a safe aerodrome to operate into by all the aircraft that use it blah blah blah!. Now we are starting to hear 'well there is a safety point in that a longer runway would mean that the current aircraft wouldn't need adjustments or weight restrictions to operate' You see its all turning round now to health and safety and that's how they will get an extension. More operaters use the field then its 4 million passengers, we are at capacity now jobs are at threat the economy of NI is under threat - ok your cap will be 8 million etc etc
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The current trend in airport "design" is to move away from noise and population sensitive areas. This is why harbour will NEVER take over from BFS.It simply will not be allowed. The infrastructure is already in place.
Now I am off for a lie down to digest!!
Nurse...brandy and a cool compress!!!!!
Now I am off for a lie down to digest!!
Nurse...brandy and a cool compress!!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Not long now till we see a massive shake up within the aviation industry within NI lets forget about with airport is better bigger etc BFS will always be the main airport as the gov stated BHD will always operate the more important point which should be talked about WHICH airlines will survive the next 18 months not all off them can its thrown out now lets see your answers
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New Belfast Airport
With all this ongoing "debate" about caps, runway extensions, transatlantic operations from BHD, the 'noise' affecting the poor people of Cultra through their double glazing and tree laden gardens and so on, surely the answer is simple - time to invest in Ards. 
I can see it now - a new terminal and hotel complex incorporated into the Castlebawn retail development (maybe that's what the incredible delay is in getting it off the ground), a runway extension almost into Comber, demolition of those offending houses on the Bowtown hill, approaches in and departures out over Strangford Lough, and a new cargo centre and long stay car park where the old abattoir was on the Portaferry Road.
The airfield did operate scheduled car ferry services in the past - maybe it's time to return to the Silver City days once more .....
I'll get my coat ......
I can see it now - a new terminal and hotel complex incorporated into the Castlebawn retail development (maybe that's what the incredible delay is in getting it off the ground), a runway extension almost into Comber, demolition of those offending houses on the Bowtown hill, approaches in and departures out over Strangford Lough, and a new cargo centre and long stay car park where the old abattoir was on the Portaferry Road.
The airfield did operate scheduled car ferry services in the past - maybe it's time to return to the Silver City days once more .....
I'll get my coat ......
