British Airways - 2
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Second that motion
Agreed it is time for some sort of backlash as we will end up with no aircraft to fly, due to rising fuel cost.
Passengers asking why the extra charges
GLA - LHR ticket £128.last month this week
GLA - LHR £240 ?
Why dont we start something together at LHR that would hit the most.
Passengers asking why the extra charges
GLA - LHR ticket £128.last month this week
GLA - LHR £240 ?
Why dont we start something together at LHR that would hit the most.
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why can't the airlines or who represents them get together & TELL the oil traders that they will not buy fuel over a certain price? If all airlines & operators of aircraft did this would that not force the oil majors to peg prices,at least for aviation?
Or is getting aviation to present a united front an impossible dream?
I guess it's always a case of economics - supply & demand, plus geopolitical tensions when it comes to oil.
Something has to be done at some point - we can't have 90% of the airlines that fly people, including oil execs, around the world go to the wall!
Or is getting aviation to present a united front an impossible dream?
I guess it's always a case of economics - supply & demand, plus geopolitical tensions when it comes to oil.
Something has to be done at some point - we can't have 90% of the airlines that fly people, including oil execs, around the world go to the wall!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it is time for interpreter, BYALPHAINDIA and DAVYDAY to wake up. You have no birthright on cheap energy.
If you think you can do better than BP & Esso, just start your own energy company. If you think you have an viable way of extracting oil shales, do it. Better than blaming OPEC, energy company's, China, India, Bush, the entire US, the speculators etc, etc.
If you think you can do better than BP & Esso, just start your own energy company. If you think you have an viable way of extracting oil shales, do it. Better than blaming OPEC, energy company's, China, India, Bush, the entire US, the speculators etc, etc.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheap oil
SACCADE. You have not read what I said. The oil companies will find a way to provide an economcal energy source for transpotation but to think that oil is close to running out is absurd. At current usage we still have hundreds of years supply. Locally there may be problems. The gulf states are now planning coal fired power stations with South African coal. We have coal reserves of enormous magnitude here in the UK.
Mankind will find a way but - watch this space - oil prices will come down and I hope a lot of speculators burn their fingers.
Mankind will find a way but - watch this space - oil prices will come down and I hope a lot of speculators burn their fingers.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: midlands
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't buy petrol from Esso and BP to hurt them? What a load of bollocks frankly. Where do you think that the supermarkets get their fuel from? To be honest i haven't heard too many reports coming in of oil exploration in the "Tescos" oil field.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
interpreter, we are not running out, but we are peaking. Supply is stagnant over the past three years, and the bad news for 2008 is that production from Russia (2nd producer in the world) is now in decline. EIA has estimated that demand is 87,2 mb/d for 2008, and supply is approx 86mb/d. This is the reason for $129 oil, and the Goldman & Sachs prediction of $200 oil.
I don't share your religious confidence in the ingenuity of mankind, but I will definitely be watching this space.
I don't share your religious confidence in the ingenuity of mankind, but I will definitely be watching this space.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Supply is stagnant because of limitations in refining capacity, not resource. Irans refineries are aging, Nigeria produces less than 20% of it's available output due to local instability, Russia is limited in it's ability to attract outside investment due to Putins unfortunate habit of seizing Western investments and handing them to his mates, whereas Venezuelas president hands them to the state instead. The only thing that will drive the price down is a reduction in the Wests dependency on cheap oil.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's about time people woke up to the fact that oil is a scarce and valuable resource. Fossil fuels are a one time geological inheritance that our species will never see again once they have been used up.
The fact that certain businessmen have chosen to make use of the material merely as an ingredient in their profit making engines is crass and demonstrates ignorance on a frightening level.
I predict future generations will look back on our epoch and it's energy profligacy, shaking their heads in much the same way as we do now when we think about the slave trade.
Spain for 99 pence (plus taxes)! Get real.
And for those people who think the problem's all down to refining capacity, allow me to introduce my good friend, Mr Ostrich.
The fact that certain businessmen have chosen to make use of the material merely as an ingredient in their profit making engines is crass and demonstrates ignorance on a frightening level.
I predict future generations will look back on our epoch and it's energy profligacy, shaking their heads in much the same way as we do now when we think about the slave trade.
Spain for 99 pence (plus taxes)! Get real.
And for those people who think the problem's all down to refining capacity, allow me to introduce my good friend, Mr Ostrich.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mystery
The demand for Oil is increasing wildly, but not because people are burning it.
The Price is twice what it was one year ago.
The value of oil has not gone up appreciably in the last year.
What happened? (Is Happening)?
What is about to happen that will right this mess for most of us?
Who is about to lose a very large investment, and in what?
Do I (You) care.
It's more fun to say it this way.
Airfoil
The Price is twice what it was one year ago.
The value of oil has not gone up appreciably in the last year.
What happened? (Is Happening)?
What is about to happen that will right this mess for most of us?
Who is about to lose a very large investment, and in what?
Do I (You) care.
It's more fun to say it this way.
Airfoil
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where its at
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is starting to read like a copy of the daily mail.
Boycotting the forecourts of BP and whoever else is going to do sweet FA. Supplying petrol to ego-centric right-wing reactionaries in middle England is a sideline of a highly diversified global business - It's a bit like boycotting the prawn sandwiches in M&S. BP right now has a market capitalisation of £118 billion, are you honestly childish enough to believe that this is a result of shafting you at the pump?
For what it's worth, oil is doing what it's doing because of a few factors.
Currency and Speculation are the two main drivers. The market is delinquent right now, and overblown (think perhaps of the last 10 years of the national obsession: house prices). Like house price rises, it is less to do with hard and fast supply and demand, but more about availability of money and the goal of profit. The delinquency comes from the fact that catalysts for price rises in the price of oil, once removed, seem not to affect the price in the opposite way. They remain in the price. Now, if you were OPEC what's the incentive to flood the market? They can't either, believe it or not, those evil guardians of our birthright can't just open the taps (remembeer Grangemouth) because aside from Saudi, there's not ever so much spare capacity. They're making great money and good for them.
What I do know is that it's better to be able to see beyond the end of ones own nose. It's not the end of the world and neither will it prove to be, once the price has fallen and the dust has settled, you'll have forgotten it. As you've already forgotten the huge gains in the price of domestic property over the last decade and are now overeacting towards current trends. As Grangemouth was going to throttle Scotland and northern England.
Finally, there is lots and lots and lots and lots or oil left. Lots. As we go forward it'll get harder and more costly to extract - because it will be deeper (Tupi or Namibia) more distant (potentially the Falklands) and heavier (our own backyard). I'll happily take bets from anyone at whatever price that nobody here is going to outlive internal combustion.
Boycotting the forecourts of BP and whoever else is going to do sweet FA. Supplying petrol to ego-centric right-wing reactionaries in middle England is a sideline of a highly diversified global business - It's a bit like boycotting the prawn sandwiches in M&S. BP right now has a market capitalisation of £118 billion, are you honestly childish enough to believe that this is a result of shafting you at the pump?
For what it's worth, oil is doing what it's doing because of a few factors.
Currency and Speculation are the two main drivers. The market is delinquent right now, and overblown (think perhaps of the last 10 years of the national obsession: house prices). Like house price rises, it is less to do with hard and fast supply and demand, but more about availability of money and the goal of profit. The delinquency comes from the fact that catalysts for price rises in the price of oil, once removed, seem not to affect the price in the opposite way. They remain in the price. Now, if you were OPEC what's the incentive to flood the market? They can't either, believe it or not, those evil guardians of our birthright can't just open the taps (remembeer Grangemouth) because aside from Saudi, there's not ever so much spare capacity. They're making great money and good for them.
What I do know is that it's better to be able to see beyond the end of ones own nose. It's not the end of the world and neither will it prove to be, once the price has fallen and the dust has settled, you'll have forgotten it. As you've already forgotten the huge gains in the price of domestic property over the last decade and are now overeacting towards current trends. As Grangemouth was going to throttle Scotland and northern England.
Finally, there is lots and lots and lots and lots or oil left. Lots. As we go forward it'll get harder and more costly to extract - because it will be deeper (Tupi or Namibia) more distant (potentially the Falklands) and heavier (our own backyard). I'll happily take bets from anyone at whatever price that nobody here is going to outlive internal combustion.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, no foreseeable shortage of oil. Problem is twofold : a) upstream, shortage of production capacity and/or unwillingness of existing producers to produce more, and b) downstream, shortage of distribution/pipeline systems to meet current demand and also refining capacity.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Age: 64
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The US will sell oil from Iraq
Iraq could have largest oil reserves in the world
Sonia Verma in Sharm el-Sheikh, The Times
Iraq dramatically increased the official size of its oil reserves yesterday after new data suggested that they could exceed Saudi Arabia’s and be the largest in the world. The Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister told The Times that new exploration showed that his country has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, with as much as 350 billion barrels. The figure is triple the country’s present proven reserves and exceeds that of Saudi Arabia’s estimated 264 billion barrels of oil. Barham Salih said that the new estimate had been based on recent geological surveys and seismic data compiled by "reputable, international oil companies . . . This is a serious figure from credible sources."...
continua / continued avanti - next [44184] [ 20-may-2008 08:02 ECT ]
Sonia Verma in Sharm el-Sheikh, The Times
Iraq dramatically increased the official size of its oil reserves yesterday after new data suggested that they could exceed Saudi Arabia’s and be the largest in the world. The Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister told The Times that new exploration showed that his country has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, with as much as 350 billion barrels. The figure is triple the country’s present proven reserves and exceeds that of Saudi Arabia’s estimated 264 billion barrels of oil. Barham Salih said that the new estimate had been based on recent geological surveys and seismic data compiled by "reputable, international oil companies . . . This is a serious figure from credible sources."...
continua / continued avanti - next [44184] [ 20-may-2008 08:02 ECT ]
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A Restless Spirit on an Endless Flight!
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Red Herrings
Reserve estimates are just that...estimates. There is a decades long history of over or under estimating oil reserves for political or economic advantage. The doubling or tripiling of reserve estimates has been done before. Saudi Arabia is a classic example.
Besides it's not really a reserve issue, it's an extraction and refinement issue. Peak oil refers not only to reserve estimates, but to production results and available supply into the marketplace.
Good luck to us all.
Besides it's not really a reserve issue, it's an extraction and refinement issue. Peak oil refers not only to reserve estimates, but to production results and available supply into the marketplace.
Good luck to us all.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not BA and haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been mentioned previously.
What will WW do with the surplus crews that will be standing around on full pay etc.? I cant see him paying out for too long before he starts looking for "volunteers" to depart.
This maybe good timing on BA's part and a shot across the bowes of BALPA. More or less saying if you go on strike we wont have to look for volunteers to take early retirement. Yes early retirement. Just because one is ex BA will not mean that most will be snapped up by another airline. The "glory days" are over for a few more decades now. In fact if you think about it, WW's timing maybe be spot on, as far as BA are concerned, come October there will probably be a large surplus of experienced pilots on all types flooding the market. So he may do the 2 together, save money by parking up a/c and the early retirement volunteers handed to him on a plate, if the strike goes ahead. Mind you I guess he would have no hesitation getting the axe out should he need to.
I am sure it wont only be BA parking a/c in the desert either, as oil will hit $200/barrel, within a year is my guess.
Just a thought.
What will WW do with the surplus crews that will be standing around on full pay etc.? I cant see him paying out for too long before he starts looking for "volunteers" to depart.
This maybe good timing on BA's part and a shot across the bowes of BALPA. More or less saying if you go on strike we wont have to look for volunteers to take early retirement. Yes early retirement. Just because one is ex BA will not mean that most will be snapped up by another airline. The "glory days" are over for a few more decades now. In fact if you think about it, WW's timing maybe be spot on, as far as BA are concerned, come October there will probably be a large surplus of experienced pilots on all types flooding the market. So he may do the 2 together, save money by parking up a/c and the early retirement volunteers handed to him on a plate, if the strike goes ahead. Mind you I guess he would have no hesitation getting the axe out should he need to.
I am sure it wont only be BA parking a/c in the desert either, as oil will hit $200/barrel, within a year is my guess.
Just a thought.
Last edited by justlooking_tks; 21st May 2008 at 04:19.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my cockpit
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading an article in the HR section of a newspaper stating the hiring of oil-industry professionals is becoming more challenging now as the technical skills are highly demanding due to the increasing difficulty in finding and digging out that precious liquid, I started thinking this is the beginning of the end of our system as we know it.
Let me explain : if oil-producing firms hardly find anyone skilled enough to pump out petrol, WHATEVER THE SALARY(!!!), this should mean this petrol IS getting extremely scarce. The number highly-qualified engineers ready to put tons of cash in their pocket should be sufficient. In fact, it is not because this task has become so complicated if not nearly impossible.
And when I link this information to the fact countries like Saudi Arabia tend to blow their figures on remaining stocks a little bit, I believe it is high time I started thinking about a future reconversion and change in life-style.
Now, who in this room is surprised with this outcome ? Everybody knows it won't last another century and our lives will change more than dramatically. And in a way, isn't it time we stopped that whole messy dependance on oil ? Look where it's taking us to : wars and pollution. We can make it a chance for an environmental revolution or it can kill our societies.
Let me explain : if oil-producing firms hardly find anyone skilled enough to pump out petrol, WHATEVER THE SALARY(!!!), this should mean this petrol IS getting extremely scarce. The number highly-qualified engineers ready to put tons of cash in their pocket should be sufficient. In fact, it is not because this task has become so complicated if not nearly impossible.
And when I link this information to the fact countries like Saudi Arabia tend to blow their figures on remaining stocks a little bit, I believe it is high time I started thinking about a future reconversion and change in life-style.
Now, who in this room is surprised with this outcome ? Everybody knows it won't last another century and our lives will change more than dramatically. And in a way, isn't it time we stopped that whole messy dependance on oil ? Look where it's taking us to : wars and pollution. We can make it a chance for an environmental revolution or it can kill our societies.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, the old "don't buy from BP" e-mail...what a crock of x.
The fact is that retail petrol operations are very far removed from the oil exploration businesses of any of the oil majors. Oil flows from the majors into refineries (often not owned by the majors), which is then distributed to the petrol stations by other companies.
The petrol stations themselves are largely franchised these days, so the only person you are hurting is the hard-working Mr Patel who owns the place.
Back to the topic...
The fact is that retail petrol operations are very far removed from the oil exploration businesses of any of the oil majors. Oil flows from the majors into refineries (often not owned by the majors), which is then distributed to the petrol stations by other companies.
The petrol stations themselves are largely franchised these days, so the only person you are hurting is the hard-working Mr Patel who owns the place.
Back to the topic...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham
Age: 60
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deserted forcourts
Whilst I believe a boycott won't work for practical reasons i.e company cars = company fuel allowances, it nonetheless focusses the 'little guy' on something. The fuel protests of 2001 only achieved a partial success due to the lorry drivers picketing oil installations. Since then fuel has tripled and we stand by, apparently helpless. Don't know about you, but I was lead to believe, the UK government takes around 85% in duties and tax so diesel at 120/lt is a pound for Golden Brown. 
Why are Emirates/Etihad/Qatar buying aircraft like gifts at a pound shop? There won't be a emirati green tax. Their access to heavy oil (processed to make kerosene) ensures that derivatives are about 10p a Gallon - retail !! Level playing field - not !!
If BA decide to do this, we'll just be flying in different colour aircraft in the future.
Why are Emirates/Etihad/Qatar buying aircraft like gifts at a pound shop? There won't be a emirati green tax. Their access to heavy oil (processed to make kerosene) ensures that derivatives are about 10p a Gallon - retail !! Level playing field - not !!
If BA decide to do this, we'll just be flying in different colour aircraft in the future.
If BA do park aircraft, and some of them are LHR based, presumably they could glean some revenue from leasing out the slots or even wet lease aircraft and slots combos to other operators (Maybe they could flog a 75 and LHR slots to the good folks in the Shannon region!)
Dose LHR operate a "Use 'em or Lose 'em" policy on slots, if so, how many do you need to miss before they get taken away from you?
JAS
Dose LHR operate a "Use 'em or Lose 'em" policy on slots, if so, how many do you need to miss before they get taken away from you?
JAS
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE ENGLAND
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its quite amazing how this thread about the proposed grounding of BA aircraft due to a fuel crisis has virtually degenerated virtually into a discussion about the oil company's, pricing, global resources and extraction technologies. Absolutely great for the National Geographic Channel but really out on a total tangent to the real purpose of this thread.
The first valid & specifically relevant point that has actually been raised seems to me to be that by Just a spotter who has raised the once very topical issue of slots at LHR, in that if BA aren't going to use them then how are they to protect them, based on smaller fleet presumably means less flights or can additional utilisation of remaining fleet cover for those aircraft laid up?
In addition then are these 'mothballed' aircraft going to remain at LHR, be dispersed at other UK sites, or indeed sent to Arizona? If the latter then does one really expect to realistically see them all return to BA service?
The first valid & specifically relevant point that has actually been raised seems to me to be that by Just a spotter who has raised the once very topical issue of slots at LHR, in that if BA aren't going to use them then how are they to protect them, based on smaller fleet presumably means less flights or can additional utilisation of remaining fleet cover for those aircraft laid up?
In addition then are these 'mothballed' aircraft going to remain at LHR, be dispersed at other UK sites, or indeed sent to Arizona? If the latter then does one really expect to realistically see them all return to BA service?