British Airways - 2
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
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No doubt that BA is financially hurting at the moment, could lead to redundancies, capacity cuts and very tight times ahead. Despite this though the liklihood of them actually going totally belly up is slim.
Da Dog,
Would that be commercially sensitive information?
I haven't noticed lots of empty seats on the international routes which interest me - oops! perhaps that's sensitive too
I believe that the very public bailing out of NR would, in the past, have been done discreetly and, outside the industry, hardly anyone would have heard of it. I don't expect my investments to be supported by public money but perhaps some organisations are too important to national esteem to be thrown to the wolves of Wall Street.
If a company is to be taken into public ownership should that not be at the price the market would pay for it at the time of aquisition or a good deal less if it is to be kept as an entity and not asset stripped?
OzzieO, Too true!
Just checked on some staff travel flights to BGI in November and the plane is virtually empty at the moment
I haven't noticed lots of empty seats on the international routes which interest me - oops! perhaps that's sensitive too
I believe that the very public bailing out of NR would, in the past, have been done discreetly and, outside the industry, hardly anyone would have heard of it. I don't expect my investments to be supported by public money but perhaps some organisations are too important to national esteem to be thrown to the wolves of Wall Street.
If a company is to be taken into public ownership should that not be at the price the market would pay for it at the time of aquisition or a good deal less if it is to be kept as an entity and not asset stripped?
OzzieO, Too true!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Edinburgh, UK
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The ones who get very emotional whenever discussing BA on here, and who get very personal, and sharp when every anyone dare criticise them.
BA are a privately owned airline registered in Britain, linking the major population centres in the UK with many, many destinations worldwide (far more than any other UK-registered airline, AFAIK)... so why can't they call themselves British Airways?
I fully understand if some people don't want to fly with them but I don't understand the hostility towards their name or towards the fact that they don't link every major UK city directly with major international destinations. They'll still get you from most major population centres in the UK to a huge range of destinations with one stop-over.
Note: I have no connection to BA, nor have I ever had any connection to BA, but, on the whole, they serve my travel needs better than any other airline in getting me from GLA/EDI to and from various destinations.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Indeed
But to fly from the 'regions' you now have to link via Eastern or FlyBe where you can, or failing that an independent. Where is the common booking agent, where is the One world ?
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Yeah, you know your airports, but any airport outside LHR in the UK and its a flight only - no BA ground staff, and as the months go by, reductions for the winter AND who knows about LGW domestic services
But to fly from the 'regions' you now have to link via Eastern or FlyBe where you can, or failing that an independent. Where is the common booking agent, where is the One world ?
Join Date: Feb 2008
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But to fly from the 'regions' you now have to link via Eastern or FlyBe where you can, or failing that an independent. Where is the common booking agent, where is the One world ?
Virgin? Not in Europe! FlyBe? Not if you want to go further than West Europe. bmi?
Join Date: Jun 2001
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If BA are in trouble (and have admitted it) one wonders how Beardy's outfit is doing. But don't worry if they are in trouble, it will not be their fault. Dickie Pickle will blame somebody else - probably BA.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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There are too many emotions and misrepresentations here.
The facts are that despite any sins (try extreme political correctness for a start,- add ageism,(from 45 most careers are effectively over), sexism (in favour of women), to mention just a few BA's management has done a pretty good job in getting it into fair shape to ride out economic hard times. Management is a very broad and maligned term.BA could not exist without its planners, provisioners, financial people, designers of product, catering etc. It just needs less of them. It also needs more efficiencies and the removal of restrictive practices which exist just as much in the air as on the ground. For example, FTLs, heavy crewing etc should be as per CAA regulations , not as per more restrictive union agreements. Rostering through Heathrow should consider it as any other airport ( ie the pilots, cabin crew and aircraft remain stay together rather than be subject of different artifical, union led constraints which lead to high but inefficient utilisation with too many nightstops and unnecessary time away from home which drive higher allowances and the requirement for higher staff numbers =union members=union subs.
On the ground similar efficiencies continue and not enough productivity and removal of long standing "Spanish practices " were achieved in the move to T5.
If everyone could now agree to operate as they would if BA were startup carrier rather than one saddled with many inefficiencies accumulated over years of deals the airline would probably be the strongest in the world. As it is it is in better shape than most, which is a good thing as there would be no government rescue if it went under.
The facts are that despite any sins (try extreme political correctness for a start,- add ageism,(from 45 most careers are effectively over), sexism (in favour of women), to mention just a few BA's management has done a pretty good job in getting it into fair shape to ride out economic hard times. Management is a very broad and maligned term.BA could not exist without its planners, provisioners, financial people, designers of product, catering etc. It just needs less of them. It also needs more efficiencies and the removal of restrictive practices which exist just as much in the air as on the ground. For example, FTLs, heavy crewing etc should be as per CAA regulations , not as per more restrictive union agreements. Rostering through Heathrow should consider it as any other airport ( ie the pilots, cabin crew and aircraft remain stay together rather than be subject of different artifical, union led constraints which lead to high but inefficient utilisation with too many nightstops and unnecessary time away from home which drive higher allowances and the requirement for higher staff numbers =union members=union subs.
On the ground similar efficiencies continue and not enough productivity and removal of long standing "Spanish practices " were achieved in the move to T5.
If everyone could now agree to operate as they would if BA were startup carrier rather than one saddled with many inefficiencies accumulated over years of deals the airline would probably be the strongest in the world. As it is it is in better shape than most, which is a good thing as there would be no government rescue if it went under.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Skylion,
RE: FTL's - BA pilots operate when the situation dictates to the CAA limits. The 1/2 hour buffer that exists within our 'agreements' are there purely as a mutually benefit to reality!
RE: Too many nightstops. Could you explain which is more efficient. Split Duties or 6 sector 2 day trips with a night stop in the middle? Also, BA chose to do the god awful o'clock departures away from base to take the fight to their competitors about a decade ago. It has proved quite fruitful in linking a lot of connecting traffic to our higher yield LH operation. Are you suggesting that BA LHR SH becomes the "no night stops, multi based" operation that it has just spent the last 10 years extricating itself from?
RE: Cabin Crew inefficiencies. Can't argue.
RE: FTL's - BA pilots operate when the situation dictates to the CAA limits. The 1/2 hour buffer that exists within our 'agreements' are there purely as a mutually benefit to reality!
RE: Too many nightstops. Could you explain which is more efficient. Split Duties or 6 sector 2 day trips with a night stop in the middle? Also, BA chose to do the god awful o'clock departures away from base to take the fight to their competitors about a decade ago. It has proved quite fruitful in linking a lot of connecting traffic to our higher yield LH operation. Are you suggesting that BA LHR SH becomes the "no night stops, multi based" operation that it has just spent the last 10 years extricating itself from?
RE: Cabin Crew inefficiencies. Can't argue.
Last edited by Right Engine; 12th Sep 2008 at 12:45.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Queeker
Bail out by the government? You must be joking. BA is not N Rock & is not located in a Labour heartland - besides which the government has no more money either!
As for the so called £1.9b in the bank - even if it exists as net cash, which I doubt, you are forgetting the 1b pension deficit.
As for the so called £1.9b in the bank - even if it exists as net cash, which I doubt, you are forgetting the 1b pension deficit.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I seriously doubt that the government would bail out BA when it would come to that... BA would likely go to the wall first (but they'd see the banks for some dosh first, or raise the 'fuel surcharge' by another 20 quid).
S.
S.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Let the banks go to the wall not BA!
Frankly the whole Northern Rock fiasco sickens me, as does the gilded cage mentality that surrounds the 'City of London' These are the very people who have speculatively driven oil prices to ludicrous levels and hurt industry and consumers, charged ludicrous sums of money to companies (such as BA etc on brokerage and advisory fees) and then pay their barrow boy workforce millions of pounds in bonuses every year.
The city and the banks are a parasite on the back of society who reap huge rewards when times are good and then are incapable of weathering the storm when things go bad due to their own poor mismanagement. As a taxpayer I say let Northern Rock go to the wall, let the banks collapse, let them make tens of thousands of overpaid gits redundant, in short let them reap what they sow like every other darned industry has to.
I have a pal who recently joined one of the big banks after a career at a leading airline. He has said to me that the profligacy and waste has to be seen to be believed and he has just had a bonus equal to half his already large annual salary - and this at a time when the banks are supposedly 'hurting' - they don't know the meaning of the word!
I'd rather see taxpayers money used to save XL than pumped into these financial institutions.
As for BA going bust, I'd say we're more likely to be swallowed up by a black hole centred on Geneva!
Desk-pilot
The city and the banks are a parasite on the back of society who reap huge rewards when times are good and then are incapable of weathering the storm when things go bad due to their own poor mismanagement. As a taxpayer I say let Northern Rock go to the wall, let the banks collapse, let them make tens of thousands of overpaid gits redundant, in short let them reap what they sow like every other darned industry has to.
I have a pal who recently joined one of the big banks after a career at a leading airline. He has said to me that the profligacy and waste has to be seen to be believed and he has just had a bonus equal to half his already large annual salary - and this at a time when the banks are supposedly 'hurting' - they don't know the meaning of the word!
I'd rather see taxpayers money used to save XL than pumped into these financial institutions.
As for BA going bust, I'd say we're more likely to be swallowed up by a black hole centred on Geneva!
Desk-pilot
. . which we are given to believe would not have happened before some, no doubt well meaning, transparency legislation was enacted.
"Aye, laddie, the road t' Hell is paved wi' guid intentions."
"Aye, laddie, the road t' Hell is paved wi' guid intentions."
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Yeah, guess your right there, only worked with BA for 11 years, saw BA Regional run into the ground in BHX, saw a bloody good franchise screwed up and 'robbed' of pax to support 'Fortress LHR'
Still, if the China cash wants to go to NQY on this small Island of mine, BA can fly them there. Or LBA for Leeds, or Derby for RR, what does BA offer that any other Airline can't
Still, if the China cash wants to go to NQY on this small Island of mine, BA can fly them there. Or LBA for Leeds, or Derby for RR, what does BA offer that any other Airline can't
I witnessed first hand London Airways systematically destroy MAN to prop up LHR and T5.
They are a disgrace to the UK, have a look at how much it costs to fly from MAN to any European destination via "The Pit" and it is extortionate, you can fly MAD - CPH for the same price as doing MAN - CPH. British Airways, don't make me laugh, they are an absolute disgrace and I would feel very sorry for some of the staff as I know there are some real decent people working for them, but I would have a smirk on my face if they went to the wall.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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based on our forecasts for the year-end, we will be burning cash at the rate of £2.6 million a day
Yes, times are undoubtedly tough, quite possibly tougher than after 11/9, but the above numbers are those that MAY apply IF NOTHING were to be done about it. The company WILL do something about it to PREVENT losses on those scales developing. In other words, the company understands the trading environment, future business trends and the impact on the company - that, to me, is a company being run in a fiscally prudent manner. Doubtless the management will try to use the trading environment to push though changes to working practises on the back of the circumstances, but one thing you can be sure of - BA WILL SURVIVE, and it won't need or receive any government money.
I'm by no means a fan of the Irish dwarf, but I will not underestimate his determination, and it is that quality that we see us through these tough days.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote,
"Letters offering the severance deals to managers on salaries between £40,000 to £250,000 are due to be sent out on September 25.
Compulsory redundancies will follow if the vast majority do not accept the offer".
My question is, will all managers getting between 40 and 250k get letters, or will the letters be only given to those who have their card marked ???
And I guess, managers outside the 40 to 250K pay range will not get a look in.
"Letters offering the severance deals to managers on salaries between £40,000 to £250,000 are due to be sent out on September 25.
Compulsory redundancies will follow if the vast majority do not accept the offer".
My question is, will all managers getting between 40 and 250k get letters, or will the letters be only given to those who have their card marked ???
And I guess, managers outside the 40 to 250K pay range will not get a look in.
Last edited by Joetom; 12th Sep 2008 at 13:52. Reason: Spellliiing...
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ex Cargo Clown, what on earth are you talking about my friend?!
Disgrace to the UK? Sure, the airline has its problems but at the end of the day, it's a business with shareholders to keep happy. If BA is "London Airways", it's because that's where the money is. They'd be foolish to stay in the regions if they could make more money elsewhere.
I'd love to see a greater BA presence around the country but at the end of the day, if it's not going to ensure me a nice dividend (which we got for the first time in many years this year) and help secure the company's future, well, it'd be foolish to be there.
Disgrace to the UK? Sure, the airline has its problems but at the end of the day, it's a business with shareholders to keep happy. If BA is "London Airways", it's because that's where the money is. They'd be foolish to stay in the regions if they could make more money elsewhere.
I'd love to see a greater BA presence around the country but at the end of the day, if it's not going to ensure me a nice dividend (which we got for the first time in many years this year) and help secure the company's future, well, it'd be foolish to be there.