Aer Lingus - 4
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Originally Posted by ryan2000
....we can't expect pay rates to be the exact same in the two parts of Ireland.
Just to reverse your logic - do you think Aer Lingus management will see it your way in a year or two when they decide to use pilots pay in Belfast as a 'benchmark' for pilots pay in Dublin? Or when they decide to transfer Belfast pilots to Dublin - on Belfast salary scales?
Do you think Mannion will simply hand the 'yellow pack' Belfast guys a payrise to move South?
He will in me arse! Where is the 'cost saving' in that?
Ergo your argument is founded on a patently false premise.
Not to mention a big dollop of pure bad mindedness!
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Originally Posted by CaptKremin
Why not?
It's a different country with different conditions & different rules.
As someone else said, whether its Belfast or Bucharest, there's absolutely no sense in a "one size fits all" approach to T&Cs. Not in an international context. If you try to accept that there is, then you may find it will be Romanian rules that get applied across Europe. Be careful what you look for!
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Tax rules are different. Pensions rules are different. Cost of living is different.
It appears no discussion of these factors has been engaged in, or offerred by Aer Lingus Management on the Belfast base. These are areas where reasonable negotiation might take place - but no, Mr.Mannion chose steam roller tactics. His intent is clear enough in his method - this is simply union busting in action.
I'm waiting for your response on how Aer Lingus Management will view the future transfer of low-pay pilots from Belfast to the Dublin base. Do you subscribe to ryan2000's remarkable inference that Aer Lingus Management will unilaterally and voluntarily recognise the (alleged) differences in living costs and increase their salaries - adding salary costs to their operation?
Incidentally, what do easy do for their crews at foreign bases?
Anyone know?
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The Times is reporting that EI have given Northern Ireland Politicians a pledge that it will consider putting on transatlantic services from Belfast ..... no wonder there are so many smiles .... 
Maybe it will move half of the Fleet up there? ....
Maybe it will move half of the Fleet up there? ....
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Don't agree
I have been on a number of transatlantic flights that have been delayed and operated nonetheless without immigration preclearance. A Shannon to Belfast and onwards routing is more marketable.
To help out the poor people in Shannon the link to Belfast would be very helpful to connect to Heathrow. If it operated either way it would be of help to them. In the past, when commerical realities seemed mere inconveniences, could you book a ticket for Belfast from Shannon?
Time to consider what Shannon's future is. Given the protectionism that is endemic in the area the only solution is to build a decent road from Limerick to Cork and problem solved. Shannon is becoming irrelevant and unless they abandon the current strategy of protectionism it will become completely irrelevant as a primary airport and become Ireland's first secondary airport. I can almost see the Ryanair rebranding as Limerick (Shannon).
To help out the poor people in Shannon the link to Belfast would be very helpful to connect to Heathrow. If it operated either way it would be of help to them. In the past, when commerical realities seemed mere inconveniences, could you book a ticket for Belfast from Shannon?
Time to consider what Shannon's future is. Given the protectionism that is endemic in the area the only solution is to build a decent road from Limerick to Cork and problem solved. Shannon is becoming irrelevant and unless they abandon the current strategy of protectionism it will become completely irrelevant as a primary airport and become Ireland's first secondary airport. I can almost see the Ryanair rebranding as Limerick (Shannon).
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CK - thanks
LITP - the Euro isn't so much a hard currency, more like a part of the male anatomy. It started out soft, got hard, but what happens when the viagra (George Bush) wears off?
LITP - the Euro isn't so much a hard currency, more like a part of the male anatomy. It started out soft, got hard, but what happens when the viagra (George Bush) wears off?
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VanBosh
yes, absolute genius on behalf of Ryanair. They have just shown the european comission that a shareholder, who is also the main competitor, is prepared to interfere in the running of AerLingus, to try and force them to remain on a route. Looks to me like grounds to force the selling of ryanair shares........absolute genius.
yes, absolute genius on behalf of Ryanair. They have just shown the european comission that a shareholder, who is also the main competitor, is prepared to interfere in the running of AerLingus, to try and force them to remain on a route. Looks to me like grounds to force the selling of ryanair shares........absolute genius.
OK, I'm a little slow on things like this, so forgive me if I have hold of the wrong end of the stick on this whole strike thing ...
From the forum and the media coverage, it seems to me that the industrial action has been called because IALPA don't want the Belfast staff to be on a contract that is "less" than that offered to Dublin et al staff BECAUSE the are afraid that staff will then be transferred from Belfast to Dublin (et al) and undermine the current packages of staff there. Do I have that right?
If that's the case, then it would appear to me, that the Adult thing for IALPA to have done was meet with EI managment, discuss their concern, if they had no satisfaction then to go on and use the industrial relations structures in place to get a ruling. Then, and only then if no guarnatees could be secured to "throw all the toys out of the pram".
But then again, I may have missed something.
JAS
From the forum and the media coverage, it seems to me that the industrial action has been called because IALPA don't want the Belfast staff to be on a contract that is "less" than that offered to Dublin et al staff BECAUSE the are afraid that staff will then be transferred from Belfast to Dublin (et al) and undermine the current packages of staff there. Do I have that right?
If that's the case, then it would appear to me, that the Adult thing for IALPA to have done was meet with EI managment, discuss their concern, if they had no satisfaction then to go on and use the industrial relations structures in place to get a ruling. Then, and only then if no guarnatees could be secured to "throw all the toys out of the pram".
But then again, I may have missed something.
JAS
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Just a spotter - you've more or less got it in one.
Going to 'war' as readily as IALPA has is plain madness and shows an extraordinary lack of industrial relations maturity.
The flying public who pay the wages will not be impressed.
There is a right way and many wrong ways in handling disputes and IALPA have messed it up big time for their members on this occasion.
Jaw Jaw is far better than War War.
Capt Kremin - Stick to commenting on the job you are trained for - and it's not industrial relations.
Going to 'war' as readily as IALPA has is plain madness and shows an extraordinary lack of industrial relations maturity.
The flying public who pay the wages will not be impressed.
There is a right way and many wrong ways in handling disputes and IALPA have messed it up big time for their members on this occasion.
Jaw Jaw is far better than War War.
Capt Kremin - Stick to commenting on the job you are trained for - and it's not industrial relations.
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Originally Posted by heidelberg
Going to 'war' as readily as IALPA has is plain madness and shows an extraordinary lack of industrial relations maturity.
It would seem though that many Aer Lingus IAPLA members are wondering where their PR machine is. IAPLA's silence on this is a bit odd.
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Jaw Jaw is far better than War War.
"Speak softly, and carry a Big Stick".
Capt Kremin - Stick to commenting on the job you are trained for - and it's not industrial relations.
Stick to your Microsoft FliteSim, and Spotters corner.
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MD - it will go soft like Sterling, but at least it will have the happy memory of being hard once. God save the Queen.
Last edited by Livinginthepast; 14th Aug 2007 at 22:40. Reason: error
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We love IALPA
IALPA are clearly going to turn this whole situation around. This is a welcome development. And why stop at delaying opening Belfast with equal conditions across the border.
Why not bring back Shannon Heathrow, bring back the Shannon stopover, re-open Foynes to the flying boats, rename Shannon airport to the original townland Rineanna, and whilst they are out on strike try the rebranding of Aer Lingus as Irish International again as we didn't try hard enough the last time.
When will management learn that the only way to progress is to leave everything as it is.
It was the same under Willie Walsh. It didn't take him too long to forget where he came from.
Why not bring back Shannon Heathrow, bring back the Shannon stopover, re-open Foynes to the flying boats, rename Shannon airport to the original townland Rineanna, and whilst they are out on strike try the rebranding of Aer Lingus as Irish International again as we didn't try hard enough the last time.
When will management learn that the only way to progress is to leave everything as it is.
It was the same under Willie Walsh. It didn't take him too long to forget where he came from.
Last edited by Livinginthepast; 14th Aug 2007 at 23:00. Reason: updated