Aer Lingus - 4

[potkettleblack]

Management are always offering to meet just to drag out things and decide upon nothing. Its a delay tactic and is used all of the time. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough. No more pointless meetings to agree on things which are then subsequently reversed at a later date through written correspondence. The insincere comment I am sure was directed at this.

[CaptKremin]

RTE reports "Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion contacted IALPA last night to say it was 'agreeable' to meeting pilots. The IMPACT union, to which IALPA is affiliated, had previously rejected an earlier offer from Aer Lingus of possible discussions as 'insincere'." Is this a true reflection of the situation?

No it isn't! Aer Lingus were asked by the Labour Court Chairman to hold talks. Mr.Mannion responded by setting down pre-conditions for the meeting, thus receiving the response quoted from IMPACT. Perfectly correct in my opinion.

I don't like IMPACT's methods.

Do you normally form opinions before you have all the facts?
Such opinions are worthless, lets face it.

[Angry Rebel]

CaptKremin

"Such opinions" seem to only be worthless if they don't agree with your own?!

[DrKev]

"Such opinions" seem to only be worthless if they don't agree with your own?!

No, he meant that such opinions are worthless because they are not based on all the available facts.

Can everyone please start paying attention to what each other are actually writing? There are too many childish spats on this topic (both here and in Rumours) because people are not paying attention and reading carefully before they post replies. Please also remember that what is reported in any one media outlet is, more often than not, incomplete. Be careful not to jump to decisions or conclusion too quickly.

[BCALBOY]

s08 BFS/LHR timetable.

I think this change to the timetable is a major blow.

The first BFS/LHR at 0845 means the business traveller is not going
to be in Central LON until around lunchtime and will also miss a lot
of connections at LHR.

Currently this will equate to BMI's 3rd departure from BHD ( altho I suspect 1 of BMI's early deps is a slot holder for a new LHL arr at LHR
ans will disapear within the next 12 mths ).

The 2130 dep fm BFS wil also be a complete dog....it connects to nothing
and for PT 2 PT who wants to arr at LHR at 2300hrs....ground transportation is closing down and you incur a nights hotac for nothing.
Maybe some VFR traffic if prices are £1.
Even Easyjet carry 30-40 psgrs on their BFSLGW at this hour.
2130 on Sat nite will be a disaster ...prob single figures.


On LHR/BFS , 0640 is too early........BMISs 0650 is onr of their weakest
deps on LHR/BHD and is often the flight with the cheapest fare.
What time would you have to get up at to make this fllight unless you live in Stanwell ( which for those of you who don-t know the area is a village on the perimeter road around LHR ). Its too early for business traffic and also too early for most connecting traffic. I can-t wait to see the Load Factor on the 040 LHR/BFS on Sundays !!!


The removal of the 2215 LHR/BFS is no great loss as it would only be
a low yield positioner , and the other timings 1050,1510,1925 are actually better than previously planned .

The other issue is the cost of the third a/c night -stopping @ LHR.
The parking charges @ LHR must be significantly more than BFS
and if this is crewed from BFS base ,I guess it means 5-6 hotel rooms every night @ LHR plus allowances which is not cheap !

The potential profitability just seems to get less and less !!!

[Livinginthepast]

Those who are pro IMPACT will blame Aer Lingus and those who are anti IMPACT will blame IMPACT. The reality is there is fault on both sides. It seems the airline with the union has strikes more often than the airline that doesn't. Is that a true relection of the situation?

I only put up the RTE quote not as my opinion but to reflect what was being reported.

I don't like IMPACT's methods. They seem to get embroiled in conflict more often than they should. That is my opinion based on my observations. I don't like them and unless they learn to moderate I don't think I could support them. It seems I have my opinion which you consider wrong and you have your opinion which I consider wrong. That doesn't really matter. Bad industrial relations hurt all in the industry and lead to poor job prospects moving forward. That is what matters.

[akerosid]

FR increase EI shareholding?

The Irish Times is reporting today that Ryanair has increased its EI shareholding to 28%.

This makes things very interesting; that's around the same as the govt's holding. Add the ESOT shares and one or two others, and FR's within shouting distance of overturning this, even without the govt's help. And if it is successful, no doubt you'll be seeing ads saying:

"FR wins back SNN-LHR link; no thanks to Bertie - fiddling while Shannon's burning" - or something along those lines.

FF's majority is not big - only about 1 or 2 seats I think; take away six Clare/ Tipp/Limerick TDs (and there's easily that number) and you'll suddenly find Bertie needs urgently to take a stance ...

[en2r]

I think this change to the timetable is a major blow.

BCALBOY
I know that the timetable isn't the best. Thats why we didn't want it. The timetable that Belfast was to have is the timetable we in Cork have at the moment. However ye still have the option of BMI or Easyjet for a morning flight to London. If EI had not reversed their decision we would have had no early morning flight to London at all. The earliest flight we could get would be the 8.10 flight to Stansted which would mean it'd be at least 10.30 by the time we'd get into London. I still think the 21.30 to Heathrow will be popular, especially at the Weekend. BMIs last flight is at 19.30. Costs of overnighting at LHR will not rise. the Shannon service is currently operated exactly the same way.

[ryan2000]

I wouldn't bet on ESOT voting to overturn this decision. Their mandate is to protect the Shares of the Aerlingus staff, not to send them into a nosedive simply to prop up the vested interest groups in the Mid West.

By the way Ryanair told the European Commission that it would have no problem in disposing of the most of the Heathrow slots if it helped it takeover Aerlingus so where's the loyalty to Shannon in that strategy.

[BCALBOY]

BFS/LHR Timetable

Yes , the consumers does have the option of an early BMI or EZY flt to LHR , and they will use this option .So from an EI point of view this is a disaster..... with relatively low frequency and poor business timings they
are going to be totally dependent on price to generate business which spells trouble for profitability.

BMI must be heaving one big sigh of relief today .


Believe me the 2130 dep will be a dog...only way to fill those seats will be to give them away...only night of the week with late demand is Sunday with week-enders returning to LHR to work on MON and I think this is too late for the last tube to Central London on a Sun.

As regards the cost of overnighting at LHR ,Hotac etc , this may be the same as SNN but the whole point of the exercise from EI's point of view is to improve profitability . Replicating whats done on SNN route on BFS
saves nothing in terms of costs and together with poor schedule affecting revenue must make the business case for the whole project a bit shaky !

[840]

The only real alternative to giving Belfast or Cork the pretty lousy Shannon slots would have been to transfer the Shannon slots to Dublin and then transfer some Dublin slots to Belfast. Dublin has two pre-8am departures, so in theory it looks possible. However, I suspect those are among the most profitable flights on the network, so that's never likely to happen.

[Aisle2c]

Aer Lingus have announced a bigger plane (I presume a 321) will operate the Cork - LHR route.

[Angry Rebel]

Picture in the Examiner this morning of yesterdays bomb hoax disrupted Malaga-Dublin flight. Looks like a A330? Are they using the 330s on short haul regularly?

[840]

In summer, it's used on Dublin-Malaga. The demand is there and you can get in a rotation to Malaga between transatlantic services.

[BFS101]

Belfast Telegraph Article

Saw this article in the Belfast Telegraph this morning, thought it made for some interesting reading.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...cle2871781.ece

This whole situation has really taken the shine and excitement out of the Aer Lingus announcement for BFS, and certainly a waiting game for those at SNN.

[DrKev]

It seems the airline with the union has strikes more often than the airline that doesn't. Is that a true relection of the situation?

That is a true but wildly incomplete version of the situation.

Here is an extract from the wikipedia article on striking...

"Occasionally, workers decide to strike without the sanction of a labor union, either because the union refuses to endorse such a tactic, or because the workers concerned are not unionized. Such strikes are often described as unofficial. Strikes without formal union authorization are also known as wildcat strikes.

In many countries, wildcat strikes do not enjoy the same legal protections as recognized union strikes, and may result in penalties for the union members who participate or their union. The same often applies in the case of strikes conducted without an official ballot of the union membership, as is required in some countries such as the United Kingdom."

So you see why companies without unions have less strikes? A non-union strike is a very rare thing and may put people at more risk. Not having a union also makes industrial relations between staff and company that much more difficult to conduct and is usually at a disadvantage to the staff. In many industries, aviation included, unions are a necessary part of everyday life that actually don't cause strikes at all but try their best to avoid them.

[ayroplain]

unions are a necessary part of everyday life that actually don't cause strikes at all but try their best to avoid them.

: lol : : lol : : lol : : lol : : lol :
Tell that to the thousands of Aer Lingus customers who were inconvenienced a few weeks ago when the staff walked off the job without any warning at Dublin because they weren't getting 1000 Euro each for a slight change of location.

[Livinginthepast]

Quote "unions are a necessary part of everyday life that actually don't cause strikes at all but try their best to avoid them"

Can anyone in all honesty suggest that IMPACT / IALPA are doing their best to try to avoid a strike? I don't believe so.

[en2r]

Tell that to the thousands of Aer Lingus customers who were inconvenienced a few weeks ago when the staff walked off the job without any warning at Dublin because they weren't getting 1000 Euro each for a slight change of location.

I couldn't agree more. Thousands of travellers inconvenienced, many missing flight connections just because the Aer Lingus check-in staff wanted €1,000 each just to move down 2 floors. You couldn't make it up

[call100]

Quote "unions are a necessary part of everyday life that actually don't cause strikes at all but try their best to avoid them"

Can anyone in all honesty suggest that IMPACT / IALPA are doing their best to try to avoid a strike? I don't believe so.

I have nothing to do with either side but fail to see your point. I know of no modern union which takes strike action lightly. I presume you have some insight into this? I take it you have been sitting in on the negotiations and are talking from a position of authority?
I wonder if AerLingus are trying very hard to resolve the argument.
Whatever the position it doesn't seem fair to me that someone should be paid less because they are based in the UK. If Aer Lingus had wanted this then why fight so hard to keep Ryan air at bay?