CARDIFF - 4
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CARDIFF - 4
Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...251111&page=20
Not really sure what they could have done to stop one of the operators tweaking routes...
The relationship between airports and airlines is a straight, consumer/supplier one. If an airline decides to fly to say Madrid from Cardiff, the airport will be happy. If they decide to stop that route the airport will be unhappy. Can the airport tell an airline where to fly? No, in the same way that my local car dealer can't tell me where to drive. They have wishlists, they have deals they can cut, but at the end of the day, if the airline decides not to go somewhere, or wants a deal that the airport can't stomach (eg RYR) then the airport has no choice but to say "route closed".
I'm sure the airport would love Rome or Lisbon, but at the end of the day, it needs an airline to propose it before the airport can talk numbers....
All the airport can do really is to impose nasty charges on someone to stop them coming....
Re Baby - nice to see that they are filling the timetable up a tad... but if all that stuff of Mathers' comes true, they will be a tad stretched based on my analysis a few pages back...
TA
the abomination that is the CWL management
The relationship between airports and airlines is a straight, consumer/supplier one. If an airline decides to fly to say Madrid from Cardiff, the airport will be happy. If they decide to stop that route the airport will be unhappy. Can the airport tell an airline where to fly? No, in the same way that my local car dealer can't tell me where to drive. They have wishlists, they have deals they can cut, but at the end of the day, if the airline decides not to go somewhere, or wants a deal that the airport can't stomach (eg RYR) then the airport has no choice but to say "route closed".
I'm sure the airport would love Rome or Lisbon, but at the end of the day, it needs an airline to propose it before the airport can talk numbers....
All the airport can do really is to impose nasty charges on someone to stop them coming....
Re Baby - nice to see that they are filling the timetable up a tad... but if all that stuff of Mathers' comes true, they will be a tad stretched based on my analysis a few pages back...
TA
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just been looking at the schedule on the BmiBaby website, and it looks like they will get rid of the over an hours downtime on the a/c in the afternoon, and then the last a/c will actually arrive earlier than in S06.
But there maybe a change in the schedule as it looks to me like some of the times are overlapping.
*******************************************************
I agree what your saying about the airlines but couldn't one way to solve this wish list is to approach an airline and say will you operate this route for us (maybe the airline operates it from another airport) and this is the deal we can give you. Also to approach the WAG and say we wan't to operate this route, what funding can you give to us.
We allready know that the WAG will throw money away hence the Cardiff Valley route that will be heavily subsidised.
*******************************************************
I was reading a post couple of days back which said that the WAG won't have enough money to build the M4 - St Athan + Cardiff Airport Road. Is this true and where could i see the article.
*******************************************************
With the consultative meeting the end of January at the airport, did anyone attend or has anyone heard of some information thats come from this? Apparently there were going to be representatives for Arriva there about possibility of adding extra trains on the route.
Cheers
Mathers
But there maybe a change in the schedule as it looks to me like some of the times are overlapping.
*******************************************************
I agree what your saying about the airlines but couldn't one way to solve this wish list is to approach an airline and say will you operate this route for us (maybe the airline operates it from another airport) and this is the deal we can give you. Also to approach the WAG and say we wan't to operate this route, what funding can you give to us.
We allready know that the WAG will throw money away hence the Cardiff Valley route that will be heavily subsidised.
*******************************************************
I was reading a post couple of days back which said that the WAG won't have enough money to build the M4 - St Athan + Cardiff Airport Road. Is this true and where could i see the article.
*******************************************************
With the consultative meeting the end of January at the airport, did anyone attend or has anyone heard of some information thats come from this? Apparently there were going to be representatives for Arriva there about possibility of adding extra trains on the route.
Cheers
Mathers
Last edited by mathers_wales_uk; 18th Feb 2007 at 18:37.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is the link- http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/south...name_page.html
The WAG cant raise the private funding for the project apparently.
Well at least all will still be able too have a nce roundabout tour.
But apparently they arent going too trunk Culverhouse Cross, so what exactly are they going too do
Smie!!!
The WAG cant raise the private funding for the project apparently.
Well at least all will still be able too have a nce roundabout tour.But apparently they arent going too trunk Culverhouse Cross, so what exactly are they going too do
Smie!!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Piper,
I don't like the mention of having a toll from the M4 to the airport either, couldn't start to imagine how much it would cost me to travle through it every day.
Mind it would be nice to see the plans for the matrix as there was also a statement saying that they deliver on what they had promised. I'm sure with the Money generated from this project there would be money available for the improvment or the roads to the airport.
Looks like another dissapointment for Cardiff Airport, seems they rather be throwing money away on building dual carriagways from Abergavenny to Hirwaun and bypasses in porth in the Rhondda. And also on this Valley to Cardiff route wich i don't think will last.
I don't like the mention of having a toll from the M4 to the airport either, couldn't start to imagine how much it would cost me to travle through it every day.
Mind it would be nice to see the plans for the matrix as there was also a statement saying that they deliver on what they had promised. I'm sure with the Money generated from this project there would be money available for the improvment or the roads to the airport.
Looks like another dissapointment for Cardiff Airport, seems they rather be throwing money away on building dual carriagways from Abergavenny to Hirwaun and bypasses in porth in the Rhondda. And also on this Valley to Cardiff route wich i don't think will last.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Wales
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The WAG cant raise the private funding for the project apparently. Well at least all will still be able too have a nce roundabout tour.
But apparently they arent going too trunk Culverhouse Cross, so what exactly are they going too do
Smie!!!
Well at least all will still be able too have a nce roundabout tour.But apparently they arent going too trunk Culverhouse Cross, so what exactly are they going too do
Smie!!!
What could be done though is a PFI initiative like the PDR in Newport where a developer funds and maintains the road and the governement pay them an annual charge for a set number of years.
However I wouldn't pay too much attention to Rhodri Morgan as he's already got one foot in the retirement home, he won't be around for long after May's elections!
MB
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi-
I thought that they were going to improve 5mile lane and hopefully link it in with the M4. I don't see how they can do this without destroying large tracks of extremely beautiful and unspoilt Vale of Glam, though, which noone seems to have mentioned.
No suprise re: the decision about not trunking the A48 through St Nicholas- I bet there are so many MPs living there that the internal phones were buzzing in the WAG ;-). Probably, this is good idea in the long term though, as it avoids pumping more traffic through Culverhouse Cross interchange.
They have to do SOMETHING with the Vale roads, however, because there is no way that they will cope with the new St Athan thing.
I still don't understand why all this is such a big deal though, because CWL still isn't the furthest away from its named town, nor does it have the worst accessibility. Many airports would give their eye teeth to have a rail link, even one as luke warm as Cardiff's.
CWL never seems to attract the confidence or agressive marketing to make current services stick + encourage other airlines. Having said that, the T-fly expansion is good, though the routes are still not as varied as from other airports. I suppose it's all a matter of the right operater turning up at the right time though- or maybe CWL is laid back and that is one of its charms in comparison with others!
Daniel
I thought that they were going to improve 5mile lane and hopefully link it in with the M4. I don't see how they can do this without destroying large tracks of extremely beautiful and unspoilt Vale of Glam, though, which noone seems to have mentioned.
No suprise re: the decision about not trunking the A48 through St Nicholas- I bet there are so many MPs living there that the internal phones were buzzing in the WAG ;-). Probably, this is good idea in the long term though, as it avoids pumping more traffic through Culverhouse Cross interchange.
They have to do SOMETHING with the Vale roads, however, because there is no way that they will cope with the new St Athan thing.
I still don't understand why all this is such a big deal though, because CWL still isn't the furthest away from its named town, nor does it have the worst accessibility. Many airports would give their eye teeth to have a rail link, even one as luke warm as Cardiff's.
CWL never seems to attract the confidence or agressive marketing to make current services stick + encourage other airlines. Having said that, the T-fly expansion is good, though the routes are still not as varied as from other airports. I suppose it's all a matter of the right operater turning up at the right time though- or maybe CWL is laid back and that is one of its charms in comparison with others!
Daniel
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well we got Rhodri Morgan for at least another two years depending on whether or no he will get re-elected in May.
By the sounds of this news report they claim that the majority of the roads will be able to cope with the increase of traffic, most probs Rhodri Morgan got so excited saying we'll have this, that and the other before he had a think and reality kicked in.
I think that the 5 mile lane is ok as it is, except needs a little widening, it's between J34 and the 5 mile lane is the problem where it's single file traffic with passes. Looks like the Miskin Parkway will be on the backburner too as that relied on links from J34.
By the sounds of this news report they claim that the majority of the roads will be able to cope with the increase of traffic, most probs Rhodri Morgan got so excited saying we'll have this, that and the other before he had a think and reality kicked in.
I think that the 5 mile lane is ok as it is, except needs a little widening, it's between J34 and the 5 mile lane is the problem where it's single file traffic with passes. Looks like the Miskin Parkway will be on the backburner too as that relied on links from J34.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South Wales
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Rumors are that Highland Airways of Scotland will operate the route.
Looks like the route could be operated by a J31"
Edit: ROUTE NOW CONFIRMED
Will be operated by Highland Airways of Inverness, 2x daily using a 36 passenger aircraft.
More information on BBC Wales website.
Regards,
Chris
Looks like the route could be operated by a J31"
Edit: ROUTE NOW CONFIRMED
Will be operated by Highland Airways of Inverness, 2x daily using a 36 passenger aircraft.
More information on BBC Wales website.
Regards,
Chris
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The really important point from baby's news is that they are retiming the BFS to make it more business-friendly.... looks like they are preparing to duff up flybe!
Good to see them fighting their pitch.
Good to see them fighting their pitch.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Wales
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If flybe fancy a scrap then they might take baby on with Glasgow which is down to a business unfriendly 1x daily.
EZY must be p
ing themselves, they've already picked up the Newcastle passengers without deep pockets and now they can cream off GLA too!
MB
EZY must be p
ing themselves, they've already picked up the Newcastle passengers without deep pockets and now they can cream off GLA too!MB
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
North-South Air link
Yet more subsidies! Yet more public money going into new CWL route development. I thought the aviation industry had moved away from this anti competitive rubbish. Government subsidies to state airlines in Europe have been stamped out. How can this be justified by the Welsh Assembly?
Airlines run on a demand/supply basis. If the demand/potential for a route exists, it will be served by some airline or other. If not, tough. CWL will just have to be content with being a small regional airport catering mainly for charter traffic. Too many people on this thread seem to think the responsibility lies with airport management to "attract" new routes. Only Twin Aisle seems to have any concept of how the airline industry works.
The truth is that it should depend on one thing only; the ability of the demographic of the catchment area to sustain a route.
Airlines run on a demand/supply basis. If the demand/potential for a route exists, it will be served by some airline or other. If not, tough. CWL will just have to be content with being a small regional airport catering mainly for charter traffic. Too many people on this thread seem to think the responsibility lies with airport management to "attract" new routes. Only Twin Aisle seems to have any concept of how the airline industry works.
The truth is that it should depend on one thing only; the ability of the demographic of the catchment area to sustain a route.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The route is purely political and I doubt many other than the AMs will use it, a gross waste of public money.
After 3 years and the loss of the subsidies i wonder how long it will last.
After 3 years and the loss of the subsidies i wonder how long it will last.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just on the news-
'The maximum fare will be £100, for the 30 minute journey on the 2xdaily service, on the 36 seater aircraft. The WAG has spent already over £1.5 million pounds (Usual waffle from Andrew Davies)'
PAX saying at Cardiff train station 'Wed love too go' (WAG staff)
So 3 years worth of subsidies to Highland air, then no service, I think so.
Then more waffle from the WAG. So does anyone know how much this will eventually cost? When this service will start? Where the aircraft will be based?
Then, at the end of that piece, someone wanted a £120,000,000 rail service comparing this cheap to air travel
I wouldnt think it was that much.
'The maximum fare will be £100, for the 30 minute journey on the 2xdaily service, on the 36 seater aircraft. The WAG has spent already over £1.5 million pounds (Usual waffle from Andrew Davies)'
PAX saying at Cardiff train station 'Wed love too go' (
WAG staff)So 3 years worth of subsidies to Highland air, then no service, I think so.
Then more waffle from the WAG. So does anyone know how much this will eventually cost? When this service will start? Where the aircraft will be based?
Then, at the end of that piece, someone wanted a £120,000,000 rail service comparing this cheap to air travel
I wouldnt think it was that much.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is an air service devised pure and simple for the AMs of the WAG and the multitude of civil servants generated by the Welsh Assembly.
Highland AW are going to be subsidised by the Weslh taxpayer, and the vast majority of the revenue from this service will be paid by the tax payer.
RAF Valley is hardly central to North Wales, which will dilute the usefulness of the route for other prospective users.
There is as has already been pointed out, the question around the validity of investing money in a venture like this, when the same investment could be put into developing public transport links that would be of far more benefit to the people of both North and South Wales, plus many other parts too.
And for 'I'd like to goo' what were they plyed on coffee or a cup of Tea???
Highland AW are going to be subsidised by the Weslh taxpayer, and the vast majority of the revenue from this service will be paid by the tax payer.
RAF Valley is hardly central to North Wales, which will dilute the usefulness of the route for other prospective users.
There is as has already been pointed out, the question around the validity of investing money in a venture like this, when the same investment could be put into developing public transport links that would be of far more benefit to the people of both North and South Wales, plus many other parts too.
And for 'I'd like to goo' what were they plyed on coffee or a cup of Tea???
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is BmiBaby actually developing from CWL?
It is all very well advertising to say they have got increased flights for faro, Jersey and Palma. Also boasting about the Belfast being moved to a more business friendly slot. But they fail to announce that this is due to a sacrifice on the Glasgow and Prague Routes.
As everyone is aware on here allready that Glasgow has been reduced to a non-business friendly once daily service but is there a reason why theres no flights available to purchase for prague after the 24th of May. Is this because their sacrificing the prague route which was very sucessful for the Murcia?
The murcia route is in the check-in system allready but the prague route has gone.
*******************************************************
North-South Route
Just looked at the North-South route news report in the BBC news website. I noticed that the BBC have been reporting that it will be on a 36 seater a/c but the Highland Airways website is saying it will be on a 19 seater a/c.
Never thought we'd get a smaller a/c than the Eastern.
******************************************************
Aviance Handling
Heard today that Aviance is to continue it's operations on the RAMP for S07, im not sure if this is confirmed yet, but what will Thomson think of that if it is true, they wanted Servisair to be a Full Handle contract. Has Thomson decided yet on who they are offering the handling contract to? I'm guessing it is Servisair and they were just putting the frighteners on them.
*****************************************************
BmiBaby A/C Tech at CWL
Three days this week and 3 BmiBaby a/c gone tech.
Monday - GODSK (5 hours tech delay)
Tuesday - GTOYA (2hrs 30 mins Tech Delay)
Wednesday - GOGBE (Returned to stand, caused 45 mins Tech Delay operating the 2001. A/C then went and problem got fixed after returning from EDI. Funny thing is GOGBE got sent to us instead of GODSK.
Nice to see a consistency in poor reliability in the fleet at the moment.
It is all very well advertising to say they have got increased flights for faro, Jersey and Palma. Also boasting about the Belfast being moved to a more business friendly slot. But they fail to announce that this is due to a sacrifice on the Glasgow and Prague Routes.
As everyone is aware on here allready that Glasgow has been reduced to a non-business friendly once daily service but is there a reason why theres no flights available to purchase for prague after the 24th of May. Is this because their sacrificing the prague route which was very sucessful for the Murcia?
The murcia route is in the check-in system allready but the prague route has gone.
*******************************************************
North-South Route
Just looked at the North-South route news report in the BBC news website. I noticed that the BBC have been reporting that it will be on a 36 seater a/c but the Highland Airways website is saying it will be on a 19 seater a/c.
Never thought we'd get a smaller a/c than the Eastern.
******************************************************
Aviance Handling
Heard today that Aviance is to continue it's operations on the RAMP for S07, im not sure if this is confirmed yet, but what will Thomson think of that if it is true, they wanted Servisair to be a Full Handle contract. Has Thomson decided yet on who they are offering the handling contract to? I'm guessing it is Servisair and they were just putting the frighteners on them.
*****************************************************
BmiBaby A/C Tech at CWL
Three days this week and 3 BmiBaby a/c gone tech.
Monday - GODSK (5 hours tech delay)
Tuesday - GTOYA (2hrs 30 mins Tech Delay)
Wednesday - GOGBE (Returned to stand, caused 45 mins Tech Delay operating the 2001. A/C then went and problem got fixed after returning from EDI. Funny thing is GOGBE got sent to us instead of GODSK.
Nice to see a consistency in poor reliability in the fleet at the moment.