BA Cityflyer

[virginblue]

...you mean a full load with max fuel? So Embraer apparently has come up with a "Embraer 190 JATO"?

[Skipness One Echo]

Given that LCY is likely to have both A318s and some ERJ-170s / 190s on the deck at once, are the above types limited to Stands 21-24 only?

If the ERJ-190 is too big for the main apron, what happens if LH or LX want to fly them in?

[Flatspin_Fumble]

virginblue,

I assume you know what an EMB 170/190 is, regarding your comment about a JATO.

[Expressflight]

According to figures I have to hand, the 'standard' E190 would have a range of 500-600nm with a full pax load off the LCY runways in ISA conditions. The BA aircraft may have performance upgrades of course.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by BAladdy

Prague would be a good fit for the leisure market and would do well year round.

Prague would not be the best choice for BA in Central Europe out of LCY, as it does not offer any onward connectional opportunities for them. Budapest would be a much better choice as fellow OneWorld carrier Malev can then provide feed and connections to all across Eastern Europe. LCY already handles quite an amount of such traffic, but it is all scooped up by Lufthansa and Swiss through their own hubs.

Prague would be a better destination out of LCY for CityJet/Air France, as they in turn could offer connections on fellow SkyTeam carrier CSA. Prague, for BA and for OneWorld, is effectively a dead end. As far as leisure traffic to Prague is concerned, much of this is more Stansted-pricing oriented, and the Stag Weekends there appear to have peaked - doubtless much to the relief of the Czechs !

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Flatspin_Fumble

virginblue,

I assume you know what an EMB 170/190 is, regarding your comment about a JATO.

I think the original comment was intended as humour. You know, a joke, something funny, which is not necessarily true...

[virginblue]

I think the original comment was intended as humour. You know, a joke, something funny, which is not necessarily true...

I think Flatspin_Fumble's remark was also lighthearted as he hinted at the fact that in a strict sense, a jet like the E170/190 is always jet-assisted at take-off I should have used "RATO" instead, but I thought "JATO" was better known (althought "JATO" is also used in the context of jets, not only props).

Anyway, it appears that without some nice rockets bolted to the wings, the E190 cannot make it to places like FCO, MAD, ARN, HEL, WAW or VIE with a full load. That is if the 500-600nm perimeter is correct.

[DutchBird-757]

Looks like 'AR' will be gone by either today or tomorrow. It's just her bare fuselage that's left and cranes were in place on saturday morning. Stands 21-24 were closed and link 'D' not available.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

Virginblue

pretty much spot on with your post.
FF

[BAladdy]

E190 LCY range

I have been trawling the internet to see if I can find in the way of info about BA's E-Jets.

I came across a news release from Embraer which says the E190's max range from LCY will be 800nm

Embraer - Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica S.A.

The E170's range is 750nm with a full load

Embraer Commercial Jets

Which is much further than I expected.

[virginblue]

750nm would still rule out destinations such as FCO and HEL. MAD, WAW or ARN would be quite a stretch and might be out of range as well.

[Expressflight]

The figures I quoted were for the AR version, for which Embraer quote a runway length required of 1,267m for a range of 500nm, while the BA order is for the SR variant. I cannot find any performance figures for the latter variant, but presumably this accounts for its greater range capability out of LCY.

[virginblue]

What improvements does the "SR" model have relative to the baseline model - other than having a steep approach button combined with a low-density layout? The engines are the same, IIRC, the structure is the same, so what exactly is the story behind it? Even Embraer has little, if any details on the "SR" in the public domain.

[marlowe]

So what is the correct figures for these aircraft on range? the RJs do MAD now, and did WAW ok with a limited load on the routes but whats the point in replacing an airframe with an airframe with less ange?

[DutchBird-757]

The current MAD route is about 815 miles. We can do it with a full load (RJ85) if there's a bit of wind. Preferebly from 10. ISA it's restricted slightly.

Don't worry about the figures just yet. As marlow said, what's the point in getting new a/c when they have less range. So I'll bet once we get the proper numbers for the SR version we'll be fine.

[DutchBird-757]

Here's another question. Will we in whatever way adjust our timetable to fit the LCY-JFK-LCY times? I pressume they (BA) would like to have some of our flights arrive or depart to match the A318. To act as a sort of feeder?

[WHBM]

For anywhere to connect through LCY to the new New York service you need cities with good business traffic, and relatively poor current connections to New York.

Unfortunately none of the current BA destinations fall into that category. The VLM points are a much better set, places like Luxembourg, Jersey, etc. But BA obviously can't do a tie-up with them any more.

[Flatspin_Fumble]

DB 757

Remember that the BA product is a 32 seat business class service, those clients who are high spending, if they wish to fly from JFK to Europe, why would they transit through LCY, they would simply fly with another carrier to their European destination, or transit through LHR T5 which is a very pleasant experience. I hope the LCY JFK route succeeds, but I am not convinced it will, after all the very market they are trying to atrract, most have gone bust or about to be locked up for a long time in the slammer.
FF

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by marlowe

So what is the correct figures for these aircraft on range? the RJs do MAD now, and did WAW ok with a limited load on the routes but whats the point in replacing an airframe with an airframe with less ange?

I'd assumed that the reason for buying a mixed fleet was simply so that there would be some aircraft (the 170s) with the range to do the long sectors like MAD/BCN etc. The operating-cost-per-seat equation doesn't really favour the smaller aircraft otherwise.

[Skipness One Echo]

I understand it's not designed to be a connecting service, it's a point to point service for the City and the Wharf and has been underwritten to an extent due to promised business from a large BA client, Barclay's.