MANCHESTER - 5
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Mr A Tis,
I have often used and still use services from LPL, when the Manchester alternative is not available/time efficient ........and I for one have not got my head in the sand....A spokesman for Manchester airport clearly stated last year when Bacon pulled off the Madrid route that they were in talks within another airline and the route would back up and running by the Winter........well by my reckoning it ain't Summer and hey no route!!!!
What business people want is Early departure late return?? correct me if i am wrong not something that is on offer I believe from Liverpool on the Madrid service as the flights are not operated daily by Ryanair, only Easyjet with an afternoon departure with an evening arrival into Madrid is daily.
just my 2p worth.
I have often used and still use services from LPL, when the Manchester alternative is not available/time efficient ........and I for one have not got my head in the sand....A spokesman for Manchester airport clearly stated last year when Bacon pulled off the Madrid route that they were in talks within another airline and the route would back up and running by the Winter........well by my reckoning it ain't Summer and hey no route!!!!
What business people want is Early departure late return?? correct me if i am wrong not something that is on offer I believe from Liverpool on the Madrid service as the flights are not operated daily by Ryanair, only Easyjet with an afternoon departure with an evening arrival into Madrid is daily.
just my 2p worth.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Mr A Tis,
You keep banging on about "the region". A region can be defined as anything you want it to be. Does it include East Midlands, Birmingham and Leeds too? Perhaps we can go for a bigger "region" and include the London Airports. As far as my travel arrangements are concerned, the only "region" which interests me is Greater Manchester (and my destination "region"). Manchester is where I live and it is where I travel from. I am no more interested in flying from Liverpool to Madrid than in flying from Cairo to Madrid ... I don't live in those cities and services from them are for the folks who do live there.
I have friends who live in Merseyside and they fly from Liverpool. That is logical. I do not live in Liverpool so I do not fly from Liverpool. That is also logical. So for my travel plans, I am not interested in what airlines offer from the "region" which I call Merseyside; they can market their wares to Liverpudlians and good luck to them. I am interested in flights from Manchester. And if flights direct from Manchester are not available then I will change planes at an en-route hub. Quite simple.
If the airlines want my business they must collect me at Manchester. If they would rather market themselves to other communities that is fine, but I will not be booking with them. Manchester and Liverpool are two very different cities and the residents of either will confirm that for you if you ask them. On this thread, I am interested in reading what services are set to be operated from Manchester; if I want to know about developments from Merseyside I will consult the Liverpool thread. The two are not interchangeable; that is why they have their own individual threads on PPRUNE.
Cheers, SHED.
You keep banging on about "the region". A region can be defined as anything you want it to be. Does it include East Midlands, Birmingham and Leeds too? Perhaps we can go for a bigger "region" and include the London Airports. As far as my travel arrangements are concerned, the only "region" which interests me is Greater Manchester (and my destination "region"). Manchester is where I live and it is where I travel from. I am no more interested in flying from Liverpool to Madrid than in flying from Cairo to Madrid ... I don't live in those cities and services from them are for the folks who do live there.
I have friends who live in Merseyside and they fly from Liverpool. That is logical. I do not live in Liverpool so I do not fly from Liverpool. That is also logical. So for my travel plans, I am not interested in what airlines offer from the "region" which I call Merseyside; they can market their wares to Liverpudlians and good luck to them. I am interested in flights from Manchester. And if flights direct from Manchester are not available then I will change planes at an en-route hub. Quite simple.
If the airlines want my business they must collect me at Manchester. If they would rather market themselves to other communities that is fine, but I will not be booking with them. Manchester and Liverpool are two very different cities and the residents of either will confirm that for you if you ask them. On this thread, I am interested in reading what services are set to be operated from Manchester; if I want to know about developments from Merseyside I will consult the Liverpool thread. The two are not interchangeable; that is why they have their own individual threads on PPRUNE.
Cheers, SHED.
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Heavens! 
.....and I thought that we could be bigoted.
Incidentally, by my reckoning it's only about 25 miles from Liverpool Airport to the outskirts of Greater Manchester......mostly by motorway!
.....and I thought that we could be bigoted.
Incidentally, by my reckoning it's only about 25 miles from Liverpool Airport to the outskirts of Greater Manchester......mostly by motorway!
Join Date: Sep 2002
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ESCNI,
Why do you mention the distance by motorway between Manchester and Liverpool? It does not make them the same place; rather it confirms that they are not the same place which is my point. What is bigoted about pointing out that Liverpool and Manchester are not the same place? They are not. That's just the way it is.
And motorways are not the answer for everybody. I choose not to run a car. I believe that if I decided to walk down this convenient motorway to Liverpool which you refer to I could expect to be arrested or run over. It is dangerous to generalise when it comes to identifying a business market.
Please enlighten me as to why it is bigoted to point out that MAN and LPL Airports serve different cities. They just do!
Cheers, SHED.
Why do you mention the distance by motorway between Manchester and Liverpool? It does not make them the same place; rather it confirms that they are not the same place which is my point. What is bigoted about pointing out that Liverpool and Manchester are not the same place? They are not. That's just the way it is.
And motorways are not the answer for everybody. I choose not to run a car. I believe that if I decided to walk down this convenient motorway to Liverpool which you refer to I could expect to be arrested or run over. It is dangerous to generalise when it comes to identifying a business market.
Please enlighten me as to why it is bigoted to point out that MAN and LPL Airports serve different cities. They just do!
Cheers, SHED.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I think people are forgetting something, especially Mr A Tis. What about the people in Oldam, Rochdale etc? It certainly isn't 25 miles to LPL from there and LBA/DSA don't offer the destinations that are on offer from LPL as an alternative to MAN. Yes, it is ok if you live in St. Helens, Warrington etc. where there is a choice for both but MAN is and always will be, the main airport.
I find it hard to believe that a service to the Spanish capital won't work where Barcelona region has 3x daily BCN and soon to be 18x weekly GRO from the region. You say that EZY/FR won't use same routes from both airports, please explain: GRO (FR - MAN, LPL, BLK), BGY (FR - MAN, LPL), DUB (MAN, LPL, BLK), SNN (MAN, LPL), AGP (EZY - MAN, LPL) or are we jus ignoring them? The reason these routes are working is that they have DEMAND. And other routes will also be able to work becuase not everyone lives between LPL and MAN! There is East of MAN!
I find it hard to believe that a service to the Spanish capital won't work where Barcelona region has 3x daily BCN and soon to be 18x weekly GRO from the region. You say that EZY/FR won't use same routes from both airports, please explain: GRO (FR - MAN, LPL, BLK), BGY (FR - MAN, LPL), DUB (MAN, LPL, BLK), SNN (MAN, LPL), AGP (EZY - MAN, LPL) or are we jus ignoring them?
The reason these routes are working is that they have DEMAND. And other routes will also be able to work becuase not everyone lives between LPL and MAN! There is East of MAN!
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Latest CAA Survey shows 800,000 passengers per annum going to and from Manchester use Liverpool Airport for flights, many coming from North Manchester.
Most cities Manchester's size have 2 airports, the second being 45 minutes or so away (often the first too). Manchester users have 2 airports close by, and Liverpool/Merseyside users also of course have 2 airports close by. I live in Manchester and tend to use both, so what. To think that when we talk airports for Manchester then we have to only discuss one airport is as parochial a view as i have read in a long time.
Most cities Manchester's size have 2 airports, the second being 45 minutes or so away (often the first too). Manchester users have 2 airports close by, and Liverpool/Merseyside users also of course have 2 airports close by. I live in Manchester and tend to use both, so what. To think that when we talk airports for Manchester then we have to only discuss one airport is as parochial a view as i have read in a long time.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Symphonyangel and All,
Parochialism is not the issue here. This thread is called "Manchester". There is another thread called "Liverpool". There is a reason for that. This thread is for discussion of flights from Manchester Airport. I happen to read the Liverpool thread quite frequently, and I no more want to read about MAN services on there than I wish to read postings about LPL services on here. Many folks from both Manchester and Liverpool travel from Heathrow. Do you propose therefore that we should discuss all of Heathrow's services on here when it has got a thread of its own?
For the record - since there appears to be some misunderstanding - I am happy to confirm that I view Liverpool as one of the World's great cities. Pay it a visit in its 2008 Year of Culture and you will surely not be disappointed. There are special events going on, and of course all the old favourites (Waterfront, Three Graces, Albert Dock, Mersey Ferries, Cathedrals, Museums etc) are available as usual. I freely acknowledge that I enjoy taking days out in Liverpool. But what Liverpool is NOT is a convenient start point for a journey from the Manchester area to Continental Europe! Liverpool - wonderful as it is - just ain't on the way from Manchester to Paris! If I am visiting Liverpool I will book my travel arrangements from Liverpool - but if I'm not then obviously I won't! That's not 'parochial' or 'territorial' ... it's just practical.
If in doubt, please read again my original posting on this topic. In no way do I propose any kind of "my city is better than yours" debate. That is not the issue and has no place here. My point relates to the definition of catchment areas and to the selection of a convenient departure point for air travel. Quite simply, Manchester and Liverpool are both fine cities (no argument!). But the same place they are not. So let's keep postings about Liverpool flights in the "Liverpool" thread, postings about Manchester flights in the "Manchester" thread, and likewise for Birmingham, Leeds, East Midlands, Heathrow and so on. Then we will all know where to look for RELEVANT information (without implying dislike for airports which don't belong outside their own threads).
Now then. Would anybody like to discuss Manchester Airport issues on this 'Manchester' thread?
Cheers, SHED.
Parochialism is not the issue here. This thread is called "Manchester". There is another thread called "Liverpool". There is a reason for that. This thread is for discussion of flights from Manchester Airport. I happen to read the Liverpool thread quite frequently, and I no more want to read about MAN services on there than I wish to read postings about LPL services on here. Many folks from both Manchester and Liverpool travel from Heathrow. Do you propose therefore that we should discuss all of Heathrow's services on here when it has got a thread of its own?
For the record - since there appears to be some misunderstanding - I am happy to confirm that I view Liverpool as one of the World's great cities. Pay it a visit in its 2008 Year of Culture and you will surely not be disappointed. There are special events going on, and of course all the old favourites (Waterfront, Three Graces, Albert Dock, Mersey Ferries, Cathedrals, Museums etc) are available as usual. I freely acknowledge that I enjoy taking days out in Liverpool. But what Liverpool is NOT is a convenient start point for a journey from the Manchester area to Continental Europe! Liverpool - wonderful as it is - just ain't on the way from Manchester to Paris! If I am visiting Liverpool I will book my travel arrangements from Liverpool - but if I'm not then obviously I won't! That's not 'parochial' or 'territorial' ... it's just practical.
If in doubt, please read again my original posting on this topic. In no way do I propose any kind of "my city is better than yours" debate. That is not the issue and has no place here. My point relates to the definition of catchment areas and to the selection of a convenient departure point for air travel. Quite simply, Manchester and Liverpool are both fine cities (no argument!). But the same place they are not. So let's keep postings about Liverpool flights in the "Liverpool" thread, postings about Manchester flights in the "Manchester" thread, and likewise for Birmingham, Leeds, East Midlands, Heathrow and so on. Then we will all know where to look for RELEVANT information (without implying dislike for airports which don't belong outside their own threads).
Now then. Would anybody like to discuss Manchester Airport issues on this 'Manchester' thread?
Cheers, SHED.
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Latest CAA Survey shows 800,000 passengers per annum going to and from Manchester use Liverpool Airport for flights, many coming from North Manchester.
Most cities Manchester's size have 2 airports, the second being 45 minutes or so away (often the first too). Manchester users have 2 airports close by, and Liverpool/Merseyside users also of course have 2 airports close by. I live in Manchester and tend to use both, so what. To think that when we talk airports for Manchester then we have to only discuss one airport is as parochial a view as i have read in a long time.
Most cities Manchester's size have 2 airports, the second being 45 minutes or so away (often the first too). Manchester users have 2 airports close by, and Liverpool/Merseyside users also of course have 2 airports close by. I live in Manchester and tend to use both, so what. To think that when we talk airports for Manchester then we have to only discuss one airport is as parochial a view as i have read in a long time.
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Most cities Manchester's size have 2 airports, the second being 45 minutes or so away (often the first too). Manchester users have 2 airports close by, and Liverpool/Merseyside users also of course have 2 airports close by. I live in Manchester and tend to use both, so what. To think that when we talk airports for Manchester then we have to only discuss one airport is as parochial a view as i have read in a long time
So we have Three airports....no Blackpool is less than 45mins away from [parts of] Greater Manchester, so we [Manchester] by your criteria have Four Airports....yeah, right
Folks who are able to travel [to a different Airport] will
Those who can't...won't
It's not a willy waving contest.....
it's a choice for the consumer. Every Airport has its stregnths and weaknesses. which I am not going to air here.
In the NorthWest of England, we are very lucky to have such a choice of Airlines...so,
let's stick to the threads, please
watp,iktch
Last edited by chiglet; 10th Jan 2008 at 17:48. Reason: spleeing
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Best at...
MAN: Long haul, full service, charter and regional
LPL: LCC
BLK: Bucket and spade
Simple.
As chiglet says, all three airports have their own 'style' if we can put it that way.
Now lets get back to what this thread is about - Manchester and Manchester alone. Any WW news soon?
MAN: Long haul, full service, charter and regional
LPL: LCC
BLK: Bucket and spade
Simple.
As chiglet says, all three airports have their own 'style' if we can put it that way.
Now lets get back to what this thread is about - Manchester and Manchester alone. Any WW news soon?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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C0
Lets do C0 first.
WAW now on sale at last but down to three per week 2 4 6. They are clearly intended to fit in with the GDN flights but based on the timetable they don't at least in the morning
Flight arrives from GDN at 0820 the flight back to WAW is at 0715.
Return from WAW is 1300 and flight back to GDN at 1345 .
To fit in the flight fron GDN would have to arrive at 0630 or thereabouts to work.
Viscount
WAW now on sale at last but down to three per week 2 4 6. They are clearly intended to fit in with the GDN flights but based on the timetable they don't at least in the morning
Flight arrives from GDN at 0820 the flight back to WAW is at 0715.
Return from WAW is 1300 and flight back to GDN at 1345 .
To fit in the flight fron GDN would have to arrive at 0630 or thereabouts to work.
Viscount
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I reckon this is what bmibaby were waiting to find out. In typical bmi fashion, they love to air on the side of caution and I'm certain they won't launch MAN-WAW now, which according to some posters on here was one of their options. I think bmibaby will sit tight for a bit & see what everyone else is doing. They're leaving it a little late for summer though if they pause for much longer.
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At the time of the R2 planning enquiry it was said that 6million (out of the MAN figures) air journeys would be better served from Liverpool Airport.
What you ommitted to add was that the Government white paper on the matter discarded the claim completely out of hand.
Stoney
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In the past US have done short runs of downgrading to 762 ops on the MAN route, one stint was as recently as last year IIRC.
Not sure if this has usually been to do with some 330's being out of action for maintenance or just to cover lower demand on the route at certain times of the year.
Not sure if this has usually been to do with some 330's being out of action for maintenance or just to cover lower demand on the route at certain times of the year.
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US to reduce PHL equipment from A330-300 to B757-200!
...but only for 26 days (04/10/2008-30/10/2008)!
Anybody know why?
...but only for 26 days (04/10/2008-30/10/2008)!
Anybody know why?
And it's only PHL, so is a 752 really a big deal to the punters on such a "short" TATL ?
Stoney
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Chiglet scribes in his own unique style
Spot on, and agree totally with Shed also. 
These threads are airport specific for a reason.
I suggest we keep it that way or risk having the Mods save bandwidth by dumping us all in one (un) happy thread stream.
Stoney
Errrm, from North East Manchester, LEEDS falls into the 45min category
So we have Three airports....no Blackpool is less than 45mins away from [parts of] Greater Manchester, so we [Manchester] by your criteria have Four Airports....yeah, right
Folks who are able to travel [to a different Airport] will
Those who can't...won't
It's not a willy waving contest..... it's a choice for the consumer.
Every Airport has its stregnths and weaknesses. which I am not going to air here.
In the NorthWest of England, we are very lucky to have such a choice of Airlines...so,
let's stick to the threads, please
So we have Three airports....no Blackpool is less than 45mins away from [parts of] Greater Manchester, so we [Manchester] by your criteria have Four Airports....yeah, right
Folks who are able to travel [to a different Airport] will
Those who can't...won't
It's not a willy waving contest..... it's a choice for the consumer.
Every Airport has its stregnths and weaknesses. which I am not going to air here.
In the NorthWest of England, we are very lucky to have such a choice of Airlines...so,
let's stick to the threads, please
These threads are airport specific for a reason.
I suggest we keep it that way or risk having the Mods save bandwidth by dumping us all in one (un) happy thread stream.
Stoney
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The specific reason the mods have given each airport its own thread to make it easier to find out what is happening where. No problem. But this is absolutely nothing to do with implied catchment areas or a suggestion on the part of PPrune that there isn't competitive interaction between airports and it should never be seen as a green light to censor or inhibit sensible, adult debate about the commercial & business developments with regard to airport management and airline route development. It is completely preposterous to suggest you can have a sensible discussion about some aspects of the route network at MAN without due consideration to what is happening with other airlines and other airports. You can pretend all you want that one airport serves one area and the other serves another, but no-one responsible for airline fleet deployment, route and revenue management or airport business development thinks like that. So why should anyone on here who wants to get a better understanding of how the business works choose to think in that way? In fact it is very odd behaviour as it seems that many posters demonstrate little if any experience of route development or revenue management but on other otherhand are extremely interested in what route planners and revenue managers have in store for MAN. If cabin crew, ATC, security, ground agents or plane spotters want to educate themselves on how and why airlines choose MAN or choose somewhere else then thinking "only mention MAN in the MAN thread" will get you nowhere fast.
Debate about a MAD service is a classic example. People ask questions to the point of obsession about whether this route will operate from MAN but then want a censored answer that completely ignores the capacity being offered from another airport in close proximity. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.
This whole sorry episode reminds me of the film quote;
Nicholson: "You want answers?!!"
Cruise: "I want the truth!!"
Nicholson:"You can't HANDLE the truth..!!"
It would be like trying to respond to a question on the LPL thread asking "would Emirates consider a LPL-DXB service?" with the shackles of not being able to make any reference to the twice daily MAN-DXB service.
Debate about a MAD service is a classic example. People ask questions to the point of obsession about whether this route will operate from MAN but then want a censored answer that completely ignores the capacity being offered from another airport in close proximity. I can't think of anything more ridiculous.
This whole sorry episode reminds me of the film quote;
Nicholson: "You want answers?!!"
Cruise: "I want the truth!!"
Nicholson:"You can't HANDLE the truth..!!"
It would be like trying to respond to a question on the LPL thread asking "would Emirates consider a LPL-DXB service?" with the shackles of not being able to make any reference to the twice daily MAN-DXB service.