SOUTHEND - 2
Phileas,
Your logic looks reasonable, but why would an operator of "CRJ, AvroRJ, Fokker/Embraer regional jets" risk SEN as its London terminus when LCY has a much more affluent, closer and larger catchment?
I realize that it is slot-restricted and expensive, but the expense would be offset by higher fares, and slots are presumably available outside peak times (and what would peak times be at Southend?).
Your logic looks reasonable, but why would an operator of "CRJ, AvroRJ, Fokker/Embraer regional jets" risk SEN as its London terminus when LCY has a much more affluent, closer and larger catchment?
I realize that it is slot-restricted and expensive, but the expense would be offset by higher fares, and slots are presumably available outside peak times (and what would peak times be at Southend?).
Phileas
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if/when Easyjet make an announcement. I do agree with you on your second point and several of those sorts of route are at the late planning stage.
LGS6753
As you say, the greater expense of using LCY is offset by higher fares. That surely would give other operators a competitive edge by using SEN, where the lower costs (including reduced flight times) would allow lower fares to be offered. The problem with LCY only having slots available off-peak is that many routes demand peak-time scheduling for the London inbound market, so SEN becomes a viable alternative for early morning and late afternoon arrivals/departures, whose peak times will be the same as for LCY.
There is also, of course, considerable catchment area overlap between LCY & SEN. For a number of smaller European carriers, while LCY may be ideal theoretically, SEN is now starting to be viewed as a very acceptable alternative London arrival point.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if/when Easyjet make an announcement. I do agree with you on your second point and several of those sorts of route are at the late planning stage.
LGS6753
As you say, the greater expense of using LCY is offset by higher fares. That surely would give other operators a competitive edge by using SEN, where the lower costs (including reduced flight times) would allow lower fares to be offered. The problem with LCY only having slots available off-peak is that many routes demand peak-time scheduling for the London inbound market, so SEN becomes a viable alternative for early morning and late afternoon arrivals/departures, whose peak times will be the same as for LCY.
There is also, of course, considerable catchment area overlap between LCY & SEN. For a number of smaller European carriers, while LCY may be ideal theoretically, SEN is now starting to be viewed as a very acceptable alternative London arrival point.
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LSG,
Well for an 'out of towner' to travel to/from LCY by surface can be a pain in the butt and if SEN prices, both to the operator and the passengers, might be cheaper than LCY, which can't take too much traffic due to the size of the place, then why should LCY maintain any monopoly?
I was referring, by those aircraft types, to such operators as KLM, Lufty, Swiss, Air France, SAS, Austrian etc.
Operators like to develop routes, i.e. they start off a route with smaller aircraft in hope that it will develop to larger aircraft ..... one can't do too much developing in/out of LCY!
Well for an 'out of towner' to travel to/from LCY by surface can be a pain in the butt and if SEN prices, both to the operator and the passengers, might be cheaper than LCY, which can't take too much traffic due to the size of the place, then why should LCY maintain any monopoly?
I was referring, by those aircraft types, to such operators as KLM, Lufty, Swiss, Air France, SAS, Austrian etc.
Operators like to develop routes, i.e. they start off a route with smaller aircraft in hope that it will develop to larger aircraft ..... one can't do too much developing in/out of LCY!
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Does anybody local to SEN know what the story is with the new train station. It's all very well to say theres 8 trains to London etc, but to have the National Rail website still not showing times for SEN is fustrating to say the least.
It's now 2 return trips to Ireland I've booked where I coulden't even consider SEN. Just diden't want to risk landing next Monday night to start a cross London trek only to find the station doors locked...
It's now 2 return trips to Ireland I've booked where I coulden't even consider SEN. Just diden't want to risk landing next Monday night to start a cross London trek only to find the station doors locked...
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At present the new railway station is about half a mile from the current terminal building, and shuttle buses will be needed to transport passengers from the current terminal. However there has been a slight delay to the opening of the new station, so the shuttle buses will initially go to Rochford station which is only 1 1/2 miles away.
The new station should be open very shortly (certainly before the summer), which is directly in front of the new terminal which is still on target to open on October 1st.
I admit the current situation is less than perfect, but the whole experience should be no worse than at Luton, with the far shorter processing times at Southend. At least the shuttle buses are free, unlike Luton.
The new station should be open very shortly (certainly before the summer), which is directly in front of the new terminal which is still on target to open on October 1st.
I admit the current situation is less than perfect, but the whole experience should be no worse than at Luton, with the far shorter processing times at Southend. At least the shuttle buses are free, unlike Luton.
As Airferries says, even the airport station will need a shuttle bus transfer until October when the new terminal opens so the use of Rochford station won't add more than about 10 minutes to getting onto the train. Mind you, they need to make sure pax planning to use the train know what the procedure is for the time being.
The two shuttle buses were delivered to SEN yesterday by the way.
The two shuttle buses were delivered to SEN yesterday by the way.
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Southend
Surely it is a little premature to expect to hear whether Easyjet will operate from SEN, as although the runway extension has been agreed by the cuncil and the government work has not started on the actual extension, only on related works, and to refurbish the existing runway, which now has a new surface and centreline lighting, and I believe local protestors have unfortunately won the right to a public enquiry into the road closure and/or diversion which is to take place to enable the extension to be completed.
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PF:
No bee, and no grudge, just a concern that some people seem to get lured away from the facts as soon as low-cost operators are mentioned. Take Expressflight's point that
then look at the shortest runways they operate from in the UK:
Aberdeen TODA 2030 and 2040
Inverness TODA 1970 and 2037
Isle of Man TODA 2057 and 2815
Belfast City TODA 1917 and 2029
Then look at Southend's 1799 and 1799.
And in case you might still regard this as some kind of grudge against Southend, let me say that I think they can still attract commercial services with smaller aircraft - twin turboprops, E175 etc.
NS
NorthSouth does seem to have a bee in his bonnet, a grudge to bear
Easyjet regard a TODA of 1,800m as their minimum for normal operations
Aberdeen TODA 2030 and 2040
Inverness TODA 1970 and 2037
Isle of Man TODA 2057 and 2815
Belfast City TODA 1917 and 2029
Then look at Southend's 1799 and 1799.
And in case you might still regard this as some kind of grudge against Southend, let me say that I think they can still attract commercial services with smaller aircraft - twin turboprops, E175 etc.
NS
NS
I don't actually see that quoting a few TODAs in excess of 1,799m from which Easyjet currently operate negates the possibility of them operating from SEN's extended runway.
If someone comes on here who really knows if that is insufficient to meet their SOP requirements then I'll take notice.
As LEWIS APPLEBY says, let's not expect them to make any announcement until there is certainty on when the extended runway will be finished. The road 'stopping up' Public Inquiry is expected to last just a couple of days in May and shouldn't be a major problem. The local opposition group's Judicial Review hearing is scheduled for 6th April I believe.
I don't actually see that quoting a few TODAs in excess of 1,799m from which Easyjet currently operate negates the possibility of them operating from SEN's extended runway.
If someone comes on here who really knows if that is insufficient to meet their SOP requirements then I'll take notice.
As LEWIS APPLEBY says, let's not expect them to make any announcement until there is certainty on when the extended runway will be finished. The road 'stopping up' Public Inquiry is expected to last just a couple of days in May and shouldn't be a major problem. The local opposition group's Judicial Review hearing is scheduled for 6th April I believe.
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Regardless of who the operator may be an A319 will be able to operate in/out of the planned new SEN, larger aircraft operate in/out of shorter runways around Europe, whether SEN's aircraft will be painted in an orange & white livery remains to be seen and something I, personally, have my doubts regarding.
NorthSouth ..... With your wealth of knowledge are you categorically stating that, let us say, a Spanish operator will not be able to operate an Airbus or a Boeing PMI/SEN/PMI and/or BCN/SEN/BCN etc?
NorthSouth ..... With your wealth of knowledge are you categorically stating that, let us say, a Spanish operator will not be able to operate an Airbus or a Boeing PMI/SEN/PMI and/or BCN/SEN/BCN etc?
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PF:
All depends on their willingness to accept performance limitations. There are of course some examples e.g. Spanair A320s operating out of Southampton. In addition to the runway length Southend has quite a few obstacles under the climb-outs from both runways which are likely to be a factor.
NS
are you categorically stating that, let us say, a Spanish operator will not be able to operate an Airbus or a Boeing PMI/SEN/PMI and/or BCN/SEN/BCN etc?
NS
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PF:
That was a throw-away comment but it was specifically about claims that Easyjet were about to move into Southend. As you have said yourself:
so I don't see there is much disagreement between us.
Of course if you make it light enough an Airbus or any other aircraft can get into all sorts of short runways (including the current Southend, when coming in empty for maintenance, painting etc). But the question is whether you can operate with an economically viable payload.
NS
Are you withdrawing, then, your earlier critism(s) something to do with rockets being required for an Airbus, or similar, to operate out of SEN
whether SEN's aircraft will be painted in an orange & white livery remains to be seen and something I, personally, have my doubts regarding
Of course if you make it light enough an Airbus or any other aircraft can get into all sorts of short runways (including the current Southend, when coming in empty for maintenance, painting etc). But the question is whether you can operate with an economically viable payload.
NS