SOUTHEND - 2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
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NorthSouth,
My personal opinion is based on commercial reasons, your personal opinion is based on, exaggerated, operational reason whereas you make throw away comment(s) that a (full of pax) Airbus will need rockets to get airborne out of the planned new SEN.
My personal opinion is based on commercial reasons, your personal opinion is based on, exaggerated, operational reason whereas you make throw away comment(s) that a (full of pax) Airbus will need rockets to get airborne out of the planned new SEN.
I had hoped that someone could provide SEN runway specific data for the A319, but no such luck it seems. Rather belatedly I have managed to access the A319 Airplane Characteristics document on the Airbus website. The A319 take off performance charts here are somewhat vague in that they refer only to “runway length” and there is an anomaly in that the ISA+15 figures appear less restrictive than the ISA figures. Have the charts been transposed ? Or do the figures refer to variants operating to different maximum thrust levels ? It is not clear.
However, even with these caveats there is useful guidance here. Enter a runway length of 1750m and pressure altitude of 1000ft (a very conservative figure for SEN in summer) and we find that:
At ISA the maximum take off weight, performance limited, is 69.5 tonnes.
At ISA+15 the maximum take off weight, performance limited, is 71.3 tonnes.
Both approximate and not forgetting the anomaly above.
Reduce the runway length to 1500m (as an arbitrary artificial means of allowing for factors that we cannot properly evaluate) and these figures become 66.8T and 68.6T. That is another very conservative assumption.
Now look at the maximum certificated take off weights. The EZY aircraft are mainly 64T,though I understand some are 68T. BA A319s operate to 68T. In other words the 64T aircraft will not be performance weight restricted at SEN, the 68T version may also be unrestricted. So payload/range considerations are a function of aircraft type variant, not the runway.
The second segment climb may or may not be more restrictive than the other parameters such as TODA or max certificated TOW. It can only be evaluated by running the data. The most limiting of the parameters can change with differing ambient conditions and different TOWs. The operators' "performance engineers" can have various ways of alleviating the effects if necessary, such as scheduling an emergency turn.
And if a company really has a policy of operating only from greater than 1800m TODA but it considers it commercially attractive to operate from the 1799m declared at SEN, then a pragmatic solution to the missing 1 metre should surely present itself, especially as the “real” TODA is well in excess of 1800m.
It seems to me entirely reasonable that EZY should have looked at SEN and considered their options. Whether they decide to go ahead will be I suspect a commercial decision based on macroeconomic factors especially the UK economy, and company specific issues, such as the desirability or otherwise of establishing a new south east UK operation.
I have no view on the outcome. It is however clear enough that the extended runway at SEN will support a good portfolio of European routes by medium size aircraft.
,
However, even with these caveats there is useful guidance here. Enter a runway length of 1750m and pressure altitude of 1000ft (a very conservative figure for SEN in summer) and we find that:
At ISA the maximum take off weight, performance limited, is 69.5 tonnes.
At ISA+15 the maximum take off weight, performance limited, is 71.3 tonnes.
Both approximate and not forgetting the anomaly above.
Reduce the runway length to 1500m (as an arbitrary artificial means of allowing for factors that we cannot properly evaluate) and these figures become 66.8T and 68.6T. That is another very conservative assumption.
Now look at the maximum certificated take off weights. The EZY aircraft are mainly 64T,though I understand some are 68T. BA A319s operate to 68T. In other words the 64T aircraft will not be performance weight restricted at SEN, the 68T version may also be unrestricted. So payload/range considerations are a function of aircraft type variant, not the runway.
The second segment climb may or may not be more restrictive than the other parameters such as TODA or max certificated TOW. It can only be evaluated by running the data. The most limiting of the parameters can change with differing ambient conditions and different TOWs. The operators' "performance engineers" can have various ways of alleviating the effects if necessary, such as scheduling an emergency turn.
And if a company really has a policy of operating only from greater than 1800m TODA but it considers it commercially attractive to operate from the 1799m declared at SEN, then a pragmatic solution to the missing 1 metre should surely present itself, especially as the “real” TODA is well in excess of 1800m.
It seems to me entirely reasonable that EZY should have looked at SEN and considered their options. Whether they decide to go ahead will be I suspect a commercial decision based on macroeconomic factors especially the UK economy, and company specific issues, such as the desirability or otherwise of establishing a new south east UK operation.
I have no view on the outcome. It is however clear enough that the extended runway at SEN will support a good portfolio of European routes by medium size aircraft.
,
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Tagron,
Google identified this:
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-293041.html
The A319, well ours at easyjet are about 41000 kg dry operating weight, thats with 156 seats, so with a different seating capacity that would be lower.
I appreciate that Tagron was answering to an ongoing disagreement but you guys do need to get away from a specific aircraft type operated by a specific operator, has this rumour emerged from the operator themselves then I'd expect it to have been followed up upon by now, I'd speculate this rumour was started by an over enthusiastic aircraft spotter and/or SEN airport worker.
There are small to medium size Airbus's, small to medium size Boeings, I understand B757's to have operated in/out of SOU before now, there are these Embraer regionals to be operating Scotland to/from Greek Islands, so Spain/Portugal would be a walk in the park, there are so many different opportunities for SEN to develop so, PLEASE, move on from A319's
Google identified this:
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-293041.html
The A319, well ours at easyjet are about 41000 kg dry operating weight, thats with 156 seats, so with a different seating capacity that would be lower.
I appreciate that Tagron was answering to an ongoing disagreement but you guys do need to get away from a specific aircraft type operated by a specific operator, has this rumour emerged from the operator themselves then I'd expect it to have been followed up upon by now, I'd speculate this rumour was started by an over enthusiastic aircraft spotter and/or SEN airport worker.
There are small to medium size Airbus's, small to medium size Boeings, I understand B757's to have operated in/out of SOU before now, there are these Embraer regionals to be operating Scotland to/from Greek Islands, so Spain/Portugal would be a walk in the park, there are so many different opportunities for SEN to develop so, PLEASE, move on from A319's
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
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Southend Airport - archive footage
Good luck to SEN and the new flights starting today. Here's some archive footage of the airport in the 50's and late 60's for those that are interested:
What were loads like on the new Arann services ?
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Very good for the first day of service.
Waterford flights inbound and outbound for today have 66 - 70 on all of them today. (70 full flight)
Galway is more less the same but tonights Southend - Galway has less.
Very few seats left on Luton flights. Most flights are sold out until early May.
Waterford flights inbound and outbound for today have 66 - 70 on all of them today. (70 full flight)
Galway is more less the same but tonights Southend - Galway has less.
Very few seats left on Luton flights. Most flights are sold out until early May.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Spreading a bit more BS there Jamie how can the flights have between 66-70 on each when EI-EHH is the aircraft operating the routes??
Join Date: May 2005
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Tried to look up arrivals and departures on the SEN website last night and couldn't find it-had to look at the Irish web sites to check flight status. Did I miss it or isn't it there?
LTN-GWY had SLN on it yesterday so I take it the GWY was a '72 and WAT a '42?:
LTN-GWY had SLN on it yesterday so I take it the GWY was a '72 and WAT a '42?:
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Very good for the first day of service.
Waterford flights inbound and outbound for today have 66 - 70 on all of them today. (70 full flight)
Waterford flights inbound and outbound for today have 66 - 70 on all of them today. (70 full flight)
Join Date: Mar 2011
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WAT SEN
Loads on Southend have been around the 30 mark for yesterday and today and no way near the 66-70 being quotated earlier.
Waterford has been reduced to an ATR42 base so Southend, Birmingham, Lorient and Manchester will be operated by an ATR42 and Luton with a Galway based ATR72.
REX
Waterford has been reduced to an ATR42 base so Southend, Birmingham, Lorient and Manchester will be operated by an ATR42 and Luton with a Galway based ATR72.
REX
Join Date: Apr 2009
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A tenuous link I know, but a promo video of the terminal in the Southend Echo showed adverts for Bmibaby on posters in the renders.
With Bmibaby closing two bases and opening a new one at BHD, there will be at least two aircraft free... They claim they are to increase presence at BHX, yet there has been no announcement as yet.
With Bmibaby closing two bases and opening a new one at BHD, there will be at least two aircraft free... They claim they are to increase presence at BHX, yet there has been no announcement as yet.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend
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BMIB
BMI Baby have just started a Stansted - Belfast City route using a 733.
I would have thought if they were going to use Southend they wouldn't be starting new routes from Stansted now. But I would like to be proved wrong.
I would have thought if they were going to use Southend they wouldn't be starting new routes from Stansted now. But I would like to be proved wrong.
I've just had the chance to look at the archive footage posted above. Great stuff AND I had the luck to be invited by BWA on (one of the several) last flights of the Viscount. I was on the same one as the Mayor of Southend and we went so far up the Thames at low level I was starting to expect LHR to appear. Wonderful memory. More footage please!
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Great Film Footage - one for the social historians.
The howl of those RR Darts - A Viscount was the first type that I flew in but not from Southend - The early part of the film shows what was described as an approach radar aid - to me it looked like a microwave dish on a rotating mount - Any ideas as to what it was ? - Yes we had an Ecko Radio as a kid -very good it was too LW/MW and FM early '60's - A final one, did anyone spot that Microphone/Hairdrier/Fridge defrosting Apparatus that the lady talk down controller was using -
Heck you can imagine "Air ferries XXX 1/2 a mile from touchdown, approach and weight lifting session complete - surface wind 235 degrees at 10 (Knots) gusting 35 if I drop this microphone"
CAT III
PS - I do not mean the familiar rotating Plessey Red and White dish
Heck you can imagine "Air ferries XXX 1/2 a mile from touchdown, approach and weight lifting session complete - surface wind 235 degrees at 10 (Knots) gusting 35 if I drop this microphone"
CAT III
PS - I do not mean the familiar rotating Plessey Red and White dish
Last edited by Guest 112233; 14th Apr 2011 at 14:54.