CORK - 5
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Still fail to see how wow is going to attract any of the business going to SFO that already fly through DUB or LHR. No actual inventive other than being very marginally faster, while heavily reducing service standards. Bring a suitcase and wow is just as if not more expensive.
Suppose it is a case of seeing how it goes at this stage. Use it or lose it.
Suppose it is a case of seeing how it goes at this stage. Use it or lose it.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Most business travelers get by without a suitcase, although the fact that WOW also charge for full-size cabin baggage does put the price up a bit.
I can only see one of the two services sticking. Not sure which one though. Norwegian have the advantage of publicity and novelty factor, but whether it can be sustained without connections is questionable. WOW provide the connections at least, but need to grab more attention.
I can only see one of the two services sticking. Not sure which one though. Norwegian have the advantage of publicity and novelty factor, but whether it can be sustained without connections is questionable. WOW provide the connections at least, but need to grab more attention.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Wow Air- Really that cheap?
Checked Wow Air ORK-EWR via KEF in May. Selected the lowest possible fares.
22nd-28th May, small carry on (Smaller than even Stobart Air), no checked bag, €819.76 for 2 people
Same dates with normal sized carry on, and 1 20kg checked bag each, €1229.68 for 2 people.
Same dates from SNN-JFK with delta, €830.06, with Aer Lingus €1139.56 and with United to EWR, €1018.06 (Depart 2 days later and return a day later, goes down to €830.06 with united) All these airlines include onboard IFE, meals, checked bags and the regular carry ons.
If you want to slum it with ridiculously low baggage, a stopover, LCC onboard service, you save €5 each.
False Economy it seems.
22nd-28th May, small carry on (Smaller than even Stobart Air), no checked bag, €819.76 for 2 people
Same dates with normal sized carry on, and 1 20kg checked bag each, €1229.68 for 2 people.
Same dates from SNN-JFK with delta, €830.06, with Aer Lingus €1139.56 and with United to EWR, €1018.06 (Depart 2 days later and return a day later, goes down to €830.06 with united) All these airlines include onboard IFE, meals, checked bags and the regular carry ons.
If you want to slum it with ridiculously low baggage, a stopover, LCC onboard service, you save €5 each.
False Economy it seems.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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AerRyan - I don't see what your issue with the two latest arrivals is. The criticisms of Norwegian I can understand. It's never easy to see pay,t&c's put under threat by a new entrant/compeiditor. My profession has been in protracted dispute with our employer - it's unsettling, upsetting and is bad for morale.
I don't get your negotiators towards Wow though. No airline is going to be the cheapest everyday. I've booked MAN-DUB for next week - EI were significantly cheaper (by over £100!) than FR, but if we follow your logic that would never be the case. Is it that airlines are choosing Cork that's annoying you?
I'm thrilled to see more airlines and more destinations from Cork. KEF, BOS and NYC would all be brand new from Cork. It might put SNN under a bit of pressure - but SNN has had a significant legal advantage for many years. To the detriment of DUB and ORK. If a few less get the goBe to Dublin I don't think the DAA will care much, the "DUB hub" is growing strongly.
I don't get your negotiators towards Wow though. No airline is going to be the cheapest everyday. I've booked MAN-DUB for next week - EI were significantly cheaper (by over £100!) than FR, but if we follow your logic that would never be the case. Is it that airlines are choosing Cork that's annoying you?
I'm thrilled to see more airlines and more destinations from Cork. KEF, BOS and NYC would all be brand new from Cork. It might put SNN under a bit of pressure - but SNN has had a significant legal advantage for many years. To the detriment of DUB and ORK. If a few less get the goBe to Dublin I don't think the DAA will care much, the "DUB hub" is growing strongly.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Problem with Wow Air is its announcement of US routes from Cork, when all they are is connections, just as LHR and AMS.
The above was about false economy, the fact that full service airlines are working out cheaper than the LCC.
The above was about false economy, the fact that full service airlines are working out cheaper than the LCC.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Both if possible, they're not the reciprocal of each other?
Yes choice and competition is always good (or at least we are told), not that we are particularly lacking in either.
Wow Air is making it seem cheaper to fly with them than it actually is, when realistically it works out more expensive in some cases, infact most cases from my random cherry picked examples. Hope the good consumer in people kicks in and looks at the final price and possible hassle of a transfer before booking.
Wow Air also do the same ridiculous advertising in Dublin.
Yes choice and competition is always good (or at least we are told), not that we are particularly lacking in either.
Wow Air is making it seem cheaper to fly with them than it actually is, when realistically it works out more expensive in some cases, infact most cases from my random cherry picked examples. Hope the good consumer in people kicks in and looks at the final price and possible hassle of a transfer before booking.
Wow Air also do the same ridiculous advertising in Dublin.
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Both if possible, they're not the reciprocal of each other?
Yes choice and competition is always good (or at least we are told), not that we are particularly lacking in either.
Wow Air is making it seem cheaper to fly with them than it actually is, when realistically it works out more expensive in some cases, infact most cases from my random cherry picked examples. Hope the good consumer in people kicks in and looks at the final price and possible hassle of a transfer before booking.
Wow Air also do the same ridiculous advertising in Dublin.
Yes choice and competition is always good (or at least we are told), not that we are particularly lacking in either.
Wow Air is making it seem cheaper to fly with them than it actually is, when realistically it works out more expensive in some cases, infact most cases from my random cherry picked examples. Hope the good consumer in people kicks in and looks at the final price and possible hassle of a transfer before booking.
Wow Air also do the same ridiculous advertising in Dublin.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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The negativity is startling on here - at the end of the day new services for the south providing tourism boost and business boost - at the end of the day the consumer will choose and going by dublins numbers plenty don't mind using Wow air - the more the merrier - nothing wrong with competition 👍👍👍👍
Its like people here don't want to realise that these services aren't a gift from god. Just ignore all the valid points and scream that the services see going to do great.
Its a matter of waiting now I'd agree.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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The services aren't god given - that's SNN's approach to EI metal on JFK and BOS!;-).
I agree that up to 18 transatlantic services from ORK looks very ambitious. We couldn't sustain that frequency on LCY. I don't think (and hope) Norwegian will be daily on both from the start.
All of that said WOW offers a good number of connections across North America and short connection times, as all the flights are clustered together. Surely there is some logic to NOT flying/driving 1:30 -2:00 in precisely the wrong direction, via the hubs. Iceland is a destination in itself too, not to forget. As for airlines advertising onward destinations from their hub, look no further than KLM, who heavily advertise the likes of BOS and DXB with the line "fly from Yorkshire (Leeds, Doncaster and Humberside) to the world". At the very end they say "flights via Schiphol Airport". DSA isn't even operated by KLM, rather a codeshare on BE! The American Airlines are even worse - using one flight number on something like SNN-JFK-ATL, with a change of plane entirely at JFK! What WOW are doing is nothing new.
The luggage situation is very stingy though - I agree.
I agree that up to 18 transatlantic services from ORK looks very ambitious. We couldn't sustain that frequency on LCY. I don't think (and hope) Norwegian will be daily on both from the start.
All of that said WOW offers a good number of connections across North America and short connection times, as all the flights are clustered together. Surely there is some logic to NOT flying/driving 1:30 -2:00 in precisely the wrong direction, via the hubs. Iceland is a destination in itself too, not to forget. As for airlines advertising onward destinations from their hub, look no further than KLM, who heavily advertise the likes of BOS and DXB with the line "fly from Yorkshire (Leeds, Doncaster and Humberside) to the world". At the very end they say "flights via Schiphol Airport". DSA isn't even operated by KLM, rather a codeshare on BE! The American Airlines are even worse - using one flight number on something like SNN-JFK-ATL, with a change of plane entirely at JFK! What WOW are doing is nothing new.
The luggage situation is very stingy though - I agree.
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[quote=brian_dromey;9604896]The services aren't god given (that's SNN's approach to EI metal on JFK and BOS 😜
.
I think it'll be 3/4 weekly on each service if it materialises.
I agree. As does LHR. MAN. AMS.
Driving the hour and a half to Shannon/ 2hrs 30mins to Dublin would more than compensate the extra takeoff, landing, change of aircraft and hour and half on the ground. Even then, LHR wouldn't add that much time.
Wouldn't think it with the advertising they do
Fly to the world is quite clearly less manipulative than fly to the US from cork, as well as the tabloid style article "WOW AIR ANNOUNCES US FLIGHTS FROM CORK" which is clearly more misleading. Even the airport's own Fb page is guilty of this. If you can bring yourself to read the comments under these articles, you'll find just how much confusion there is.
Onward flights are operated by KLM though, also worth noting Cork isn't operated by KLM either.
Really? Never seen them advertise a flight that wasn't direct.
How does this mislead people? They don't advertise these?
Never seen it before to such a ridiculous scale, and certainly never seen the newspapers take the bait to such an extent.
Agreed. Still don't understand their carry on policy.
.
I agree that up to 18 transatlantic services from ORK looks wildly ambitious. We couldn't sustain that frequency on LCY...
All of that said WOW offers a good number of connections across North America and short connection times, as all the flights are clustered together.
Surely there is some logic to NOT flying/driving 1:30 -2:00 in precisely the wrong direction, via the hubs.
Iceland is a destination in itself too, not to forget.
As for airlines advertising onward destinations from their hub, look no further than KLM, who heavily advertise the likes of BOS and DXB with the line "fly from Yorkshire (Leeds, Doncaster and Humberside) to the world".
DSA isn't even operated by KLM, rather a codeshare on BE!
The American Airlines are even worse
using one flight number on something like SNN-JFK-ATL, with a change of plane entirely at JFK!
What WOW are doing is nothing new.
The luggage situation is very stingy though - I agree.
Rebel PPRuNer
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Norwegian/Boston - TF Green at least has MBTA service, though infrequent. 90mins to Boston. Also might pull in some trade from Connecticut by way of Providence Amtrak.
Sending it to Portsmouth NH seems way worse connectivity wise, with no Amtrak (nearest is Dover NH) or MBTA (Newburyport MA)
All things being equal, and being from Cork myself, I would rather go via SNN-BOS which knows what it's doing with international travel and isn't stuck up on a foggy hill than risk Cork to a provincial airport trying to go big time, and even more so if the road around Buttevant is fixed. Not a single international flight on TF Green's departure board today, not even to Canada which I found surprising.
Sending it to Portsmouth NH seems way worse connectivity wise, with no Amtrak (nearest is Dover NH) or MBTA (Newburyport MA)
All things being equal, and being from Cork myself, I would rather go via SNN-BOS which knows what it's doing with international travel and isn't stuck up on a foggy hill than risk Cork to a provincial airport trying to go big time, and even more so if the road around Buttevant is fixed. Not a single international flight on TF Green's departure board today, not even to Canada which I found surprising.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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If looking to be positive, we can remember that there was a lot of skepticism over Ryanair's initial use of secondary airports. That said, Ryanair started at Waterford an look how that went for them.
One way or another, it won't be feasible to operate to the secondary airports without a bus service being in place.
On completely different note, Cork to Zurich flights seem to start from €210 rtn (same dates from Dublin are coming in at €334 rtn).
However, if you try to feed in a long-haul connection, the prices go through the roof.
For example the return flight to Johannesburg is €3,130. Here by contrast, the price from Dublin on the same dates is €1,148.
So it looks like the pricing is to pretty much force people to use it as point-to-point only, but still allow the connection.
That's a bit disappointing for anyone hoping the route might develop into something more sustainable than a brief summer service.
I presume this is because the operating company is down as 'Swiss Global Air Lines' for the Cork flights, when all others are down as being operated by 'Swiss'.
One way or another, it won't be feasible to operate to the secondary airports without a bus service being in place.
On completely different note, Cork to Zurich flights seem to start from €210 rtn (same dates from Dublin are coming in at €334 rtn).
However, if you try to feed in a long-haul connection, the prices go through the roof.
For example the return flight to Johannesburg is €3,130. Here by contrast, the price from Dublin on the same dates is €1,148.
So it looks like the pricing is to pretty much force people to use it as point-to-point only, but still allow the connection.
That's a bit disappointing for anyone hoping the route might develop into something more sustainable than a brief summer service.
I presume this is because the operating company is down as 'Swiss Global Air Lines' for the Cork flights, when all others are down as being operated by 'Swiss'.
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I'm not sure I entirely remember what the sun frequency was like over the summer, but I *think* what has happened is
Faro: +2 weekly rotations
Malaga: +2 weekly rotations
Alicante: +1 weekly rotation
Barcelona: +1 weekly rotation
Amsterdam; -1 weekly rotation
It will be good for airport numbers (c. 2% annual growth from the Aer Lingus summer programme alone). Not so sure it will be great for inbound tourism, with a strong inbound route reduced, while ones that send tourists abroad are increased. I suspect the Amsterdam changes may be a means of encouraging more connecting passenger through the IAG hub at LHR rather than because the Tuesday services don't carry decent numbers in the summer.
Faro: +2 weekly rotations
Malaga: +2 weekly rotations
Alicante: +1 weekly rotation
Barcelona: +1 weekly rotation
Amsterdam; -1 weekly rotation
It will be good for airport numbers (c. 2% annual growth from the Aer Lingus summer programme alone). Not so sure it will be great for inbound tourism, with a strong inbound route reduced, while ones that send tourists abroad are increased. I suspect the Amsterdam changes may be a means of encouraging more connecting passenger through the IAG hub at LHR rather than because the Tuesday services don't carry decent numbers in the summer.
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Usual positive spin on what is effectively 1 extra A320 rotation a week on the European network. Even the LHR capacity increase, which was well flagged, was overstated in the press release by 5,000+ seats.
Last edited by EI 706; 15th Dec 2016 at 15:29.
