CORK - 5
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I suppose if something good has come from this, there has been some discussion about the situation at Cork Airport at last. I guess that's what happens when you take away a route that is used by MEPs and TDs.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Clearly Cork airport hasn`t a very bright future as an afterthought of the DAA.
Fair dues to the success of Dublin airport but Cork needs to become independent with new management as happened to Shannon.
The sooner that happens, the sooner Cork will join Knock, Dublin and Shannon and return to growth in an expanding economy again.
Fair dues to the success of Dublin airport but Cork needs to become independent with new management as happened to Shannon.
The sooner that happens, the sooner Cork will join Knock, Dublin and Shannon and return to growth in an expanding economy again.
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Clearly Cork airport hasn`t a very bright future as an afterthought of the DAA.
Fair dues to the success of Dublin airport but Cork needs to become independent with new management as happened to Shannon.
The sooner that happens, the sooner Cork will join Knock, Dublin and Shannon and return to growth in an expanding economy again.
Fair dues to the success of Dublin airport but Cork needs to become independent with new management as happened to Shannon.
The sooner that happens, the sooner Cork will join Knock, Dublin and Shannon and return to growth in an expanding economy again.
What has SNN achieved apart from Ryanair paying buttons and beginning to take control of s/h market. They have yet to attract a single carrier from Europe. Ryanair will not have a big operation at ORK/SNN/NOC as it won't be supported as can be seen by the route changes at the 3 airports!
What makes people think it will all be prefect once Cork is free.
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Shannon has achieved a lot, especially on transatlantic services.
Cork, unlike Shannon and Knock actually has a large population to serve and should be doing a lot better but continues to under-perform as its management is the Dublin Airport Authority who are focused on furthering the success of Dublin airport.
There is obviously an issue with the management of Cork airport if Dublin, Shannon and Knock are all enjoying growth and Cork continues to decline in a growing economy.
Cork, unlike Shannon and Knock actually has a large population to serve and should be doing a lot better but continues to under-perform as its management is the Dublin Airport Authority who are focused on furthering the success of Dublin airport.
There is obviously an issue with the management of Cork airport if Dublin, Shannon and Knock are all enjoying growth and Cork continues to decline in a growing economy.
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The D.A.A. frequently point to the route incentive scheme at Cork as evidence that they are working to promote the airport. However not one new airline has availed of the scheme since 2006.
The problems are compounded by the fact that Cork is now in the grip of just two airlines. In the past it had a portfolio of up to 8 scheduled carriers and a wide range of tour operators operating Charter flights. That was a far healthier position to be in. The level of serious competition between airlines at Cork is now extremely low.
The problems are compounded by the fact that Cork is now in the grip of just two airlines. In the past it had a portfolio of up to 8 scheduled carriers and a wide range of tour operators operating Charter flights. That was a far healthier position to be in. The level of serious competition between airlines at Cork is now extremely low.
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There is also a conflict of interest for the Dublin Airport Authority managing Cork airport. The main competitor to Cork airport isn`t the 3 other airports in Munster.
It is Dublin airport as the hourly AirCoach and Gobe buses between Dublin airport and Cork demonstrate.
It is Dublin airport as the hourly AirCoach and Gobe buses between Dublin airport and Cork demonstrate.
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From a strictly business point of view I suppose the DAA feel that any growth at Cork will be largely at Dublin's expense so why be over generous with incentives and charges.
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Shannon has achieved a lot, especially on transatlantic services.
Cork, unlike Shannon and Knock actually has a large population to serve and should be doing a lot better but continues to under-perform as its management is the Dublin Airport Authority who are focused on furthering the success of Dublin airport.
There is obviously an issue with the management of Cork airport if Dublin, Shannon and Knock are all enjoying growth and Cork continues to decline in a growing economy.
Cork, unlike Shannon and Knock actually has a large population to serve and should be doing a lot better but continues to under-perform as its management is the Dublin Airport Authority who are focused on furthering the success of Dublin airport.
There is obviously an issue with the management of Cork airport if Dublin, Shannon and Knock are all enjoying growth and Cork continues to decline in a growing economy.
There is also a conflict of interest for the Dublin Airport Authority managing Cork airport. The main competitor to Cork airport isn`t the 3 other airports in Munster.
It is Dublin airport as the hourly AirCoach and Gobe buses between Dublin airport and Cork demonstrate.
It is Dublin airport as the hourly AirCoach and Gobe buses between Dublin airport and Cork demonstrate.
Cork-US will not happen medium term so the success is really not a comparison to Cork.
Knock's growth is bucket and spade/UK while Shannon's down to Ryaniar and its only significant this year because of the large announcement. We won't be seeing the big 20% growth PR machine next year unless Ryaniar decide to delver several hundred thousand more passengers which won't happen.
The fact still remains that while SNN can offer airlines any deal they have yet to attract a single carrier other than Ryanair. This is significant and if Cork had the same powers what puts them in a better position? Nothing!
Getting such a service would be very low frequency and have no effect on Dublin. Has SNN's new route effected Dublin, no!
Corks debt is an issue however with SNN trying to cut their staff costs ORK will have to do the exact same to compete and essentially they are both competing for Ryanair if they were on there own and that's a race to the bottom and may not end well.
Believe it or not huge numbers use the express bus service between city and city only.
The D.A.A. frequently point to the route incentive scheme at Cork as evidence that they are working to promote the airport. However not one new airline has availed of the scheme since 2006.
The problems are compounded by the fact that Cork is now in the grip of just two airlines. In the past it had a portfolio of up to 8 scheduled carriers and a wide range of tour operators operating Charter flights. That was a far healthier position to be in. The level of serious competition between airlines at Cork is now extremely low.
The problems are compounded by the fact that Cork is now in the grip of just two airlines. In the past it had a portfolio of up to 8 scheduled carriers and a wide range of tour operators operating Charter flights. That was a far healthier position to be in. The level of serious competition between airlines at Cork is now extremely low.
The comments from local TD/MEP's were unbelievable and should be of concern to the locals as they clearly have little intelligence and you voted them to represent the region.
The same schemes at ORK are used at DUB by the way.
From a strictly business point of view I suppose the DAA feel that any growth at Cork will be largely at Dublin's expense so why be over generous with incentives and charges.
An airport like BRS many connections to major hubs/cities in Europe are all operated by 49 seats aircraft which speaks volumes as the city is twice the size of Cork and has a much larger surrounding population.
Independence may help but it will not increase traffic unless they can attract carriers something which other airports can't bar Ryanair.
Wizz Air going was the biggest blow to Cork. If SNN had being freed sooner then they may be still here. Getting a route or two back would be a big benefit.
Last edited by Jamie2k9; 30th Aug 2014 at 20:14.
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Give it time, ORK will bounce back. FR play games, they will soon tire of loosing money trying to fill 189 seat a/c at SNN on low margins and invent a row with the airport. It looks like FR have driven EIR off SNN-MAN and will move capacity to ORK, no doubt passenger numbers will blossom on their ORK routes and FR will follow in for the chase. Then ORK will be flavour of the month and SNN will be back in decline.
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Let us not worry about growth now. The main issue remains the ongoing decline in passenger numbers which is putting more and more pressure on the cost base. Passenger numbers have declined all through 2014 and that decline will continue well in to 2015. Cork Airport/DAA needs to stabilise that situation first. That involves proactive and serious discussions with the 2-3 airlines that it currently has. Even a few new routes from potential new customers would not make up for the routes that have and are being lost and have yet to be lost if that trend continues. The latest cuts that have been scheduled by Stobart and Aer Lingus are proof, in their timing alone, that relationships are nothing close to what they could and should be between all parties. Its time to put more emphasis on repairing the damage done to existing bridges rather than becoming overly preoccupied with building new ones for press sound bites.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Jamie2k9, I have always found you a good poster on aviation in Ireland but perhaps are you a little partial on Cork airport remaining within the Dublin Aviation Authority?
As someone who travels to Cork quite often, possibly as much as 50% of the flights I take are to Dublin airport. I can tell you that upwards of 90% of the passengers on the Aircoach and Gobe hourly buses I`ve been on are traveling to/from Dublin airport.
If I am just traveling between the cities, I much prefer the train.
Dublin airport is the major competitor to Cork, Belfast, Shannon and Waterford airports thanks to the fine motorway system which are all connected to Dublin.
There is a conflict of interest by the Dublin Airport authority managing Cork airport. Cork needs a similar deal that Shannon achieved a couple of years ago and become independent.
Dublin airport is booming once again and all the major airports in Ireland are growing with the exception of Cork. All the more ironic really, since outside of Dublin, Cork has the only major population centre in the Republic.
Since we are at the end of August, I`m surprised nobody has mentioned that EMC are vacating their hangar at Cork airport this month after moving in there in the 1990`s. A further blow to Cork airport and a serious loss of revenue.
The frustration of dealing with the Dublin Airport Authority at Cork airport has been mentioned as a factor in this decision.
Major change is needed at Cork airport and an independent Cork Aviation Authority should be leading that change.
As someone who travels to Cork quite often, possibly as much as 50% of the flights I take are to Dublin airport. I can tell you that upwards of 90% of the passengers on the Aircoach and Gobe hourly buses I`ve been on are traveling to/from Dublin airport.
If I am just traveling between the cities, I much prefer the train.
Dublin airport is the major competitor to Cork, Belfast, Shannon and Waterford airports thanks to the fine motorway system which are all connected to Dublin.
There is a conflict of interest by the Dublin Airport authority managing Cork airport. Cork needs a similar deal that Shannon achieved a couple of years ago and become independent.
Dublin airport is booming once again and all the major airports in Ireland are growing with the exception of Cork. All the more ironic really, since outside of Dublin, Cork has the only major population centre in the Republic.
Since we are at the end of August, I`m surprised nobody has mentioned that EMC are vacating their hangar at Cork airport this month after moving in there in the 1990`s. A further blow to Cork airport and a serious loss of revenue.
The frustration of dealing with the Dublin Airport Authority at Cork airport has been mentioned as a factor in this decision.
Major change is needed at Cork airport and an independent Cork Aviation Authority should be leading that change.
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CCR
I am all for Cork going free and wish it would happen however it will not address the decline in numbers. Aer Lingus still would of made the winter cuts even on reduced charges. Believe it or not they have cut DUB this winter.
Is an independent facility going to relay on Ryanair to deliver growth and have a race to the bottom between SNN and ORK and people would find a way of saying the daa is at fault.
All well and good you taking the train however of many people its to costly, cheapest is 30e booked well in advance and up to 75e return where as a bus is under 20-30. Believe more large numbers go to city, if airport numbers were booming they would skip the city stop.
Where will the growth come from and people are unable to answer and leaving the daa will not do much in this respect.
KLM - EI code share
AF - tried SNN and EI have a daily service
LH - have looked at airports outside DUB and not interested apparently!
SK financial problems and ORK is unlikely to work
Need I list more carriers and no loco will comes to Ireland because of FR effect.
I am all for Cork going free and wish it would happen however it will not address the decline in numbers. Aer Lingus still would of made the winter cuts even on reduced charges. Believe it or not they have cut DUB this winter.
Is an independent facility going to relay on Ryanair to deliver growth and have a race to the bottom between SNN and ORK and people would find a way of saying the daa is at fault.
All well and good you taking the train however of many people its to costly, cheapest is 30e booked well in advance and up to 75e return where as a bus is under 20-30. Believe more large numbers go to city, if airport numbers were booming they would skip the city stop.
Where will the growth come from and people are unable to answer and leaving the daa will not do much in this respect.
KLM - EI code share
AF - tried SNN and EI have a daily service
LH - have looked at airports outside DUB and not interested apparently!
SK financial problems and ORK is unlikely to work
Need I list more carriers and no loco will comes to Ireland because of FR effect.
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Cork, unlike Shannon and Knock actually has a large population to serve and should be doing a lot better but continues to under-perform as its management is the Dublin Airport Authority who are focused on furthering the success of Dublin airport.
Population of Connacht - 542,000
Other than Cork having a city on its doorstep there isn't too much difference between the catchment of Cork and, as an example, IWAK. Is the idea that Cork has a huge population to serve not somewhat overstated? The city is close but the county is larger and more spread out than any in Ireland, it is almost provincial in terms of size.
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You realise you're comparing a county with a province that has 2.5 times it's area?
Nevertheless, it does touch on an issue for Cork (and Knock and Shannon for that matter), which is the shrinking of its catchment because of infrastructure improvements.
Once upon a time, if someone from Waterford was flying to a destination not served by WAT, they almost inevitably traveled from Cork. It was around 90 minutes away, while DUB was more than 3 hours. Now with the completion of the M9, Dublin Airport is only around 2 hours away, while there has been no real improvement in the road connection to Cork. Potential passengers will just look at price and frequency where Cork often loses out.
I would actually say the M9 has had more of an impact on Cork than the M8, other than the effect it had on ORK-DUB flights. Yes, it's quicker to get to DUB for people along the M8, but it's also quicker to get to Cork. That doesn't happen with the M9.
Nevertheless, it does touch on an issue for Cork (and Knock and Shannon for that matter), which is the shrinking of its catchment because of infrastructure improvements.
Once upon a time, if someone from Waterford was flying to a destination not served by WAT, they almost inevitably traveled from Cork. It was around 90 minutes away, while DUB was more than 3 hours. Now with the completion of the M9, Dublin Airport is only around 2 hours away, while there has been no real improvement in the road connection to Cork. Potential passengers will just look at price and frequency where Cork often loses out.
I would actually say the M9 has had more of an impact on Cork than the M8, other than the effect it had on ORK-DUB flights. Yes, it's quicker to get to DUB for people along the M8, but it's also quicker to get to Cork. That doesn't happen with the M9.
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With all it's problems Cork's traffic is still over 2 million which is somewhere around the 2004 traffic level. This was considered a very satisfactory figure at the time. Of course it was never going to be enough to pay for the new terminal.
In hindsight maybe a major extension to the old terminal would have been sufficient. It'd be great to get back to 3 million but the worrying thing is that it took a virtual shuttle service to Dublin and people taking multiple foreign city breaks every year to get it to that level back in 2006. This winter Paris and Amsterdam will be the only viable Continental City Break destinations available from Cork as distinct from upwards of 10 during the boom.
What's particularly frustrating is that the range of flights is decreasing as the economy is improving.
In hindsight maybe a major extension to the old terminal would have been sufficient. It'd be great to get back to 3 million but the worrying thing is that it took a virtual shuttle service to Dublin and people taking multiple foreign city breaks every year to get it to that level back in 2006. This winter Paris and Amsterdam will be the only viable Continental City Break destinations available from Cork as distinct from upwards of 10 during the boom.
What's particularly frustrating is that the range of flights is decreasing as the economy is improving.
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So it looks like DUB link is happening with the 42 from SNN.
Evening Echo ? Talks to reintroduce the Cork -Dublin flight are at an advanced stage
Evening Echo ? Talks to reintroduce the Cork -Dublin flight are at an advanced stage