LONDON CITY - 2
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Age: 64
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crossrail will certainly improve access to LHR, but perhaps not as radically as you expect. On current plans, only 4 Crossrail trains per hour will go to LHR. These won't serve T5. On top of this, likely only 2 per hour from LHR will serve C Wharf (because 50% of Crossrail services going east will go via Stratford, not the Wharf), so passengers will often need to change to get to the Wharf.
Much of this is tied up with access issues on the track into LHR, which is owned by the airport, and they want to preserve "train paths" for their Express services.
Much of this is tied up with access issues on the track into LHR, which is owned by the airport, and they want to preserve "train paths" for their Express services.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a certain logic to that you know, not from a Green perspetive but Crossrail will link Canary Wharf with LHR. It will have an impact I am sure.
Crossrail would never be a substitute for having an airport on the doorstep.
Crossrail will certainly improve access to LHR, but perhaps not as radically as you expect. On current plans, only 4 Crossrail trains per hour will go to LHR. These won't serve T5. On top of this, likely only 2 per hour from LHR will serve C Wharf (because 50% of Crossrail services going east will go via Stratford, not the Wharf), so passengers will often need to change to get to the Wharf.
There are many concepts of the crossrail plan that suggests an allergy to common sense, for example, why is the Greenford branch not included? why is the eastern terminus not at Southend (many commuters between Shenfield and Southend because property was cheap in that area)? why is there no station at the London City airport terminal (as the crossrail tunnel goes directly underneath)?
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Age: 64
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stupid for Crossrail not to serve T5? No argument from me on that, but (according to current published plan) it won't. That is not to say it couldn't change - no technical reason why the trains can't run through. It's all dependent on what access agreement can be agreed between tfl and Heathrow Airport (who own all the rail infrastructure west of the junction off the GWR line).
No station at LCY? The airport owners didn't offer any money towards construction. Contrast Canary Wharf, who funded and built the station there.
No station at LCY? The airport owners didn't offer any money towards construction. Contrast Canary Wharf, who funded and built the station there.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: In the mines
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The old station by LCY can't be opened again as it is on a bend and that is not allowed anymore, otherwise I think it would have been a nice and cheap option. Probably some useless EU rule. If only we had a choice on whether to be in the EU or not!! 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Station platforms no longer allowed on a bend? Go and catch a south bound Thameslink train at the recently rebuilt Farringdon Station. There's several bends and a gap of over a foot between the platform and the train in places.
Thread Starter
The old station by LCY can't be opened again as it is on a bend and that is not allowed anymore, otherwise I think it would have been a nice and cheap option.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: In the mines
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't a clue,
Apparently if the station is already there, its fine, a la Farringdon. If it is a new station, even one that has closed, then the rule exists. Couldn't believe the answer when I asked the same question!!!
Apparently if the station is already there, its fine, a la Farringdon. If it is a new station, even one that has closed, then the rule exists. Couldn't believe the answer when I asked the same question!!!
More likely home grown "elf and safety" - I think we'd win the gold medal if risk assessment were an Olympic sport!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I presume it must have something to do with accessibility for wheelchair and disabled customers. If there's a large gap it significantly complicates that issue
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if I am missing something, but the Silvertown/North Woolwich branch has long been dismantled - so there is nothing that could be reopenend or something that could be rebuilt. In fact, the branch has made way for the new Crossrail section to Abbey Wood. My understanding is that to allow future development, there is passive provision for an additional station on that Crossrail branch somewhere near, but slightly east to the former Silvertown station. It would not solve the issue of a location off the airport, but it really would not be that far away (200 metres ?). As a public transport option, it would be quite attractive as it would, unlike the DLR, give direct access to Central London. My understanding is that passengers from 2018 will be able to connect to Crossrail by hopping on the DLR at LCY and connect at Canary Wharf - not sure if that is the final nail in the coffin for any future development of a LCY crossrail station.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Age: 64
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The empty site north of the Crossrail station at Canary Wharf will be built on. As part of that construction, a walkway will be created from the Canary Wharf Crossrail station to Poplar DLR station (which is nearer to the Crossrail station than the DLR station called Canary Wharf). Only about 250 metre walk, so no further than the walk if a Crossrail station had been built near LCY. Remember this section of Crossrail reuses the alignment of the former rail line, building in new tunnel to the LCY terminal has never been on the agenda.
In any case, the construction phase of Crossrail is complete - it's now all about systems/signalling fit out and integration - so this boat has long since sailed.
In any case, the construction phase of Crossrail is complete - it's now all about systems/signalling fit out and integration - so this boat has long since sailed.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure, but as I said, there is passive provision for a Silvertown station. It is not part of the existing Crossrail scheme, but it would be possible to add the station sometime in the future.
“Silvertown station will be demolished and passive provision for a new station in the future. The Hybrid Bill proposals do not make provision for a station at Silvertown.”
Thread Starter
Yes, but the Crossrail line physically passes under the LCY ramp at the western end. It's a sad story of so near but so far.
It passes under the Jet Centre entrance gate, the middle of the GA aircraft stands, and the fire service trainer. The end of the western passenger pier is closer to the rail line than it is to the terminal building. I can't think of another city that would have a brand-new major rail line built passing directly under a major airport without any provision for a station.
It passes under the Jet Centre entrance gate, the middle of the GA aircraft stands, and the fire service trainer. The end of the western passenger pier is closer to the rail line than it is to the terminal building. I can't think of another city that would have a brand-new major rail line built passing directly under a major airport without any provision for a station.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it's a pity that there wasn't a more cohesive policy regarding Crossrail - although Crossrail will link in to Woolwich which is 2 stops away on DLR. There is also a, rather underused, DLR station (King George V) one stop closer to Woolwich which has access to LCY - albeit blocked off at the moment...it would need a lift added to the northern side though in order to provide wheelchair etc access.
I wonder if there are any plans to open it up should LCY gain permission to expand following the recent planning inquiry? 2 terminals at LCY? One at existing London City Airport DLR station and one at King George V station?
Aside from problems of a bend in the track at former Silvertown station there is also an issue about accessing the airport from it through residential streets.
I wonder if there are any plans to open it up should LCY gain permission to expand following the recent planning inquiry? 2 terminals at LCY? One at existing London City Airport DLR station and one at King George V station?
Aside from problems of a bend in the track at former Silvertown station there is also an issue about accessing the airport from it through residential streets.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if I am missing something, but the Silvertown/North Woolwich branch has long been dismantled - so there is nothing that could be reopenend or something that could be rebuilt. In fact, the branch has made way for the new Crossrail section to Abbey Wood. My understanding is that to allow future development, there is passive provision for an additional station on that Crossrail branch somewhere near, but slightly east to the former Silvertown station. It would not solve the issue of a location off the airport, but it really would not be that far away (200 metres ?). As a public transport option, it would be quite attractive as it would, unlike the DLR, give direct access to Central London. My understanding is that passengers from 2018 will be able to connect to Crossrail by hopping on the DLR at LCY and connect at Canary Wharf - not sure if that is the final nail in the coffin for any future development of a LCY crossrail station.
Yes it's a pity that there wasn't a more cohesive policy regarding Crossrail - although Crossrail will link in to Woolwich which is 2 stops away on DLR. There is also a, rather underused, DLR station (King George V) one stop closer to Woolwich which has access to LCY - albeit blocked off at the moment...it would need a lift added to the northern side though in order to provide wheelchair etc access.
Why is the concept of an integrated transport so difficult to understand and implement?
I wonder if there are any plans to open it up should LCY gain permission to expand following the recent planning inquiry? 2 terminals at LCY? One at existing London City Airport DLR station and one at King George V station?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's more stupid than one can imagine as the crossrail tunnel passes directly below the LCY terminal building.
Why should one have to do all this nonsense when it should be possible to just take an escalator/lift/stairs between the terminal and station.
Why is the concept of an integrated transport so difficult to understand and implement?
The DLR is not an issue at LCY, the station is very convenient. The lack of a future crossrail station is.
Why should one have to do all this nonsense when it should be possible to just take an escalator/lift/stairs between the terminal and station.
Why is the concept of an integrated transport so difficult to understand and implement?
The DLR is not an issue at LCY, the station is very convenient. The lack of a future crossrail station is.
Both from a cost and physical geography point-of-view I think a new "underground" Crossrail station to link to the terminal would not be feasible.
I suspect the straight stretch near the old Silvertown station is the most practical option but that suffers from distance to the terminal plus having to cross a residential area.
The DLR links LCY to Canary Wharf/Bank to the west and Woolwich to the east, both of which are useful catchment areas for point-to-point traffic - which is what LCY is primarily concerned with - both Canary Wharf & Woolwich will be served by Crossrail. It's not as if there are realistically going to be a large number of people who want to transfer between LCY and LHR even if there was a Crossrail station at LCY.
Also relatively unlikely that pax from west of London would take Crossrail to use LCY when LHR is much closer for them.
In short I don't think the problems of Crossrail connectivity is a huge issue for LCY. It would be nice undoubtedly for some customers but of no benefit for most.
Personally I could see advantages of a domestic terminal, served by one of the DLR stations, and an international terminal, served by the other DLR station, but that would very much be determined by any new stand layout that might come if expansion is finally granted.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, but that's the barmiest idea I've heard for a while!
