LONDON CITY - 2
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Even if a new airport owner wanted to move away from a single-terminal layout and somehow felt that the benefits outweighed the obvious drawbacks, why ON EARTH would they want to hardwire one terminal to be domestic and the other international? That would take away a huge amount of stand capacity flexibility, and what would it gain? (If there's a BA aircraft operating inbound from EDI and then outbound to FRA (or whatever) where should it park?)
Sorry, but that's the barmiest idea I've heard for a while!
Sorry, but that's the barmiest idea I've heard for a while!
That's why if a domestic lands and can only park on an international stand the pax need bussing to the domestic gate (similarly if an international flight lands and has to park on a domestic stand).
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
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The Crossrail station at Woolwich is irrelevant for LCY passengers. That station is not in the same place as - and will not be connected to - the existing DLR or National Rail stations. That's because it was funded by Berkeley Homes, and is situated to serve their massive new housing blocks in Woolwich.
In terms of passive provision for a future Crossrail station at LCY, yes, I agree, the design includes passive provision for this. But when I say the ship has sailed, I meant in terms of funding and "political will" to build at LCY, that opportunity has gone. I just can't see it ever being built.
Why does "Britain plc" allow such an obvious opportunity to be missed? Because we have no political will to do it - successive governments have flogged off various bits of transport infrastructure (air and rail) to competing interests. I am not saying was wrong - but we are left with a system where there is no "governing hand" looking at the bigger picture, whether in terms of capacity (still no extra runway for London) or environmental impact.
In terms of passive provision for a future Crossrail station at LCY, yes, I agree, the design includes passive provision for this. But when I say the ship has sailed, I meant in terms of funding and "political will" to build at LCY, that opportunity has gone. I just can't see it ever being built.
Why does "Britain plc" allow such an obvious opportunity to be missed? Because we have no political will to do it - successive governments have flogged off various bits of transport infrastructure (air and rail) to competing interests. I am not saying was wrong - but we are left with a system where there is no "governing hand" looking at the bigger picture, whether in terms of capacity (still no extra runway for London) or environmental impact.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quick question: Has Sun Air been using their (own) Dornier 328-300 Jets into LCY or is it still a Dornier 328-100 Turboprop operation opf Sun Air by MHS Aviation? I noted a picture of OY-NCO at LCY in one of the databases but was wondering if it was a charter or one-off.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I suspect the straight stretch near the old Silvertown station is the most practical option but that suffers from distance to the terminal plus having to cross a residential area.
I don't think the line does pass directly below the terminal building. I think it cuts the corner at the furthest west portion of the LCY site, beyond the terminal, beyond the western pier, underneath the Jet Centre.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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"If the satellite images I have seen are not misleading, the crossrail track pretty much follows the old Silvertown branch line track"
Yes. Crossrail reuses the exact route between the new tunnel portals (which are west of Custom House and just west of North Woolwich). They've even reused (and effectively rebuilt) the Connaught tunnel under the docks.
Yes. Crossrail reuses the exact route between the new tunnel portals (which are west of Custom House and just west of North Woolwich). They've even reused (and effectively rebuilt) the Connaught tunnel under the docks.
Sure, but we have to put that into perspective: The distance from the train to check-in would not be longer than most distances one has to cover when arriving on public transport at LHR or LGW.
Thread Starter
Quick question: Has Sun Air been using their (own) Dornier 328-300 Jets into LCY or is it still a Dornier 328-100 Turboprop operation
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Sun-Air are using a mixture of Dornier 328-300 Jets and Dornier 328-100 Turboprops on there BLL service. Next week Sun-Air will the D328-100 turboprop on all rotations to LCY from BLL with the exception of BA8209/BA8210 on 29th April.
The following week a D328-100 will operate on Monday and the D328-300 will operate all BLL frequencies from Tuesday onwards
Sun-Air will continue to operate a D328-100 turboprop on the LCY-HAM through until 4th May, when they will end there operation of the route. LCY-HAM recommences on the 8th May 2016 with flight showing as being operated by MHS Aviation for BACF 3 x daily using a D328-100 turboprop. The aircraft will offer both a CE and ET service. Compared to the single class service currently offered by Sun-Air
The following week a D328-100 will operate on Monday and the D328-300 will operate all BLL frequencies from Tuesday onwards
Sun-Air will continue to operate a D328-100 turboprop on the LCY-HAM through until 4th May, when they will end there operation of the route. LCY-HAM recommences on the 8th May 2016 with flight showing as being operated by MHS Aviation for BACF 3 x daily using a D328-100 turboprop. The aircraft will offer both a CE and ET service. Compared to the single class service currently offered by Sun-Air
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I always thought that the Dornier 328-300 was not certified for LCY because Sun Air always used leased in MHS turboprops on the BLL/HAM-services. But apparently the jets were certified in 2011.
Interesting that the MHS Dornier 328 stays on the HAM route. Is there no BACF/Eastern Saab 2000 available? That was the type BA announced when it launched the HAM route in its own right, and applying the BA fare structure (instead of the much higher Sun Air fares) to a Dornier 328 service certainly is a costly exercise.
Interesting that the MHS Dornier 328 stays on the HAM route. Is there no BACF/Eastern Saab 2000 available? That was the type BA announced when it launched the HAM route in its own right, and applying the BA fare structure (instead of the much higher Sun Air fares) to a Dornier 328 service certainly is a costly exercise.
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Originally Posted by virginblue
applying the BA fare structure (instead of the much higher Sun Air fares) to a Dornier 328 service certainly is a costly exercise.
Economy basic (no checked bag) starts at £157rtn
Economy Plus (1 checked bag) starts from £191rtn
Economy Flex (1 checked bag refundable ticket) £683rtn
Restricted Club fares start at £383rtn however it requires a Saturday night stay. Non restrictive club fares range from £734 to £993rtn
It will be interesting to see what the loads are like with fares as high as these
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Well, as the HAM customers are used to the high Sun Air fares and the route was still so successful that BA took it over, there is probably no incentive to bring down the fares as long as the same aircraft /capacity as before plies the route. Once the seats of the larger Saab 2000 need to be sold, some cheaper fare buckets will probably become available.
Thread Starter
I always thought that the Dornier 328-300 was not certified for LCY because Sun Air always used leased in MHS turboprops on the BLL/HAM-services. But apparently the jets were certified in 2011.
Over on the BA page here there's a discussion about Sun-Air being about to base 2 x Do328 Jets at Bremen from September, one of the new routes from there being to LCY.
Last edited by WHBM; 25th Apr 2016 at 08:09.
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Flew new London Ctrl zone route into City recently on the Dublin inbound.
Unusual dog leg approach.
Beats routing out over SEN and extended finals up the estuary.
Anyone flown the new lanes recently? What you think - improvement?
Unusual dog leg approach.
Beats routing out over SEN and extended finals up the estuary.
Anyone flown the new lanes recently? What you think - improvement?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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I think that ever since they started into LCY they have used German-registered and operated Do328 Prop aircraft.
Thread Starter
Flew new London Ctrl zone route into City recently on the Dublin inbound.
Unusual dog leg approach.
Beats routing out over SEN and extended finals up the estuary.
Anyone flown the new lanes recently? What you think - improvement?
Unusual dog leg approach.
Beats routing out over SEN and extended finals up the estuary.
Anyone flown the new lanes recently? What you think - improvement?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Well when I came in from Aberdeen last week on Flybe (LCY on easterlies), after Southend we got as far as overhead Manston, and from the port side I could faintly see the French coastline. I know it's not twice round SPEAR followed by three times round ALKIN, but that's not really an improvement, is it ?
After approx 50 mins flying time from Cork, go past LCY, keep going, keep going until Kent coast (if not French coast) is in sight, then turn to make the approach along the estuary. Total flight time can be an hour and a half, a third of which is going past LCY and then back again. If LCY is on westerlies, even including a spin round SE London, the flight time can be 30-40% shorter than the Grand Tour of Kentish Weald.
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I see that, right now, Flybe from Belfast has made a huge loop around Colchester and North Kent, with apparently nothing ahead (attachment). It's turning onto an easterly approach over Central London. Any ideas what the advantage is over the former routing overhead Luton and Lambourne ?
That aircraft heading ENE overhead Canterbury is an inbound arrival from ... Dublin !
That aircraft heading ENE overhead Canterbury is an inbound arrival from ... Dublin !
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Knew we'd discussed this earlier but took a while to find the thread:
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...130-miles.html
BA IoM to LCY was typically 55 minutes; now it takes 1hr10 and even more if they are on Easterlies.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...130-miles.html
BA IoM to LCY was typically 55 minutes; now it takes 1hr10 and even more if they are on Easterlies.
Thread Starter
I see the other post refers to NATS saying "aircraft can stay higher for longer". That's just not true. Our Manston sightseeing trip (above) had us heading out over the lower Thames Estuary so low and slow that I thought we were lining up to strafe the wind turbines that are out in the shallows there. And that was on the OUTBOUND from Southend to overhead Manston.