Euromanx- 2
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Rumoured Routes!!!
Mornin' all.....let's all speculate where 5 new routes from IOM could be...
LTN....most obvious choice after being given up by RE & BA
CWL....unserved for many years after being abandoned by JE
and now I'm struggling to think of anymore but gossip from next door to the Snug mentioned European routes.....surely not CDG again but maybe AMS to offer alternative connections to the world wide yonder which will be in demand once the BA through traffic disappears...
Any more ideas anybody?
LTN....most obvious choice after being given up by RE & BA
CWL....unserved for many years after being abandoned by JE
and now I'm struggling to think of anymore but gossip from next door to the Snug mentioned European routes.....surely not CDG again but maybe AMS to offer alternative connections to the world wide yonder which will be in demand once the BA through traffic disappears...
Any more ideas anybody?
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Well from what ive heard LTN is very much on the cards from the IOM, and maybe more depending on the Flybe announcement.
I heard some routes from LPL aswell. With the current fleet it is possible to do a few here and there if the schedule and a/c are moved around a bit.
If EMX acquire another a/c, that could be based in LPL. Ireland is covered, maybe the odd domestic route.
I heard some routes from LPL aswell. With the current fleet it is possible to do a few here and there if the schedule and a/c are moved around a bit.
If EMX acquire another a/c, that could be based in LPL. Ireland is covered, maybe the odd domestic route.
Last edited by EMX81L; 25th Feb 2007 at 11:39.
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dwlpl - GLA and EDI out of the IOM i think is a no go, Scotland is covered by Loganair who are adding more flights for the summer, would be a dangerous move for EMX i think. GLA went very quiet when EMX did it in 2005. However, out of LPL, those could work very well. BHD might be good aswell. Fair comment, Flybe come off the route weekdays, but i believe it was popular on the whole. maybe southern england somewhere aswell?
RE72 - I think EMX would want to try and expand their fleet instead of lease in. But if there are no a/c options available it might be a good move. As I mentioned not to long ago, 2 BA D8-300 may be available to EMX post Flybe/BACon acquisition, so u never know
RE72 - I think EMX would want to try and expand their fleet instead of lease in. But if there are no a/c options available it might be a good move. As I mentioned not to long ago, 2 BA D8-300 may be available to EMX post Flybe/BACon acquisition, so u never know
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Speculation
"LTN....most obvious choice after being given up by RE & BA"
Why?? LTN is not the best of routes at all.. BA was running it with only 20-40 pax at best in the last year of the service, REA have dumped it, ok the planes were full but the only way they could do that was due to the low fares... why would you want to pay £100-£150 for IOM-LTN-IOM then pay £50 for LTN-AGP-LTN.. There is no sense in that at all, passengers just won’t pay it.
Thinking outside the box, and this is only a theory. If flybe are going to loose the -300's and EMX were to obtain a few, that would not hurt. Would i choose new routes off the island? Nope! There are too many routes and airlines already. I would go and tap into another market on routes that nobody else operates.. Where or what i do not know. Or wish to speculate on....
I don’t think that EMX would go for a -400... They have spent the last 2 years working hard and spent lots of cash in stabilizing the -300 fleet and now offer a very stable but flexible programme which is 900% better than it was with a multi fleet.
Why go back to a multi fleet doesn’t make sense. We know that Flybe would like to stream there fleet as soon as they can. So they should off load the -300 to EMX and with a large enough fleet of -300's it surely will become viable to buy they hangar as well....
My 2 cents.
BB
Why?? LTN is not the best of routes at all.. BA was running it with only 20-40 pax at best in the last year of the service, REA have dumped it, ok the planes were full but the only way they could do that was due to the low fares... why would you want to pay £100-£150 for IOM-LTN-IOM then pay £50 for LTN-AGP-LTN.. There is no sense in that at all, passengers just won’t pay it.
Thinking outside the box, and this is only a theory. If flybe are going to loose the -300's and EMX were to obtain a few, that would not hurt. Would i choose new routes off the island? Nope! There are too many routes and airlines already. I would go and tap into another market on routes that nobody else operates.. Where or what i do not know. Or wish to speculate on....
I don’t think that EMX would go for a -400... They have spent the last 2 years working hard and spent lots of cash in stabilizing the -300 fleet and now offer a very stable but flexible programme which is 900% better than it was with a multi fleet.
Why go back to a multi fleet doesn’t make sense. We know that Flybe would like to stream there fleet as soon as they can. So they should off load the -300 to EMX and with a large enough fleet of -300's it surely will become viable to buy they hangar as well....
My 2 cents.
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Well, Hansol, let's just see how 'ballsy' Euromanx are prepared to be. As now appears to be the case that this flybe/BA deal will go through (although I think it might not be as comprehensive a take over as was first envisaged and there could be some discards) there is going to be a big change in the scenery on Fraggle and if ever there was an opprtunity for Euromanx to assert itself as the self styled 'national airline' this is it. But I don't think their balls or specifically those of the Euromanx boss are big enough to take on flybe as and when they move in. A concerted push on LGW with a 400 while flybe sort their act out that could take some time during the inevitable disruption post take over could give them the route in the long run.
HBB - a 400 wouldn't be multi fleeting surely - just a bigger dash alongside some smaller ones. Same manufacturer, can't be too differnet to fly. To try and set up on the mainland where nobody has heard of you is risky even if it they are on new routes - even more risky. Didn't that happen in Ireland last year on uncpompeted routes?
Agree with HBB about the Luton route, a no go but up the aggro on some of the operators already on Fraggle. That takes balls but could pay dividends.
HBB - a 400 wouldn't be multi fleeting surely - just a bigger dash alongside some smaller ones. Same manufacturer, can't be too differnet to fly. To try and set up on the mainland where nobody has heard of you is risky even if it they are on new routes - even more risky. Didn't that happen in Ireland last year on uncpompeted routes?
Agree with HBB about the Luton route, a no go but up the aggro on some of the operators already on Fraggle. That takes balls but could pay dividends.
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All this of course assumes that EMX have the ability and financial liquidity to expand. If I had invested in them (which I have not) I would now be wanting a return on that investment, not more expansion and the costs associated with that. There is the constant rumour that they are still going through money rapidly but if they cannot make money now they never will.
The most likely scenario, sadly for passengers, is some sort of deal with Flybe regarding Manchester which in the short term at least (crew shortage) would probably suit Flybe.
Hopefully Flybe will commit themselves to the IOM and at least provide some semblance of competition. Even when they pulled out last time they did keep the BHX route.
What we do not need is another round of unsustainable expansion from EMX. They have done a pretty good job of repairing their reputation over the past 18 months and it would be a shame to spoil it now
The most likely scenario, sadly for passengers, is some sort of deal with Flybe regarding Manchester which in the short term at least (crew shortage) would probably suit Flybe.
Hopefully Flybe will commit themselves to the IOM and at least provide some semblance of competition. Even when they pulled out last time they did keep the BHX route.
What we do not need is another round of unsustainable expansion from EMX. They have done a pretty good job of repairing their reputation over the past 18 months and it would be a shame to spoil it now
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I'm sure the resident Manx avaition experts will correct me but I cannot recall that Flybe flew the Birmingham route until after they withdrew from the Island.
The flybe/BACON merger topic certainly suggests that the bumper crop of pilots flybe had expected to land in their lap has been decimated and must raise questions about just how much of the former BACON system they are able to operate. If that is the case then priorities have to be established and just where on the list would the Isle of Man feature?
I would still take a pop at some of the oprators in my own back yard before venturing into unknown territory.
The flybe/BACON merger topic certainly suggests that the bumper crop of pilots flybe had expected to land in their lap has been decimated and must raise questions about just how much of the former BACON system they are able to operate. If that is the case then priorities have to be established and just where on the list would the Isle of Man feature?
I would still take a pop at some of the oprators in my own back yard before venturing into unknown territory.
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Don't forget though, that of all the Bacon bases they're going to get, the IOM is the one place where they would have no shortage of skippers (the most needed seat) available. Enough for three aircraft TOMORROW. F/O's are relatively easy to get, probably from the other resident operators in part and cabin crew numbers could be swelled quickly, especially if they went to 2 on the 146 to help out.
Then again, who knows.
Sorry for interupting on someone else's thread.
My own take is that as the new BA offshoot is so dependant on the RBS, the lean from them will soften Flybe's attack. Possibly.
I would like to see the Redtails prosper (believe it or not). I think the LCY route is the key, and if they concentrate on that, gain the Manchester from Flybe and be circumspect in Flybe storming in to blow them away on the LPL, then the two dashes would do fine in creating a stable profitable base on which to pay back the huge debt to the RBS.
However, right now the profiteering on the Liverpool route is causing some ripples in Government and in the public at large. Price adjustments appear to be a case of leg-lifting and screwing the passengers now the SeaCat is U/S.
Any company would do it, only Emx don't seem to be very subtle as letters in the Examiner see to be appearing frequently. The truism is that from the Rock, competed routes cannot be profitable for either competitor. No competed route has ever been, and Flybe have more resources to fight than anyone else.
As to LTN. Crap route, crap airport. The only thing that sustained it was the time of the rotation suiting leisure and commuting longhaul crews. The mid morning LGW is already very sucessful and we'll need a larger 146 very soon to accomodate demand. If we can fill it in February......
Here's to a quick cat fight and a long term settlement and stability for all the local airlines and those local staff that depend on them for employment and happiness. Oh, and may the new Cheif Minister choke on his own stupidity for causing all this hastle in the first place. Stick to selling plugs and light bulbs,Tony, it's called the Peter Principle. Look it up on Google if you get the chance.
Then again, who knows.
Sorry for interupting on someone else's thread.
My own take is that as the new BA offshoot is so dependant on the RBS, the lean from them will soften Flybe's attack. Possibly.
I would like to see the Redtails prosper (believe it or not). I think the LCY route is the key, and if they concentrate on that, gain the Manchester from Flybe and be circumspect in Flybe storming in to blow them away on the LPL, then the two dashes would do fine in creating a stable profitable base on which to pay back the huge debt to the RBS.
However, right now the profiteering on the Liverpool route is causing some ripples in Government and in the public at large. Price adjustments appear to be a case of leg-lifting and screwing the passengers now the SeaCat is U/S.
Any company would do it, only Emx don't seem to be very subtle as letters in the Examiner see to be appearing frequently. The truism is that from the Rock, competed routes cannot be profitable for either competitor. No competed route has ever been, and Flybe have more resources to fight than anyone else.
As to LTN. Crap route, crap airport. The only thing that sustained it was the time of the rotation suiting leisure and commuting longhaul crews. The mid morning LGW is already very sucessful and we'll need a larger 146 very soon to accomodate demand. If we can fill it in February......
Here's to a quick cat fight and a long term settlement and stability for all the local airlines and those local staff that depend on them for employment and happiness. Oh, and may the new Cheif Minister choke on his own stupidity for causing all this hastle in the first place. Stick to selling plugs and light bulbs,Tony, it's called the Peter Principle. Look it up on Google if you get the chance.
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I know I may sound a little one-sided, because of my Pprune name, but could it be BLK? Was speculation a while ago about counteracting Manx2 by attacking them on their own routes.
Could be.
LPL- They definately need these domestic routes!
Could be.
LPL- They definately need these domestic routes!
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Yes your right san.
It will take a few days for the conversion week of ground school and Sim. But looking at the 2 it could just be that on a Wednesday your flying a 400 and Thursday in the 300...
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1106176/M/ 300
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1079909/M/ 400
Yes EMX did try a few things that didn’t work out as they had of thought. But the airlines direction has changed very much since then. As long as they start properly with lots of forethought and planning it could work. Nothing ventured anything gained...
But thinking about this why not just becomes part of the flybe brand? If were taking there aircraft (rumour) they would probably do the maintence especially if it is the 400... Keep them painted in flybe colours if indeed a 400 from flybe was on the cards and operate the fare structure... this is certainly a time for solidarity.
This speculation is becoming funny though... how about a 737-BBJ IOM-EWR??
Manx crab you make a good Point on the return of investment.
I’m done speculating
BB
It will take a few days for the conversion week of ground school and Sim. But looking at the 2 it could just be that on a Wednesday your flying a 400 and Thursday in the 300...
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1106176/M/ 300
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1079909/M/ 400
Yes EMX did try a few things that didn’t work out as they had of thought. But the airlines direction has changed very much since then. As long as they start properly with lots of forethought and planning it could work. Nothing ventured anything gained...
But thinking about this why not just becomes part of the flybe brand? If were taking there aircraft (rumour) they would probably do the maintence especially if it is the 400... Keep them painted in flybe colours if indeed a 400 from flybe was on the cards and operate the fare structure... this is certainly a time for solidarity.
This speculation is becoming funny though... how about a 737-BBJ IOM-EWR??
Manx crab you make a good Point on the return of investment.
I’m done speculating
BB
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San Expiry
Putting my anorak on for a moment, FLYBE were operating BHX in Dec'04 just before they handed the rest to EMX, not sure when they started the route though, right anorak off.
A lot of this depends on how interested FLYBE are in the IOM. Perhaps EMX will let FLYBE have Manchester in return for them staying off the LPL route. The LPL route does have the guaranteed business of the hospital patients which must be a good revenue source The airport figures suggest that they are largely one passenger pool and this could be a way to provide price competition without the normal disastrous results. But will FLYBE be that interested, it will have a lot on its plate when/if the takeover of BACON goes ahead. You can be pretty sure that EMX will have been trying to find out what FLYBE's thought are.
Anotherflapoperator
You have needed a bigger aircraft since your far sighted management got rid of GMIMA
Putting my anorak on for a moment, FLYBE were operating BHX in Dec'04 just before they handed the rest to EMX, not sure when they started the route though, right anorak off.
A lot of this depends on how interested FLYBE are in the IOM. Perhaps EMX will let FLYBE have Manchester in return for them staying off the LPL route. The LPL route does have the guaranteed business of the hospital patients which must be a good revenue source The airport figures suggest that they are largely one passenger pool and this could be a way to provide price competition without the normal disastrous results. But will FLYBE be that interested, it will have a lot on its plate when/if the takeover of BACON goes ahead. You can be pretty sure that EMX will have been trying to find out what FLYBE's thought are.
Anotherflapoperator
You have needed a bigger aircraft since your far sighted management got rid of GMIMA
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How about, deal with Flybe on MAN, take over their Dash, keep the ATR72 from Arann and send the 200 and 300 back to the lease holders (they must be due a return), this way nothing would change except the aircraft lease holders, swop Bombardier for Arann and Flybe. To expand would be suicide. A second Liverpool base might work though.
Paxing All Over The World
OE-HBB
This pax has done and would again!
When you live near to LTN and have been using the route since it started (15 years?) then it is attractive. My current alternative (and I am doing it next week) is to tak a train to LGW. Then walk to the shuttle to get to the North and then walk for bloomin' ages to get to the 146/Dash gates. It adds more than an hour each way and, even with the lower air fare, the overall cost is similar to going to my local field.
Don't talk about STN that is a 45 minute hike round the M25/M11 that is fraught with aggro and possible delays and LCY is diametrically the other side of London.
... why would you want to pay £100-£150 for IOM-LTN-IOM then pay £50 for LTN-AGP-LTN.. There is no sense in that at all, passengers just won’t pay it.
When you live near to LTN and have been using the route since it started (15 years?) then it is attractive. My current alternative (and I am doing it next week) is to tak a train to LGW. Then walk to the shuttle to get to the North and then walk for bloomin' ages to get to the 146/Dash gates. It adds more than an hour each way and, even with the lower air fare, the overall cost is similar to going to my local field.
Don't talk about STN that is a 45 minute hike round the M25/M11 that is fraught with aggro and possible delays and LCY is diametrically the other side of London.