KLM
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I thought it was bad enough with the majors in the USA doing this. It's par for the course with LCCs but when carriers of KLM's stature decide to go down this road, others will follow and yet another deconstruction of a long time industry standard will disappear. The industry is really going downhill fast now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
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For goodness sake, just because you have to pay for a bag doesn't really mean the industry is going downhill fast. Some people are still stuck in the old traditional ways... the industry is revolutionising.
I've always thought that extra charges for checked-in bags is a fair structure. The people who are costing the airline more to transport them by adding extra weight to the aircraft (so increasinf fuel use and cost) and increasing the risk of delays get charged more.
It encourages people to be more respinsible travellers. The people who travel more responsibly, eg. by avoiding checked-in bags when they are only travelling for a short time, being more cost, time and environmentally efficient are rewarded with a lower fare.
I've always thought that extra charges for checked-in bags is a fair structure. The people who are costing the airline more to transport them by adding extra weight to the aircraft (so increasinf fuel use and cost) and increasing the risk of delays get charged more.
It encourages people to be more respinsible travellers. The people who travel more responsibly, eg. by avoiding checked-in bags when they are only travelling for a short time, being more cost, time and environmentally efficient are rewarded with a lower fare.
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It encourages people to be more respinsible travellers. The people who travel more responsibly, eg. by avoiding checked-in bags when they are only travelling for a short time, being more cost, time and environmentally efficient are rewarded with a lower fare.
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The person next to you may have just walked on board and sat down, While your 22kg checked baggage has had to be processed by maybe 2 to 3 people passed though security transported to the aircraft loaded into the hold.
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The person next to you may have just walked on board and sat down, While your 22kg checked baggage has had to be processed by maybe 2 to 3 people passed though security transported to the aircraft loaded into the hold.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Checked baggage charges
How is this going to work? I am booked with KLM from BHX to Rio de Janeiro in May routing via Amsterdam, essentially a long haul flight. As I have already booked I would not think this charge would apply to me, but if i booked next week, would it?
Could be a recipe for disaster: having to pay for ONE checked bag to Amsterdam, and then what? Two bags up to 23kilo plus a carry-on. How much will that cost?
Could be a recipe for disaster: having to pay for ONE checked bag to Amsterdam, and then what? Two bags up to 23kilo plus a carry-on. How much will that cost?
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Obesity isn't really as avoidable as a checked-in bag that many, with some responsibilty, could do without.
How many people flying with Ryanair or EasyJet for instance will take a 20kg each? Probably not a lot! We take a max of 2 20kg and at a push, 3 15kg bags between 4 people (2 male, 2 female) for 2 weeks away because, like may people, we won't pay extra for luggage we realistically can manage without.
Given the chance to have a 22kg bag each for no extra cost, like near enough every person on the planet, we'd probably take advantage of the luxury or even feel obliged to get the value out of the total cost. But we can easily manage with much less and the charges make us more repsonsible, and if everybody could do that, think how much uneccessary weight, time and money they'd save!
How many people flying with Ryanair or EasyJet for instance will take a 20kg each? Probably not a lot! We take a max of 2 20kg and at a push, 3 15kg bags between 4 people (2 male, 2 female) for 2 weeks away because, like may people, we won't pay extra for luggage we realistically can manage without.
Given the chance to have a 22kg bag each for no extra cost, like near enough every person on the planet, we'd probably take advantage of the luxury or even feel obliged to get the value out of the total cost. But we can easily manage with much less and the charges make us more repsonsible, and if everybody could do that, think how much uneccessary weight, time and money they'd save!
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Relax. Apparently it is still free for all Flying Blue members regardless of their status, so one only has to enroll with their FFP (at least for starters, maybe it is only an incentive to push up membership numbers).
Join Date: Sep 2012
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More utter cr@p from FRatSTN
I am using my family as an example of many. You hear about families all the time flying with an airline like FR and EZY who are concious about the amount of luggage they take to avoid the extra cost. In essence, people take less luggage and the airlines saves money. So unless you have any good reason why you feel that's not the case, then feel free to discuss!
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Because KLM is not an LCC and should not allow itself to descend to that level. You're obviously a great admirer of RYR (probably an employee of theirs) and if you check my initial post I accepted that it's par for the course with LCCs. I use LCCs too (although arguably the more up market examples) and if I do I go with the flow. My point is that if legacy carriers such as KLM feel the need to go the same route as the LCCs instead of being a little more inovative, than as far as I'm concerned the industry IS going down the drain.
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May I also point out that the original LCC, Southwest Airlines, which recently announced its 40th consecutive year of profitable operations, continues to include a free checked bag allowance.
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It's a bit pointless using Southwest Airlines as a comparison. They are in a completly different market and one where different strategies have been adopted.
Charging economy passengers for a checked in bag on short-haul flights doesn't now make KLM an LCC. Package holiday and charter flights like Thomson charge for bags and they are not accussed of turning into LCCs. Even Jet2 considers itself as a "cost concious lesiure airline" although in fairness is still generally seen as an LCC.
There is more than just checked-in bag costs to and LCC. They have a basic service, charge extras for any possible extra service they can think of, eg. priority boarding, reserved seating or SMS text confirmation and have cost saving/profit making initiatives like smaller hold baggage allowances and have quick turnaround times to maximise aircraft flying time etc etc etc...
With KLM, customers can still expect to get the service and flying experince they expect from an national flag carrier. They will have a comfortable flight, civilised boarding system and more importantly, still offer different classes and will always maintain a hub with worldwide connections in Amsterdam, unlike the vast majority of LCC's who operate with the point-to-point model.
KLM is still a world apart from a European LCC and KLM, Air France, BA etc. are never going to become quite like Ryanair and EasyJet.
And by the way, no, I don't work for Ryanair.
Charging economy passengers for a checked in bag on short-haul flights doesn't now make KLM an LCC. Package holiday and charter flights like Thomson charge for bags and they are not accussed of turning into LCCs. Even Jet2 considers itself as a "cost concious lesiure airline" although in fairness is still generally seen as an LCC.
There is more than just checked-in bag costs to and LCC. They have a basic service, charge extras for any possible extra service they can think of, eg. priority boarding, reserved seating or SMS text confirmation and have cost saving/profit making initiatives like smaller hold baggage allowances and have quick turnaround times to maximise aircraft flying time etc etc etc...
With KLM, customers can still expect to get the service and flying experince they expect from an national flag carrier. They will have a comfortable flight, civilised boarding system and more importantly, still offer different classes and will always maintain a hub with worldwide connections in Amsterdam, unlike the vast majority of LCC's who operate with the point-to-point model.
KLM is still a world apart from a European LCC and KLM, Air France, BA etc. are never going to become quite like Ryanair and EasyJet.
And by the way, no, I don't work for Ryanair.
Last edited by FRatSTN; 14th Feb 2013 at 15:38.
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Just searched for a KLM european ticket in September. The very cheap = good value ticket, includes 23kgs hold baggage and 10kgs hand baggage. That, plus the fact that you take 2 pieces of hand baggage e.g. tax-free or computer, and a coat or umbrella etc. I'm not sure where this debate has come from. I'm sure, if the route was available with either of the main LoCo's, they could not match the service like for like. In my experience the LoCo's usually win if you travel hand baggage only. However, HiCo carriers usually have more flights per day, and daily, on the major routes, and thus a choice of times, often at more convenient ones. This IMHO has a value too in the overall cost. Having to check in at 05.00 on a holiday and coming home at 01.00 is often not worth the €50 you might save. OK a family could be €200, but knackered kids and wife are a holiday killer. The comparison between the LoCo's and traditional carriers really brings the truth about cost and value into stark reality.
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Hotel Tango
Your views are valid. Unfortunately, FR/STN is one of their zealots. They took a beating yesterday and, true to form, lash out at any and everything.
Can you image if they had taken over Aer Lingus, what I call a proper airline!
Your views are valid. Unfortunately, FR/STN is one of their zealots. They took a beating yesterday and, true to form, lash out at any and everything.
Can you image if they had taken over Aer Lingus, what I call a proper airline!